IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[Kakidoll]

I worded that very strange.. I don't think a long prison sentence is warranted (like 25 to life) however a prison sentence of SOME length SHOULD be imposed. I fully believe he lied, and caused more grief and/or harm to family, cruiseline etc. I think had he told the truth in the beginning, and it was an accident, i'd be more lenient. Does that make more sense? Pointing blame elsewhere instead of taking responsibility, in MY opinion, demands a stiffer sentence. If video shows him being negligent in HOLDING her out the window, then it goes to even longer of a sentence.

 

[borndem]

"En un momento, uno de sus abuelos ... en un acto de juegos, expone a la niña al vacío y se cae de sus manos".

This is what I received when I went to a Translate app that I use from time to time on google:

En un momento, uno de sus abuelos ... en un acto de juegos, expone a la niña al vacío y se cae de sus manos

At one point, one of his grandparents ... in an act of games, exposes the girl to emptiness and falls from his hands

translate spanish to english - Google Search

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we going to find out very little at the upcoming hearing? Aren't they just going to read the charges and ask for a plea, which is obviously going to be Not Guilty, Your Honor. Then at that point they'll set a trial date for sometime well into 2020. And then back to radio silence. I don't feel like anyone is saying anything....aside from the ever spinning Mr. Winkleman, not the investigators, not witnesses or viewers of the video, and definitely not RCCL.

I can't help but fear that until we get some more facts, we're just going round in circles with conjecture as to what occurred. I'm keeping an eye on it, but honestly, if I were to place a bet, I still would bet that there will be some sort of plea deal, because the family is going to not want to risk the video being shown in court during a trial. Same goes with any lawsuit they may be pursuing against RCCL. They've seen the Woody Allen film and heard the Steve Miller Band tune.

Plea deal won’t keep video out of civil litigation.

 

[max99]

Plea deal won’t keep video out of civil litigation.

and video will be leaked at some point...$$$

 

[mickey2942]

and video will be leaked at some point...$$$

I am actually interested in seeing the video. Macabre as that sounds. Was it like MJ when he dangled Blanket off the balcony? What really happened? Inquiring minds want to know...

What occurred right before the incident? Were they playing? Sitting? Was Chloe crying? Was SA trying to distract Chloe? Was this more sinister? Was Chloe crying and SA was frustrated with the toddler? There are so many variables and interpretations to this event.

People have put their own "spin" on the story, with absolutely zero evidence or knowledge about the situation. Maybe SA wasn't "playing", maybe he was really angry and frustrated...we don't know. Before making any comments for or against SA, I would like to see some empirical evidence.

 

[MsMarple]

I am actually interested in seeing the video. Macabre as that sounds. Was it like MJ when he dangled Blanket off the balcony? What really happened? Inquiring minds want to know...

What occurred right before the incident? Were they playing? Sitting? Was Chloe crying? Was SA trying to distract Chloe? Was this more sinister? Was Chloe crying and SA was frustrated with the toddler? There are so many variables and interpretations to this event.

People have put their own "spin" on the story, with absolutely zero evidence or knowledge about the situation. Maybe SA wasn't "playing", maybe he was really angry and frustrated...we don't know. Before making any comments for or against SA, I would like to see some empirical evidence.

Honestly, IMO SA stood Chloe up on the railing and when she leaned forward to "bang on the glass" he lost his grip on her since he wasn't anticipating that she would go through and fall. Whether or not he knew it was an open window is still questionable but I don't think he meant to harm her. If he knew the window was open then maybe he was helping her lean out to see the people on the dock.

I just can't see him dangling her out the window in fun, anger or whatever. It doesn't make sense. If that was the case then I'd have to conclude he had some sort of loss of reality. Maybe I'm being too soft but I can't see a loving grandfather purposely putting his grandchild in mortal danger.

Hopefully we'll learn more at his next hearing. All MOO.

 

[max99]

Honestly, IMO SA stood Chloe up on the railing and when she leaned forward to "bang on the glass" he lost his grip on her since he wasn't anticipating that she would go through and fall. Whether or not he knew it was an open window is still questionable but I don't think he meant to harm her. If he knew the window was open then maybe he was helping her lean out to see the people on the dock.

I just can't see him dangling her out the window in fun, anger or whatever. It doesn't make sense. If that was the case then I'd have to conclude he had some sort of loss of reality. Maybe I'm being too soft but I can't see a loving grandfather purposely putting his grandchild in mortal danger.

Hopefully we'll learn more at his next hearing. All MOO.

did you miss the whole "act of games" discussion?

Elmer Román, of the local Department of Public Security, said: "Police have now launched an investigation and are trawling CCTV of the ship.

"At this time (the Division of) Homicide is in place. It has not been possible to interview the family.

"It is a very strong scene, very sad and tragic.

"At one point, one of her grandparents... in an act of games, exposes the girl to the void and falls out of his hands."

beginning about page 4 of this thread....referenced many times throughout...

 

[mickey2942]

Honestly, IMO SA stood Chloe up on the railing and when she leaned forward to "bang on the glass" he lost his grip on her since he wasn't anticipating that she would go through and fall. Whether or not he knew it was an open window is still questionable but I don't think he meant to harm her. If he knew the window was open then maybe he was helping her lean out to see the people on the dock.

I just can't see him dangling her out the window in fun, anger or whatever. It doesn't make sense. If that was the case then I'd have to conclude he had some sort of loss of reality. Maybe I'm being too soft but I can't see a loving grandfather purposely putting his grandchild in mortal danger.

Hopefully we'll learn more at his next hearing. All MOO.

The question is, whose story is this? We have no idea how this played out...respectfully.

 

[MsMarple]

did you miss the whole "act of games" discussion?

Elmer Román, of the local Department of Public Security, said: "Police have now launched an investigation and are trawling CCTV of the ship.

"At this time (the Division of) Homicide is in place. It has not been possible to interview the family.

"It is a very strong scene, very sad and tragic.

"At one point, one of her grandparents... in an act of games, exposes the girl to the void and falls out of his hands."

beginning about page 4 of this thread....referenced many times throughout...

No, I haven't missed the "act of games" statement. However, I've only seen it in 2 Spanish msm articles and haven't had any luck finding the same (or similar) phrase in English-speaking msm. It may be somewhere that I've missed but I'm surprised the articles haven't quoted Elmer Román referring to some sort of horseplay.
Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan
Rompen el silencio los padres de Chloé, la niña que murió al caer al vacío en un crucero

Elmer Román is quoted in English-speaking msm but there's no reference to an "act of games" or anything resembling the phrase.

As Chloe Wiegand's family accompanied the toddler's body home to Indiana, Puerto Rico's Public Security Secretary Elmer Román said "multiple angles" are being looked at in her death, including possible negligence by Royal Caribbean Cruises.

"That is part of the investigation. Once the result is determined, we will report," Román said, adding that exploring numerous possibilities is "part of the process" in such investigations.

Toddler's Death Probe Includes Cruise Scrutiny: Official

As Chloe Wiegand's family accompanied the toddler's body home to Indiana, Puerto Rico's Public Security Secretary Elmer Román said "multiple angles" are being looked at in her death, including possible negligence by Royal Caribbean Cruises.

"That is part of the investigation. Once the result is determined, we will report," Román said, adding that exploring numerous possibilities is "part of the process" in such investigations.

https://wsbt.com/news/local/official-girls-death-probe-includes-cruise-line-scrutiny
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...in-cruise-ship-fall-to-get-police-escort-home

That's why I'm hoping we'll learn more about possible horseplay on the grandfather's part.

For me personally I'm finding it difficult to imagine him purposely hanging Chloe out an open window. It doesn't mean I believe he bears no responsibility; quite the opposite as I strongly believe he had no business hoisting her up onto a railing in the first place and this garbage about letting her bang on glass is ridiculous. I wouldn't let this man near any of my little relatives. But I'm not convinced he actually dangled Chloe out the window. MOO.

 

[MsFacetious]

I dunno, mother’s play chicken with toddlers after all.... so anything is possible.

Woman Allegedly Playing ‘Chicken’ With Her Kids Runs Over and Kills 3-Year-Old Son

 

[mickey2942]

I dunno, mother’s play chicken with toddlers after all.... so anything is possible.

Woman Allegedly Playing ‘Chicken’ With Her Kids Runs Over and Kills 3-Year-Old Son

Darwinism in action, survival of the fastest.

 

[Montrealaise]

I dunno, mother’s play chicken with toddlers after all.... so anything is possible.

Woman Allegedly Playing ‘Chicken’ With Her Kids Runs Over and Kills 3-Year-Old Son

Wow - thank you for the link. It does make it not entirely implausible that SA dangled Chloe out the window as part of a game.

 

[jjenny]

What if Vic & Perp were Not Related?

@sl222 bbm sbm Excellent point. Reading about crim (or non crim) cases, I ask myself what if --
1) Vic was someone else, G'pa still the Perp?
What if G'pa had befriended a passenger-couple & picked up their toddler w permission, and this had happened? Would anyone say -
a) oh, he looooooves children, just a little slip up, cannot blame him?
b) parents had no reason to trust him, never should have let G'pa pick up toddler? Blame them?
c) parents had no reason not to trust him, just fine to let him pick up toddler? All G'pa's fault?
d) what if this had happened 30 sec after G'pa picked her up? 30 min? What if they had been at same seating, all meals, hung out for 3 days of cruise? Make a difference?
e) other variations?

2) Perp was someone else, Chloe Still the Vic?
What if Chloe's parents befriended a passenger, said okay to picking her up, this happened. Would anyone say -
a) oh, dude looooves children, just a litle slip up, cannot blame him?
b) Chloe's parents had no reason to trust him, never should have let dude pick up toddler? Blame them?
c) Chloe's parents had no reason not to trust him, just fine to let him pick up toddler? All dude's fault?
d) what if this had happened 30 sec after dude picked her up? 30 min? What if they had been at same seating, all meals, hung out for 3 days of cruise? Make a difference?
e) other variations?

Just thinking of case April 2019, Mall of American, in MN, man, a total stranger picked up 5 y/o, NO permission, tossed over waist high rail, down 3 floors. Boy survived.

If grandpa wasn't a relative, I think people would be expecting charges and a prison term. With relatives, it's almost always "haven't they suffered enough" if something happens to the child. It's assumed relatives already suffered so charges aren't warranted. Not so with unrelated person.

 

[borndem]

I am actually interested in seeing the video. Macabre as that sounds. Was it like MJ when he dangled Blanket off the balcony? What really happened? Inquiring minds want to know...

What occurred right before the incident? Were they playing? Sitting? Was Chloe crying? Was SA trying to distract Chloe? Was this more sinister? Was Chloe crying and SA was frustrated with the toddler? There are so many variables and interpretations to this event.

People have put their own "spin" on the story, with absolutely zero evidence or knowledge about the situation. Maybe SA wasn't "playing", maybe he was really angry and frustrated...we don't know. Before making any comments for or against SA, I would like to see some empirical evidence.

I, too, would like to see it, just to find out which of the 49 or so different versions is correct. I can close my eyes or hit the button as soon as IT happens so I won't have nightmares.

I would also really like to see what truly happened between granddad and granddaughter, how different the open/closed windows looked, how/where he actually put her on or near the window, how the little girl was sitting, how close to each of them any other people may have been, etc., etc.

I guess it won't be shown to the public outside of the courtroom, if it comes to that... So we wait...

 

[they'll get you]

Was grandfather active on Facebook?



A court in Algeria has sentenced a man to two years in prison for dangling a baby out of a window in order to attract "likes" on Facebook.

The man posted a picture of himself holding the baby out of a window in a high-rise building with the caption: "1,000 likes or I will drop him."

It prompted other social media users to demand his arrest for child abuse.

He was charged with endangering the baby's safety following his arrest on Sunday, police said

Man jailed for dangling baby from window

 

[al66pine]

Nominee for Father of the Year?

....
View attachment 215926
A court in Algeria has sentenced a man to two years in prison for dangling a baby out of a window in order to attract "likes" on Facebook.

Man jailed for dangling baby from window

. @they'll get you More from article.
"The child's father urged the court to forgive the man, saying he had just been playing a game. However, the judge ruled against him, saying the picture was clear and the child's life was in danger." bbm ubm

What games does Dad play w this baby?
--- Use bow & arrow to shoot apple off baby's head?
--- Move a car back and forth in driveway (like Mom a few posts up), to play chicken?
--- Russian roulette? / sarc

 

[MsFacetious]

OMG. That's horrifying.
What on earth possesses people to do something so stupid....

 

[katydid23]

OMG. That's horrifying.
What on earth possesses people to do something so stupid....

HEY, he needed those 1000 likes on FaceBook. If he had to put his baby in mortal danger, so be it, as long as he got those clicks....

 

[MsFacetious]

HEY, he needed those 1000 likes on FaceBook. If he had to put his baby in mortal danger, so be it, as long as he got those clicks....

But.... it wasn't even HIS BABY.
But.... the Dad of the baby defended him....
I feel like I'm not living in reality here.

 

[they'll get you]

But.... it wasn't even HIS BABY.
But.... the Dad of the baby defended him....
I feel like I'm not living in reality here.

Parents are defending the step-grandfather

...two years in prison for dangling a baby out of a window

This child lived. Chloé didn’t.
Man jailed for dangling baby from window