IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #76

[Don Frye]

I’m not sure if she is talking about this case specific. I know LE and FBI’s tactics. I’m not so sure that people are quite as knowledgeable as you are Don on this subject and pretty much every subject you insert yourself into. No need to get upset when someone contradicts you.


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That was not being upset, just laying down an opinion ☺

 

[FindHG]

This was discussed a lot early on, including a discussion on why they would omit that word, whatever it is. Just seems so weird, still!

It never has seemed off to me. Abby and Libby's voices may have been on there which is that last thing LE would release, it seems to me.

 

[mi_hiker]

Do we have a timeline for RL’s activities on the 13th? I don’t want to look at him as a suspect but as a potential witness who would have had a very good chance of seeing BG exit the scene on his way to or from the dump. I want to see how it lines up with the timeframe on Dr. Phil.


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[Steleheart]

Let's be crystal here for a moment. You people are asking me for my opinion, which that's precisely what I have been doing. A few of you are making it sound like I'm saying these are direct undisputed facts linked specifically to this case, THEY ARE NOT. I'm displaying methods that I personally may or may not of implemented, does that mean LE are implementing thoes tactics is this case NO. Hope this clears up any more drama that might arise.
Thank You.

Hello and welcome Don Frye.

I hope that you are not feeling unwelcome.

I think that Admin has made clear that WS is a fact- based forum. When members post as if something is fact others tend to look for some kind of back up citations for those facts. It seems to me and to many others that it is much more than MOO :cow: IMHO and etc. Providing links for factual claims helps people understand your point of view.

You seem to have some expertise re profiling, and etc. Have you thought about becoming a Verified Professional based on your experience or profession? We are blessed to have so many Pros who can help us along in our stumblings ( well, mine anyway, haha)

The information about that can be found here;

VERIFIED PROFESSIONALS and CASE INSIDERS

And
Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters

Other than that if anyone has a question about any post please use the red triangle on the post, send a PM to any Mod, or send an email to [email protected].

Happy sleuthing!!

 

[Jabarn]

Hi there Don... since you are from Iowa (and I find your posts helpful), what do you make of the Elizabeth and Lyric case in your state, and any possible similarities? I have not been one to see a direct link, but plenty of other folks here have seen similarities. Feel free to say you haven’t had time to process that, or don’t know. Thanks in advance (TIA).

 

[kkdj]

My beautiful wife says I take things way to seriously...maybe she has a point.

Makes for good investigation imo! But I know for me, especially in the beginning, I had to get accustomed to some other types of personalities. Funny now, but one of the first responders to one of my posts, that I thought was kind of snarky with me, has become a poster that I really value their opinion, although I still often disagree. But it's interesting to me to see anothers perspective. Sometimes it changes my course of thought even after I was so sure I was right! For instance, you saying this killer was organized, calm, not sloppy, and it was the opposite of DN, made me think. I've really been one of those sticklers on here that believed DN was BG! The one thing in my gut that contradicted this was the calmness in the "down the hill" voice. For some reason that just didn't fit the historical personality we have heard and read about DN. So, when you put it like you did, it fit better to me. I'm still somewhat on the fence, but leaning way over. Because of that calm, unhurried 3 words. Thinking that this was planned, all of his ducks in a row, would keep the killer calm and in control. DN does not have this history. DN rampages.

 

[Daae]

Do we have a timeline for RL’s activities on the 13th? I don’t want to look at him as a suspect but as a potential witness who would have had a very good chance of seeing BG exit the scene on his way to or from the dump. I want to see how it lines up with the timeframe on Dr. Phil.


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Absolutely 100% agree!!! Or on or near his land. We need to keep open minds about routes taken. LE spent a lot of time going through RL's property. I don't think RL had anything to do with the murders, IMO

He went to the dump in the early afternoon.

 

[kkdj]

Hi there Don... since you are from Iowa (and I find your posts helpful), what do you make of the Elizabeth and Lyric case in your state, and any possible similarities? I have not been one to see a direct link, but plenty of other folks here have seen similarities. Feel free to say you haven’t had time to process that, or don’t know. Thanks in advance (TIA).

Iirc Don thought the Iowa murders were drug related and involved with a lesson, or revenge towards the parents or family and that his own family had had something very similar happen to them in the 70's.

 

[perfectingpink]

Could RL be the eyewitness who helped with the sketch? I would think if he was the eyewitness, he would be able to say yes or no to whether it was DN when shown a picture of him. However, if RL happened to be snockered when he saw BG, would he be considered a credible witness or credible enough to stake everything on? Does this even make sense? It does in my mind but we all know how that goes.:cuckoo:

 

[FindHG]

I'm not as familiar as you all are with the progress of the case? What changed significantly or was going on at end of November and into December?

 

[Rott Mom]

Only fifteen members on this thread right now. Such a shame, because we have nothing new to sleuth.

Wishing the girls a very Merry Christmas in heaven - Justice is coming (I hope).

 

[Steleheart]

Only fifteen members on this thread right now. Such a shame, because we have nothing new to sleuth.

Wishing the girls a very Merry Christmas in heaven - Justice is coming (I hope).

Glad you are here though RM. Thank you for checking in! And everyone - members and guests.

 

[emptybottles]

12/2016? DN and KN split up.

1/3 DN brother murdered
1/10 DN brothers murderer arrested

Day unknown
KN FB post "He's stalking my fb"

2/7 DN checks in with SR
2/8 Multiple KN FB post about feeling cheated, hating life, and obviously fighting with DN and using FB to communicate with him. "I swear all men lie" blah blah

2/13
1:30 drop-off
2:07 pictures posted
2:42 KN FB post. "Dr. Appt today" yada yada baby momma gloating. (upsetting to DN?)
3:11 DG called Libby
3:14 DG started walking the trails
3:30 DG could not find, other family called
4:00 MP was called
5:15 Police were called by MP
6:00 Search was on
9:06 KN FB post "Is it bad that all I want to do is talk to you... but I can't.. " (obviously posting message to DN who stalked her on FB)

2/14 KN says she took DN to his SR but doesn't say where she picked him up from or dropped him off on return.

2/15 BG Photos released

2/21 DN checks in

2/24 DN incarcerated in Morgan Co jail

2/28 DN checks in

3/6 DN in court

3/7 DN checks in
3/14 DN checks in
3/21 DN checks in
3/29 DN in court

4/4 DN checks in
4/10 DN checks in reports InTown Suites
4/12 DN registers new address
4/25 DN arrested driving with no DL and drugs
4/25 KN feedback left on IN prison website "very helpful" with paperwork
5/12 DN checks out of InTown Suites
5/16 KN makes FB post saying "we are in Denver" looking for handouts at Hands me Down Denver.
6/4 KN feedback left on Ink Junkies fb page in Arvada (Denver) CO

7/17 Delphi suspect sketch released
7/17 DN misses court appearance
7/18 warrants issued for DN arrest

Aug
Multiple reports of robberies, hatchet man threats in Mt Herman area.
Assaults not made public.
DN and vehicle match descriptions. So it can be assumed they are in Mt Herman area.

9/14
Time unknown - TW goes for bike ride
Time unknown - DN brothers murderer sentenced to (only) 16 years.
Time unknown - TW murdered

unsure of which day
9/15-9/17 Photos of DN passing by murder location multiple times taken by search party
9/17 TW bike found? shoe found?
9/18 TW body found, and another shoe found and other items away from site possibly as far away as one mile?

9/20-9/22 hatchet man threats reported again?

9/25 DN arrested in Woodland Park after visiting pawn shop.

I thought I would fill in some blanks spots for you.

 

[Yvettea]

Can someone please point me to the link to the Dr. Phil show?

TIA

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

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the more I read, the more I am convinced that we know nothing about this case. All speculative.

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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Hi Love Never Fails,[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Abby and Libby had February 10th and 13th off school for unused snow days. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Abby was at Libby’s house on February 13 and the girls asked to go to the trails. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Libby’s sister dropped them off about 1:30 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know they made it to the bridge and took at least one picture of and one picture on it. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know the picture of Abby on the bridge was uploaded to Snapchat with a time stamp of 2:07 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know LE called Libby a hero for having the presence of mind to turn on her phone’s video recording. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know images of a POI we refer to as “Bridge Guy” (BG) were captured on that recording and made into still shots by LE. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know audio of the POI was captured also with the words “down the hill” released to the media. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know LE placed billboards in 46 of the 50 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Maine and Vermont do not allow billboards). At least one of the billboard layouts alludes to the POI being seen last at 2:30 pm, likely the time the video images of him were shot. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]We know Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up around 3:00 pm. According to posts referring to the recent Dr. Phil show, he tried calling at 3:11 pm, then went to look on the trails. Not finding them, he notified other family members who assisted in the search. LE was notified at 5:15 pm and a large-scale search began at 6:00 pm. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]The girls were found at approximately 12:15 pm on February 14 in a wooded area near the MHB. [/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]If anyone can think of anything else we KNOW as FACT that isn’t speculation or theory, please bring it to my attention. I’m saving a draft of this in my notes and can add to it and repost as needed if that would be of help or interest to all of you.[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Steleheart]

Can someone tell me the meaning of UNSUB?
thanks.

I'm sorry, I'm catching up backwards again. :notgood: I know.

It's mainly from "Criminal Minds" on TV and refers to "Unknown Subject". It's fictional in most contexts.
When you read others posting about the POI it is basically the same thing. BG (Bridge Guy) has been called by LE the "main suspect". DN is actually the only named POI. (Person Of Interest). We do not know why out of thousands of tips he is the only one named by LE.
Tis what it Tis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsub

 

[Daae]

Only fifteen members on this thread right now. Such a shame, because we have nothing new to sleuth.

Wishing the girls a very Merry Christmas in heaven - Justice is coming (I hope).

We do have some interesting new information to sleuth. We now know that the witness saw BG leaving the area at around the time of the murders. He was not seen in a bar or earlier in the day etc.. This is important! We also have information from Don Frye that he has blown up the image and sees a flannel, hoodie, jacket liner and jacket. The shirt tails were confirmed by the LE on Dr. Phil so I believe Mr. Frye is accurately evaluating the pictures. No fanny pack or goggles. Many layers. IMO

 

[Rossymom]

I will never forget that day. I was in Carrol County delivering Valentine candy to my son in Burlington (to give to his wife). Donaldson’s Chocolates are a “must-have” in our area. I wish SO much that my timing was later in the day, as I was in Frankfort by noon. The day was so beautiful and super windy. I wanted so badly to open my windows on my Jeep, but it was just too windy. The sunny and warm day was SO welcome after dreary cold days. So I totally understand why the girls wanted to be outside on that day. I pray every day for all of their families questions to be answered and for justice to be served.


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[Don Frye]

Exactly what Frye was trying to point out.

Thank You.

 

[her]

I think that may be over thinking it. LE doesn't seem misleading to me or trying to bluff-trap.

As I filtered the images of his face, I think I could make out his teeth, and a one sided grimace, that kind of scrunched up his nose on one side. His chin, caught a lot of light, and his whiskers, blemishes seemed apparent, creases around his lips. Since he's a murderer, I imagine whomever looks into that face and has an inkling it's Abby and Libby's killer may be very scared or in denial still. The sketch makes him look poker faced, but the grimacing creep on the bridge looks scary to me in the caps from Feb., as I review.

The sketch rendered from the eyewitness who according to LE saw him face to face makes sense to me, the expression, the features. He is somebody who can display grimacing rage, kill and then seem non offensive almost soft looking.

I just see a blob.