IN-Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #52

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  • #421
Thank you to everybody who replied about my question on Guns.

My thinking was that if somebody had maybe seen him earlier in the day and he had a weapon somebody may of noticed it and taken note but it seems like carrying a gun would be pretty common and actually wouldn't stand out.

My husband and many guys I know carry daily, no matter where. But no one I know carries a weapon blatantly inside a jacket like that. Most guys who have carry permits don't agree with the open carry laws and don't do it. Open carry is very scarce, even here in TX. Now the one gun we see under his windbreaker is concealed, sort of. Normal guys who carry daily work to get a good fitting holster so it is totally concealed. That's because they don't want to be alarming. They just want to be prepared for that random act of violence. So yes, seeing someone with a gun is not normal even in an area where a lot of people carry a gun.
But I believe this guy is loaded with weapons. I think some of the wierd areas we can't figure out are possibly where he was carrying exposed weapons. Anyone who would carry a gun so the outline is visible under a windbreaker would also have a long knife sheath against their left leg, perhaps even an AR over their right shoulder or arm (where the image appears cut and spliced) not to mention multiple clips.

IMO law abiding citizens get concealed carry permits so they can be prepared for random acts of violence, for protection of themselves and others against the threat of bad guys. Bad guys rarely get carry permits.
 
  • #422
  • #423
I would like to know if the property with arrow is the one which had tracks of a vehicle across it?

AbbyLibbyDelphiProperty.jpg
 
  • #424
Per LE... BG is a suspect,RL is not
but you also have to keep in mind that LE rarely identifies a suspect until the time of arrest. Identifying BG as a suspect was unusual.

What they have yet to do with RL is to clear him.
 
  • #425
but you also have to keep in mind that LE rarely identifies a suspect until the time of arrest. Identifying BG as a suspect was unusual.

What they have yet to do with RL is to clear him.
"not a suspect" how much clearer do you need? By this logic, everyone is a suspect. I haven't seen them publicly clear Skeletor and in some photo's it could look like him.
 
  • #426
Ijust noticed something while looking at the picture of RL and BG. Has anyone else noticed that RL's head seems smaller than BG's? I think he has been scaled down in order to be the same size. In my opinion, RL is taller and larger all around than BG. RL has quite a large head and I believe that if the picture was rescaled to represent that, we would see that they are different sizes. I realize that it is not a perfect science but someone's somewhat educated guess of BG's height was 5'9"-5'10"... RL is at least 6 ft. Jmo
 
  • #427
Statistically, I don't think many people carry a weapon day to day.

Most US states require a permit (usually easily obtainable) to carry a weapon. Only a minority of the people in these states have bothered to obtain a weapons permit. Of course, some criminals just ignore the need for a permit and carry a weapon illegally.

Amongst the minority of the population who have permits to legally carry weapons, some carry a weapon daily, and other permit holders rarely carry a weapon.

So, to provide a vague answer to your question: I think it would be statistically uncommon, but by no means unheard of for an individual to be carrying a weapon (illegally or legally) on that trail.

So do you think Libby and Abby would have felt uneasy or scared if they saw BG on the trail/bridge and noticed he had a gun (assuming he was just simply walking by and minding his own business), or do you think it would have been a common part of their culture to see men carrying weapons in the outdoors and therefore they wouldn't have felt threatened?
 
  • #428
Those won't open for me, thanks any way.

There was a map posted threads back that showed the property lines, showing where the boundaries were for the properties on the south side, inreference to the residence whose driveway goes under the bridge. Wanted to see if they owned the whole driveway or it was a right of way. Jmo

Sorry it would not open for you. Here is the png version:

attachment.php


-Nin

Source:
https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0
 

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  • #429
I've missed out on replying to a LOT of posts on many subjects due to timezones & the thread lockdowns, but this one seems to come up in some form in every single thread, so I'm going to roll a whole heap of replies into this one post re the debate over whether the man at BB Rd & others were "cleared" while RL was not.

The news articles that went further & described the subjects of the BB Rd search warrant as "cleared" came after the LE statements of "not a suspect at this time". Local media went further a week or so later only because the rumours & accusations about Bicycle Bridge Rd still hadn't stopped & the family in that home were terrified. Local media did much the same when the accusations continued against RL after the police issued "not a suspect at this time" statements about him.

Those who haven't followed the case outside of WS from the start may be unaware of what it was like when that warrant was served but the man at Bicycle Bridge Rd was subjected to many of the same rumours & accusations as RL

ie :

- he must be involved or they wouldn't have probable cause
- if he didn't do it himself he must know who did & he's protecting them
- it was his adult son or someone else he knows & he's covering for a child killer
- if he's not a suspect why were so many officers involved in the search
- why were they there for so long unless they knew what they were looking for
- why would they execute the warrant "urgently" at that time of night unless they had something big on him
- if it's not him why did media show photos of police removing multiple boxes of evidence from his house
- why were media there at all unless police know he's involved
- they want us to know they know or they wouldn't have tipped off media & let them stand around filming the search all night
- people insisted "pfft he hasn't been cleared at all - they said "at this time so obviously they're just not charging him yet because they're waiting for the lab results to come back on the stuff they removed from his house" etc, etc, etc.

Sound familiar?

The only reason those "not a suspect at this time" statements were even made was the insane reaction to that search warrant. The family started being approached on soc med by strangers. Some wanted to befriend them to try & get the dirt on their family members, other people were sending a 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 of threats & abuse. There was such an onslaught that the family deactivated their accounts in fear & then even that was seen as a sign of guilt.

The first warning to leave the family alone & not listen to online theories about the crime came from a page run by Carroll County's emergency dispatchers. When their warning failed to calm the situation & the family's home started to be vandalised & targeted in real life, then the "not a suspect at this time" statements were finally issued by police themselves.

IMO all LE involved in this investigation were completely unprepared for the public response to that search warrant. They're used to going about their work without having to worry about every word, facial expression & mannerism being analysed & (mis)interpreted by thousands of people. They learnt their lesson - & IMO that's why they addressed media quickly when RL's warrant was served. IMO that's also the only reason RL was accompanied to court by senior officers with the most experience in fielding media queries. The extreme reaction to the man at Bicycle Bridge Rd & several other men who've fallen under public suspicion is probably also behind the level of security given to RL at court. Police have a responsibility to protect people & property, especially when they may come under threat as the result of police enquiries.


It should not be assumed that police tipped off media re RL's search warrant. Journalists have the same access to police scanners as the rest of us. They're also capable of recruiting tipsters or parking near police buildings & watching for movement.

It's also important to note that several people have been the subject of accusations as the result of police activities in this investigation, but so far only two men have had police issue statements on their behalf. Only one man has had police statements issued on his behalf repeatedly & while one or two of those statements also contained ambiguous detail, they all contained detail that could be considered to clear the subject as well. Therefore the bulk of police statements re RL point to him not being a suspect.

In any case, the only LE issued statements re BB Rd are "not a suspect at this time".

I'm not here to push for suspicion of one name over another because we have nowhere near enough detail to single out any one person.

My point is that either "not a suspect at this time" clears everyone LE applied it to, or it clears no-one.

It cannot be both.

Bump!
 
  • #430
but you also have to keep in mind that LE rarely identifies a suspect until the time of arrest. Identifying BG as a suspect was unusual.

What they have yet to do with RL is to clear him.
So what you are saying is,It would be awesome if a reporter would ask the Carrol county sheriff's dept something along these lines.... Tobe,you have said that RL is not a suspect on multiple occasions,yet is still a part of the investigation.Is what you are telling us,is that Mr. L has been cleared as a suspect?
 
  • #431
Thank you. It may be an alternative explanation as to how LE came by the video if they recovered the phone in damaged condition and the video didn't auto-u/l to the cloud. I wonder if it was submerged in water if that would hinder recovery of data.

No I don't think being wet or broken hinders what they can recover if they have the phone. If they have to rely totally on the cloud then they would be more limited because I don't think everything that gets stored in phone memory is available from cloud storage. There was something interesting on the scanner thread that happened within just an hour or 1.5 hrs after they found the bodies that could lead you to think they recovered the phone. If they were only going off cloud storage they could have that the 13th. So it's my theory that they did recover at least Libby's phone.
 
  • #432
My husband and many guys I know carry daily, no matter where. But no one I know carries a weapon blatantly inside a jacket like that. Most guys who have carry permits don't agree with the open carry laws and don't do it. Open carry is very scarce, even here in TX. Now the one gun we see under his windbreaker is concealed, sort of. Normal guys who carry daily work to get a good fitting holster so it is totally concealed. That's because they don't want to be alarming. They just want to be prepared for that random act of violence. So yes, seeing someone with a gun is not normal even in an area where a lot of people carry a gun.
But I believe this guy is loaded with weapons. I think some of the wierd areas we can't figure out are possibly where he was carrying exposed weapons. Anyone who would carry a gun so the outline is visible under a windbreaker would also have a long knife sheath against their left leg, perhaps even an AR over their right shoulder or arm (where the image appears cut and spliced) not to mention multiple clips.

IMO law abiding citizens get concealed carry permits so they can be prepared for random acts of violence, for protection of themselves and others against the threat of bad guys. Bad guys rarely get carry permits.

Thank you for such a wonderful post :)

It's so hard to wrap my head around the gun culture in America as here if I saw somebody with a gun you wouldn't see me for dust. It would prettify me so it's so intriguing to read all these posts on here.

So thank you everybody for your views :)
 
  • #433
I would like to know if the property with arrow is the one which had tracks of a vehicle across it?

attachment.php

Yes, that's the same field. Regarding the tracks, you may want to check the scanner thread for that.

All IMO

-Nin
 
  • #434
  • #435
"not a suspect" how much clearer do you need? By this logic, everyone is a suspect. I haven't seen them publicly clear Skeletor and in some photo's it could look like him.

the owner of this web sight could not have said it better.

Let me try and clear this up for you.


Always remember hardly anything on Websleuths is Black and White. Websleuths has lots of gray areas.


Rarely do police ever say someone is a suspect unless it is obvious like Bridge Guy.


What we have to do in certain cases is use our common sense.


Why did the police get a search warrant for RL the land owner where Abby and Libby's bodies were found?


Why did the police violate his parole? If someone could find a link verifying this. I will retract if I am incorrect.


Why was RL given over three years in prison for driving convictions?

Didn't the police say he was not cooperating? You have to wonder if there is a deal to be made with RL if he cooperates.


Is there anyone else the police are looking into that has anything close to the connection to the case like RL other than BG?


To get a search warrant for his house police needed probable cause.


As the owner of Websleuths, it is up to me to make these decisions about who can be discussed and who can't. I do so by following the Websleuths guidelines along with discussing among the mods and using common sense.


Here is another good example. The murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.


Her husband Mark wasn't ever pointed out as a suspect until shortly before he was arrested. However, his behavior made it obvious he was hiding something. This is why early on Websleuths allowed Mark Sievers to be discussed as a suspect. Same with his friend Wayne.


We take each case on its merits.


In this case, because the police had probable cause for a search warrant members can sleuth RL ONLY. Not his family, not his friends. Also, we have stated over and over no one is saying he is guilty. If someone calls him a murderer please alert and we will remove.


So when a member feels like a guy that used to date Abby or Libby's mom kind of looks like BG and wants to sleuth him we say absolutely not.


RL owned the land the bodies were found on. We did not allow sleuthing him at this point at all. It was only when the police served the search warrant did we allow members to sleuth.


Police have said he is not a suspect. They said this before, during, and after the search warrant of RL's home.


You have to use common sense and go by what police have done in the past to make these decisions.


One more thing, we only allow the initials of RL. Why? So when someone Googles his name Websleuths won't come up.


However, you go to all the other sites on the Internet, and they are tearing RL apart, using his real name and sleuthing God knows what about his past.


At Websleuths we do our best to balance between letting you discuss and being sensitive to people's situations.


You will not find any other forum on the Internet that works harder than we do to be as fair as possible.


Remember, if it too much for you and you feel it's wrong no one is forcing you to stay.


Thank you,
Tricia
 
  • #436
  • #437
Ijust noticed something while looking at the picture of RL and BG. Has anyone else noticed that RL's head seems smaller than BG's? I think he has been scaled down in order to be the same size. In my opinion, RL is taller and larger all around than BG. RL has quite a large head and I believe that if the picture was rescaled to represent that, we would see that they are different sizes. I realize that it is not a perfect science but someone's somewhat educated guess of BG's height was 5'9"-5'10"... RL is at least 6 ft. Jmo

IMO the POI/BG is shorter, than initially anticipated. Still waiting to hear back from GH (posted the videos on youtube) in this regard.

All IMO

-Nin
 
  • #438
"not a suspect" how much clearer do you need? By this logic, everyone is a suspect. I haven't seen them publicly clear Skeletor and in some photo's it could look like him.

Until LE announces an arrest of the person or persons responsible for "brutally murdering"* Libby and Abby, my mind is going to the more logical explanation to me. YMMV

*Doug Carter's own words two weeks after the murders.
 
  • #439
Ijust noticed something while looking at the picture of RL and BG. Has anyone else noticed that RL's head seems smaller than BG's? I think he has been scaled down in order to be the same size. In my opinion, RL is taller and larger all around than BG. RL has quite a large head and I believe that if the picture was rescaled to represent that, we would see that they are different sizes. I realize that it is not a perfect science but someone's somewhat educated guess of BG's height was 5'9"-5'10"... RL is at least 6 ft. Jmo
that estimation was with his head looking down which subtracts from his real height.
 
  • #440
So what you are saying is,It would be awesome if a reporter would ask the Carrol county sheriff's dept something along these lines.... Tobe,you have said that RL is not a suspect on multiple occasions,yet is still a part of the investigation.Is what you are telling us,is that Mr. L has been cleared as a suspect?

Exactly! I was actually going to type that someone should call Tobe and ask him.
 
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