IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[IceIce9]

I've never understood the venom in this case. I absolutely believe this was not intentional. Do we just want the guy in jail because he followed the advice of his attorney to blame RCCL? Maybe he's a one in a million special kind of stupid? I'm terrified of heights myself. I'm especially terrified of my children around any heights. I'd never in a million years hold them up to a window on a ship like that. I practically need a xanax for them to walk on anything where they could even potentially hit the ground below or water below.

So many other people just walk around assuming all is safe and well. I can definitely see someone holding a child up to look out a window and it turning into a freak accident. I've always assumed they had some more evidence to be prosecuting him criminally. But it's not looking like that. I just don't get what seems to be so much dislike for this man though as if he really did it on purpose.

And he has some tickets? That means C's parent's were stupid to let him watch her on a cruise ship? If any of my parents or in laws have any tickets I would have no idea. How would I know unless I was there when it happened or they went out of their way to let me know they'd gotten a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt?

If the parents hadn’t blamed the cruise line and said they were going to sue, there wouldn’t be this “venom.”

MOO but people are just tired of everyone finding someone else to blame (and sue) rather than accepting responsibility.

 

[oviedo]

I've never understood the venom in this case. I absolutely believe this was not intentional. Do we just want the guy in jail because he followed the advice of his attorney to blame RCCL? Maybe he's a one in a million special kind of stupid? I'm terrified of heights myself. I'm especially terrified of my children around any heights. I'd never in a million years hold them up to a window on a ship like that. I practically need a xanax for them to walk on anything where they could even potentially hit the ground below or water below.

So many other people just walk around assuming all is safe and well. I can definitely see someone holding a child up to look out a window and it turning into a freak accident. I've always assumed they had some more evidence to be prosecuting him criminally. But it's not looking like that. I just don't get what seems to be so much dislike for this man though as if he really did it on purpose.

And he has some tickets? That means C's parent's were stupid to let him watch her on a cruise ship? If any of my parents or in laws have any tickets I would have no idea. How would I know unless I was there when it happened or they went out of their way to let me know they'd gotten a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt?

If the parents hadn’t blamed the cruise line and said they were going to sue, there wouldn’t be this “venom.”

MOO but people are just tired of everyone finding someone else to blame (and sue) rather than accepting responsibility.

I don’t have any venom towards this man - I just don’t like the cruise line being blamed for his egregious behavior and subsequent half truths- his story has changed many times since they first went on tv in July (parents of the baby) saying RCCL was totally at fault. We’ve posted many pictures and videos showing how dangerous it would be to prop anything let alone a baby along that window ledge - he needs to own up to his part which was lifting the baby up to the window and leaning over it - if you have been on a ship (I have) and stood at this open win down there is absolutely no mistaking it’s open and you would never prop a baby up on the ledge to get a better view - you just wouldn’t - it’s too scary IMO. And if the early reports also posted in the media thread are true - he was dangling her, he was throwing her up and catching her in an act of games - he was holding her outside the window - then yeah I see the venom people may have because he took a life through negligent behavior. The video will show just how negligent he was - I believe the prosecution
JMO

 

[Gardenista]

I've never understood the venom in this case. I absolutely believe this was not intentional. Do we just want the guy in jail because he followed the advice of his attorney to blame RCCL? Maybe he's a one in a million special kind of stupid? I'm terrified of heights myself. I'm especially terrified of my children around any heights. I'd never in a million years hold them up to a window on a ship like that. I practically need a xanax for them to walk on anything where they could even potentially hit the ground below or water below.

So many other people just walk around assuming all is safe and well. I can definitely see someone holding a child up to look out a window and it turning into a freak accident. I've always assumed they had some more evidence to be prosecuting him criminally. But it's not looking like that. I just don't get what seems to be so much dislike for this man though as if he really did it on purpose.

And he has some tickets? That means C's parent's were stupid to let him watch her on a cruise ship? If any of my parents or in laws have any tickets I would have no idea. How would I know unless I was there when it happened or they went out of their way to let me know they'd gotten a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt?

Don't worry--if you go to other sites, you'll see you are in the majority. Personally I just come to this thread because I find the comments about stuff like tickets freaking hilarious.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I've never understood the venom in this case. I absolutely believe this was not intentional. Do we just want the guy in jail because he followed the advice of his attorney to blame RCCL?

I hate use to the term 'we' as it sounds like self-appointed board spokesman, but what I can say for me is that he should be in jail for acting negligently that resulted in a death, hence negligent homicide. So far I haven't even heard his attorney blame RCCL, so I don't know where that's coming from.

 

[justbreathe]

There is something going on with how this story is being handled at the Daily Mail. When the incident first happened, stories would have thousands of replies, most skeptical of the claims against the cruise line. The last 2 stories have had all of the replies moderated. That means the staff reads them and decides which comments to publish, rather than simply publishing all of the comments. So the last 2 stories, one by Winkleman about the video, and one with the CBS tape, have only shown a couple hundred replies each, most expressing great sympathy for the step grandfather with a much smaller number saying that the cruise line is not at fault. People say that the DM is pay-for-play, that you can pay to have a story published and you can pay to have it moderated to favor a particular position. Is is possible that is happening with this story?

Yes! I can feel Winkleman’s pr people calling in favors.

On the subject of railings: I'm sure there are some "dance moms" here Are your daughters (or sons) allowed to sit, stand, hang from the barres in the studio? Probably not. The barres are there primarily for balance and also may be used for stretching or other types of movement. Dance students would likely be admonished for using the barres inappropriately.

But are there signs saying don’t sit on them, a warning, anything??!! ;-)

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I also just do not understand how this child got out that window. Even with her sitting in the railing, she must have been leaning almost completely over to topple over a foot from the railing to the window and out. Was he not holding her at all? Was he just expecting to lean her against the glass (that wasn’t there) as they looked out? He must have been leaning farther out than she was, since he was still taller than her, even sitting on the railing?

(My blood goes cold imagining her *standing* on that rail...)

Exactly. Leaning forward! There's no way that SA didn't know that the window was open. Stop with all the lame excuses!

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes! I can feel Winkleman’s pr people calling in favors.

But are there signs saying don’t sit on them, a warning, anything??!! ;-)

I was a dancer myself and as far as I know parents and siblings are not even allowed in the dance studio. The dance instructor would have control over the students. I don't know if they have warning signs now but back then it wasn't needed.
But that was a long time ago when people had more respect for the rules so these days it wouldn't surprise me if parents let their kids hang on the barre.
Many parents just seem to be oblivious these days.

Imo

 

[fabvab]

I think it’s cruel of him to just even hold her up to a window ledge that high off the ground. I wouldn’t want anyone to try to sit me on a window ledge that high up! I’d panic, as I’m sure she did! Especially if he was on the other side of the rail. How scary for her to see how high up she was! She would have been fine playing in the splash pad or standing on the floor looking out. He didn’t pick her up and put her there for her enjoyment. It was for his own sadistic enjoyment! And his explanation stinks...how do you sit a toddler on a closed window rail? Not like it was a window seat with padding.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

We need a list of the ever-changing stories about what really happened to Chloe. Between MW and SA, there have been several versions of the incident. I suspect they're testing the waters to see which tall tale will sit well with a jury.

 

[IceIce9]

I was a dancer myself and as far as I know parents and siblings are not even allowed in the dance studio. The dance instructor would have control over the students. I don't know if they have warning signs now but back then it wasn't needed.
But that was a long time ago when people had more respect for the rules so these days it wouldn't surprise me if parents let their kids hang on the barre.
Many parents just seem to be oblivious these days.

Imo

At the salon where I get my hair cut they had to put signs on the back of each chair: “Parents please do not allow your children to climb into chairs and spin.”

I joked with my stylist after they put up the signs but she was dead serious. She said whenever there was a chair or two empty kids would climb in and spin around, seeing how fast they could make the chair spin! And if kids were too small to climb up themselves parents were lifting them into the chairs so they could spin.

She said they were afraid they would be sued if a child fell and got injured, even if the parent put the child in the chair to begin with.

 

[Montrealaise]

I have to admit I just don't understand why this particular man is getting so much support from his family and community. A child died not in an accident but due to negligence. People have been treated a lot worse for doing a whole lot less.

I thought it was interesting, though, that he appeared to be all by himself at the court hearing last week without any family members there for support. Maybe they can't afford to fly to PR or they have work commitments - or maybe they are having doubts about grandpa's version of events?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

If the parents hadn’t blamed the cruise line and said they were going to sue, there wouldn’t be this “venom.”

MOO but people are just tired of everyone finding someone else to blame (and sue) rather than accepting responsibility.

ITA, Chloe wasn't even in the ground and the money grab was in full swing! Infuriating! MOO

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I thought it was interesting, though, that he appeared to be all by himself at the court hearing last week without any family members there for support. Maybe they can't afford to fly to PR or they have work commitments - or maybe they are having doubts about grandpa's version of events?

I find it rather curious that immediately afterward his cop SIL and prosecutor DIL got him out of there doing the legally wise thing of not giving a formal statement nor taking a breathalyzer, but now that they have access to the video and not just what SA says, they got their lawyer who specifically doesn't represent SA to undo that by egging him on to do a video statement going so far as re-enacting the event. It seems very hard to believe prosecutor DIL would have him do this for his best interest.

 

[SuziQ]

I just came across this on the ABC News site:

Anello said that he initially blamed himself for his granddaughter’s death, but now believes the cruise line should have had a sign posted warning that windows in the area where she fell could be open.

If there was such a sign, he said, “this wouldn’t have happened.”

He INITIALLY blamed himself?
But.. what? Now he doesn't?
SMH .... ugh!

Oh please. The guy can't even be bothered to buckle up a seatbelt. Rules and signs mean nothing to him.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

From the CBS News site:

Initially, Anello said he blamed himself.

"I couldn't help but blame myself. But I know that, I know that if there was a sign, if there was something that indicated there was a chance for that window to be an opening, that this wouldn't happen," Anello said.

Anello says he now blames the cruise line.

"I just want them to fix the boat. Just fix it. Just fix the boat."

The SHIP isn't what needs fixing, IMHOO

 

[sl222]

A spokesperson for Michael Winkleman, the family’s attorney, provided a statement to the Washington Post: “...Sam’s interview further makes clear that this was a tragic accident and that there are no grounds for any criminal charges against Sam. It is the family’s wish that any and all criminal charges be dropped so that they can grieve as a family.”

More gaslighting from Winkleman.

 

[justice4allnow]

At some point he will get a psych eval, no doubt. And I think that it will show that he is in the early stages of some type of dementia. He appears forgetful, illogical, makes poor decisions and seems to have a poor memory. Plus repeats phrases. I couldn't hazard a guess as to what type of dementia, there are many types, but he seems to have all of the early markers. People in the early stages are often still working. What he did with Chloe makes absolutely no sense so this is the only explanation that I can see. I've had some first-hand experience with a family member and I see some similarities here.

 

[justice4allnow]

"Neurocognitive symptoms like memory impairment, reduced executive function, lack of judgement and language difficulties are hall-marks of dementia. Symptoms vary over time and with the type of dementia, comorbid diseases, medication, environment and care provided. Symptoms can separately or in combination contribute to criminal behaviour and actions." (From a study on crime and dementia in elderly patients, that also looks at co-morbidity with alcohol.)

 

[oviedo]

I thought it was interesting, though, that he appeared to be all by himself at the court hearing last week without any family members there for support. Maybe they can't afford to fly to PR or they have work commitments - or maybe they are having doubts about grandpa's version of events?

Yes, I agree and I do not believe his wife (the grandmother to the baby) attended either.....
JMO

 

[Kittybunny]

A sign huh?

Like a speed limit sign?
Like a seatbelt sign?
Like a yield sign?
Like a “don’t sit on railings” notice?

Yes.
I’m sure a sign is all that would have been needed. He clearly obeys them.

BAM!

BOOM!

Mic drop!

(Love it!)