IN-Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #52

[Theforeigner]

My first post. Yesterday I reviewed the first 25 pages of the Scanner Traffic for this crime. I also have reviewed the first 15 pages of Thread #1. I have yet to see any mention of two important (I believe) clues that may help steer us in a forward direction. Clue One-Barn Finds and Professional Treasure Hunters have popularized a sport for amateurs. A Good Reason to be exploring that area. What artifacts lie hidden along that creek? What antiquities can be dug up in those woods and fields? Have any 'relic hunters' been requesting permission to explore? Have any railroad artifacts been dug up? That bridge and that area are considered 'Historic' and someone may have wanted extra attention to be placed on saving the bridge...Just like Civil War Battlefields. Clue Two- An individual opinion from Clue One should suffice. I hope this was correctly placed in the thread and without redundancy. Thanks.

Always kind of frustrating when someone present one riddle claiming that it would probably help solve another riddle :thinking:

 

[Yvettea]

<snipped for emphasis>That bridge and that area are considered 'Historic' and someone may have wanted extra attention to be placed on saving the bridge.

I've wondered this also as well as the opposite. Someone may have seen it in their best interest to throw some negative attention there. A no-bridge enthusiast so to speak.

 

[Idareyato]

Theforiegner- Sorry. I meant that the next clue should be someone else's that thinks of something from mine, but had not thought of it yet. Besides, these crimes are worrisome enough when evidence is at the mercy of the killer. Okay?

 

[Floridian]

Always kind of frustrating when someone present one riddle claiming that it would probably help solve another riddle :thinking:

don't feel bad, because I don't get riddles either

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[EmmaRose]

Does having a heinous crime happen on or near your property reduce the value of it?

 

[WebSight]

Theforiegner- Sorry. I meant that the next clue should be someone else's that thinks of something from mine, but had not thought of it yet. Besides, these crimes are worrisome enough when evidence is at the mercy of the killer. Okay?

Idareyouto, when you want to reply to someone's question or you want to bounce off another post to add your thoughts to theirs, use the "reply with quote" feature on the bottom right. That way we all know what you are referring to or who you are answering.:fence:

 

[HockeyMom330]

Using a common sense approach is difficult in this situation, BUT....What purpose would a person be in that area that did not belong with the community? What alibi would be used if BG had been questioned by someone? He was too well dressed to be vagrant. He is too unrecognized to be local. (my opinions). If he had ill-intent from the beginning to 'case' the area for artifacts he could steal and sell as say 'bottle-collectors' do, and it escalated with the opportunity to snuff out life instead---just an angle of my judgement in looking at humanity.

Is there a bus station close by, or truck stop? Perhaps BG is not homeless, but somewhat transient. It is doubtful he works a 9-5 office job, based on him being on the trails on a Monday afternoon--unless he called in sick or skipped work that day. I think all employers should check their records to see who was absent on Feb 13th and/or 14th.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Using a common sense approach is difficult in this situation, BUT....What purpose would a person be in that area that did not belong with the community? What alibi would be used if BG had been questioned by someone? He was too well dressed to be vagrant. He is too unrecognized to be local. (my opinions). If he had ill-intent from the beginning to 'case' the area for artifacts he could steal and sell as say 'bottle-collectors' do, and it escalated with the opportunity to snuff out life instead---just an angle of my judgement in looking at humanity.

We don't know if he was unrecognized. It is quite likely citizens submitted tips about the right guy. There's just so many tips to process and unless police find evidence, they can't arrest on tips.

Here in Michigan in the case of Jeffrey Willis, LE followed up on a tip on the right guy but then let him go bc he convinced them he had just had his van professionally cleaned bc he didn't like the smell of smoke previous owners left behind. In actuality, he was likely cleaning it bc it was used in a murder. He's now suspected in several deaths before and after that point.




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[Bemused]

Does having a heinous crime happen on or near your property reduce the value of it?

Where I live you are legally required to disclose if any death has occurred on your property in the past three years. My realtor neighbor said it's due to a large ethnic population who are superstitious, but idk. I do know it's required by law.

 

[legman]

Feel free to scroll past all of this, I just need to vent a bit...

I haven't been very critical of LE in this case because it's clear that they care about the case and are working hard towards solving it. They should also be applauded for seeking out help from the FBI and other outside agencies so early on. However, my hope that they had a good amount of evidence that they weren't releasing diminishes more and more each day. I don't think they have much and if they do, it obviously hasn't been useful yet or won't be useful until they get the right tip/break. It makes me question the initial handling of the case, because it seems to me like they weren't urgent enough when the girls went missing and that they didn't act quickly enough on the evidence that they found once the bodies were discovered. It's obviously all my opinion, because we don't actually know much of anything about this case, but I don't think they acted quickly enough because this is a small town and it's not like they have anything else going on when two local teens go missing. If this was a town of even 15,000 I wouldn't expect the police to just drop everything to find teens who may or may not be missing (you know, maybe they lost track of time, went on an adventure, etc.), but Delphi is tiny! I can't imagine there was something more important than finding these two, especially when they had a very clear time frame as to when they were supposed to be picked up.

As for any info/evidence at the crime scene, initially I thought that they were strategically releasing info as they needed to because it seemed like they had things under control, but looking back I'm not so sure. First, they didn't immediately say that it was a homicide. Then they released the photo but didn't say where it came from or if the person was a suspect. Then we find out that it came from the phone and that they considered him to be involved. Then we get the audio and then nothing other than a few search warrants until they put on a show serving the SW at RL's property. But then nothing came from that. Each thing on it's own can be explained away pretty easily as being strategic from LE's perspective, but all of them together and some questions can arise about the police work. What did they know at the time of releasing each piece of evidence to the public and why did they release it in the way that they did?

I also have to question the local media, because it doesn't seem like they are really pressing LE for anything. I am still of the belief that the overall strategy is a good one and don't think that they should release things like COD or more audio/video/images (well maybe if they had a little more that seems innocuous out of context), but why can't we get a verified timeline or a clear statement on whether or not there is DNA? The media did well in the beginning, but I think we are past the point of just sitting around and waiting for LE to keep releasing statements that amount to very little for the public and that some investigative journalism should really be done rather than just the pieces for the evening news and small updates on Twitter (which is all you probably need when the case is fresh, but I'll argue that that time is quickly running out if it hasn't already).

I come from a small town where these kind of things just don't happen, so I can definitely understand the sort of dynamics they are dealing with and I don't want to be overly critical of the police, especially because they are clearly dedicated to this case and that they had the presence of mind to include other agencies from the start, but they can't be immune to criticism either. I guess the point of this post is that when we are kept in the dark like this, it requires the public to place a lot of trust in LE (really a blind trust) and while they have certainly done enough to earn it for awhile, they don't really have it anymore IMO. That's not to say I have no confidence in them, but it's no longer at or near 100% like it was for so many weeks. I will say, as frustrating as it is, that they should be praised for completely locking down on leaks, because it seems like almost nothing has gotten out that they didn't want out which is impressive for such a high profile case in such a small town.

Anyways... just had to get that out (and all of it is just my opinion, especially because we know so little) as I have just been feeling a little less hopeful with this case over the last week or so. It looks like it is going to need that one big breakthrough that comes out of nowhere, but that is something that happens so it's not completely hopeless!

 

[Hazelnutty]

Does having a heinous crime happen on or near your property reduce the value of it?

I like this question. Looking forward to an educated answer

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[Idareyato]

Idareyouto, when you want to reply to someone's question or you want to bounce off another post to add your thoughts to theirs, use the "reply with quote" feature on the bottom right. That way we all know what you are referring to or who you are answering.:fence:

Understood. Thanks.

 

[Eileen730]

Just think LE felt very sure the pic was going to get the guy.

 

[whiskers]

Whoever BG is, he has a thick head of hair and also facial hair similar to a goatee.

Whether we see hair or a hat on his head, you can make out very thick hair.

So we go back to what LE originally said: Has someone changed their appearance?

If he's local, someone has to recognize a man with such thick hair suddenly went to a buzz cut and removed facial hair.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

Feel free to scroll past all of this, I just need to vent a bit...

I haven't been very critical of LE in this case because it's clear that they care about the case and our working hard towards solving it. They should also be applauded for seeking out help from the FBI and other outside agencies so early on. However, my hope that they had a good amount of evidence that they weren't releasing diminishes more and more each day. I don't think they have much and if they do, it obviously hasn't been useful yet or won't be useful until they get the right tip/break. It makes me question the initial handling of the case, because it seems to me like they weren't urgent enough when the girls went missing and that they didn't act quickly enough on the evidence that they found once the bodies were discovered. It's obviously all my opinion, because we don't actually know much of anything about this case, but I don't think they acted quickly enough because this is a small town and it's not like they have anything else going on when two local teens go missing. If this was a town of even 15,000 I wouldn't expect the police to just drop everything to find teens who may or may not be missing (you know, maybe they lost track of time, went on an adventure, etc.), but Delphi is tiny! I can't imagine there was something more important than finding these two, especially when they had a very clear time frame as to when they were supposed to be picked up.

As for any info/evidence at the crime scene, initially I thought that they were strategically releasing info as they needed to because it seemed like they had things under control, but looking back I'm not so sure. First, they didn't immediately say that it was a homicide. Then they released the photo but didn't say where it came from or if the person was a suspect. Then we find out that it came from the phone and that they considered him to be involved. Then we get the audio and then nothing other than a few search warrants until they put on a show serving the SW at RL's property. But then nothing came from that. Each thing on it's own can be explained away pretty easily as being strategic from LE's perspective, but all of them together and some questions can arise about the police work. What did they know at the time of releasing each piece of evidence to the public and why did they release it in the way that they did?

I also have to question the local media, because it doesn't seem like they are really pressing LE for anything. I am still of the belief that the overall strategy is a good one and don't think that they should release things like COD or more audio/video/images (well maybe if they had a little more that seems innocuous out of context), but why can't we get a verified timeline or a clear statement on whether or not there is DNA? The media did well in the beginning, but I think we are past the point of just sitting around and waiting for LE to keep releasing statements that amount to very little for the public and that some investigative journalism should really be done rather than just the pieces for the evening news and small updates on Twitter (which is all you probably need when the case is fresh, but I'll argue that that time is quickly running out if it hasn't already).

I come from a small town where these kind of things just don't happen, so I can definitely understand the sort of dynamics they are dealing with and I don't want to be overly critical of the police, especially because they are clearly dedicated to this case and that they had the presence of mind to include other agencies from the start, but they can't be immune to criticism either. I guess the point of this post is that when we are kept in the dark like this, it requires the public to place a lot of trust in LE (really a blind trust) and while they have certainly done enough to earn it for awhile, they don't really have it anymore IMO. That's not to say I have no confidence in them, but it's no longer at or near 100% like it was for so many weeks. I will say, as frustrating as it is, that they should be praised for completely locking down on leaks, because it seems like almost nothing has gotten out that they didn't want out which is impressive for such a high profile case in such a small town.

Anyways... just had to get that out (and all of it is just my opinion, especially because we know so little) as I have just been feeling a little less hopeful with this case over the last week or so. It looks like it is going to need that one big breakthrough that comes out of nowhere, but that is something that happens so it's not completely hopeless!

As far as emotions go,I think this is one of the best posts I've seen here.

 

[Jethro4WS]

My first post. Yesterday I reviewed the first 25 pages of the Scanner Traffic for this crime. I also have reviewed the first 15 pages of Thread #1. I have yet to see any mention of two important (I believe) clues that may help steer us in a forward direction. Clue One-Barn Finds and Professional Treasure Hunters have popularized a sport for amateurs. A Good Reason to be exploring that area. What artifacts lie hidden along that creek? What antiquities can be dug up in those woods and fields? Have any 'relic hunters' been requesting permission to explore? Have any railroad artifacts been dug up? That bridge and that area are considered 'Historic' and someone may have wanted extra attention to be placed on saving the bridge...Just like Civil War Battlefields. Clue Two- An individual opinion from Clue One should suffice. I hope this was correctly placed in the thread and without redundancy. Thanks.

Welcome to Websleuths!

In that area I think it is possible to find things of Native American origin perhaps along a creek or river (or even in a creek or river itself). I doubt so much in the fields since at one time only a little over 200 years ago much of Indiana was dense forest. And that would have been cut down, stumps removed, and the land plowed many, many times over.

http://woodlandsteward.squarespace.com/storage/past-issues/indiana's forest.htm

A major Native American trade route ran through the vicinity of Delphi.

http://faculty.weber.edu/kmackay/history 4110 unit 1.asp

As far as railroad stuff perhaps railroad spikes or even tools could be found. As well as anything that could have fallen from a train. I do expect that Barn Finds kind of things would be much more common but so much depends on people hanging onto things.

It is possible for someone that has such an interest and has done some research might think they could find things of interest or value (even if the only value is in finding it for themselves). Much like fossil hunters, you don't know what you might find, if anything, until you explore.

Where I come from there was an abandoned mining town the forests reclaimed - the post office, school, bank, row houses, etc. could be seen - and you could find things in the area such a town of mining related items, even cups and dishes, the abandoned town garbage dump had items of days long past such as toys and household items. Most of the structures were brick and those were torn down later to reclaim the bricks because there is a market for old bricks. In the old wood framed buildings (or what was left of them) if you opened the walls they were often lined with newspaper and so you could get whole newspapers (in so-so condition but readable mostly).

 

[Idareyato]

Feel free to scroll past all of this, I just need to vent a bit...

I haven't been very critical of LE in this case because it's clear that they care about the case and are working hard towards solving it. They should also be applauded for seeking out help from the FBI and other outside agencies so early on. However, my hope that they had a good amount of evidence that they weren't releasing diminishes more and more each day. I don't think they have much and if they do, it obviously hasn't been useful yet or won't be useful until they get the right tip/break. It makes me question the initial handling of the case, because it seems to me like they weren't urgent enough when the girls went missing and that they didn't act quickly enough on the evidence that they found once the bodies were discovered. It's obviously all my opinion, because we don't actually know much of anything about this case, but I don't think they acted quickly enough because this is a small town and it's not like they have anything else going on when two local teens go missing. If this was a town of even 15,000 I wouldn't expect the police to just drop everything to find teens who may or may not be missing (you know, maybe they lost track of time, went on an adventure, etc.), but Delphi is tiny! I can't imagine there was something more important than finding these two, especially when they had a very clear time frame as to when they were supposed to be picked up.

As for any info/evidence at the crime scene, initially I thought that they were strategically releasing info as they needed to because it seemed like they had things under control, but looking back I'm not so sure. First, they didn't immediately say that it was a homicide. Then they released the photo but didn't say where it came from or if the person was a suspect. Then we find out that it came from the phone and that they considered him to be involved. Then we get the audio and then nothing other than a few search warrants until they put on a show serving the SW at RL's property. But then nothing came from that. Each thing on it's own can be explained away pretty easily as being strategic from LE's perspective, but all of them together and some questions can arise about the police work. What did they know at the time of releasing each piece of evidence to the public and why did they release it in the way that they did?

I also have to question the local media, because it doesn't seem like they are really pressing LE for anything. I am still of the belief that the overall strategy is a good one and don't think that they should release things like COD or more audio/video/images (well maybe if they had a little more that seems innocuous out of context), but why can't we get a verified timeline or a clear statement on whether or not there is DNA? The media did well in the beginning, but I think we are past the point of just sitting around and waiting for LE to keep releasing statements that amount to very little for the public and that some investigative journalism should really be done rather than just the pieces for the evening news and small updates on Twitter (which is all you probably need when the case is fresh, but I'll argue that that time is quickly running out if it hasn't already).

I come from a small town where these kind of things just don't happen, so I can definitely understand the sort of dynamics they are dealing with and I don't want to be overly critical of the police, especially because they are clearly dedicated to this case and that they had the presence of mind to include other agencies from the start, but they can't be immune to criticism either. I guess the point of this post is that when we are kept in the dark like this, it requires the public to place a lot of trust in LE (really a blind trust) and while they have certainly done enough to earn it for awhile, they don't really have it anymore IMO. That's not to say I have no confidence in them, but it's no longer at or near 100% like it was for so many weeks. I will say, as frustrating as it is, that they should be praised for completely locking down on leaks, because it seems like almost nothing has gotten out that they didn't want out which is impressive for such a high profile case in such a small town.

Anyways... just had to get that out (and all of it is just my opinion, especially because we know so little) as I have just been feeling a little less hopeful with this case over the last week or so. It looks like it is going to need that one big breakthrough that comes out of nowhere, but that is something that happens so it's not completely hopeless!

For your support, the LE may be fearful of copycat killers. Too many of these crimes become serial, and to pit the next 'wannabe' Zodiac or Ripper up to the present contestant may not be a good idea. Information breeds ideas, and many have too much idle time.

 

[her]

Does having a heinous crime happen on or near your property reduce the value of it?

Yes, it would at this level of scrutiny and coverage. Which could be a reason in some way or another to get the land cheap.
Then again, in some ways there can be people who want to make a profit off of owning sacred land for lack of a better term atm.

In FL you do not disclose that in real estate transactions.

 

[Bemused]

Hazelnutty, I remembered this from somewhere in the recesses of my memory.

https://www.diedinhouse.com/

 

[Jethro4WS]

Does anyone know if the following day (February 14th) was also a day off from school?