IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[SaguaroSpirit]

Does SA's employer say SA is colorblind ?
Would it not affect his job ??
Sorry but I'm sensing a big load of hog wash.

*Bold and Color By Me* There's such a supply for all of us to wash our hogs with a big load of it left over! Maybe we can wash some hogs over in Austin, Texas...

 

[they'll get you]

I had a good look for any cameras along the ceiling and the only ones I saw were at the sliding doors, front and back.
There are no cameras around where Chloe was, that I could see. What I thought were cameras are only spot lights.

 

[SouthAussie]

I had a good look for any cameras along the ceiling and the only ones I saw were at the sliding doors, front and back.
There are no cameras around where Chloe was, that I could see. What I thought were cameras are only spot lights.

I think the witness testimony will be pretty important. I read in a link (that I cannot find now) that a crew member saw him and ran to get someone to deal with him (perhaps to get a customer liaison person or lifeguard from that deck? it didn't say) ..... and then Chloe fell.

I also don't recall why the crew member ran to get someone ... if it was because he was breaching the 'rail rule' or breaching some other rule. Wish I could find the link again!

 

[they'll get you]

This dear little girl had to be seriously leaning out of that window in order to fall, if she was sitting on that wooden guardrail.

Your pics are great. They really present a very clear picture.

Any chance you will be sending them to all of the MSM in the US?
I think they need a reality check.

Anyone can use those pictures for the betterment and benefit for Chloe’s justice.
Go for it! Please.

 

[jeena]

I remember when SA said this during the interview, and I commented on it here. It sounded (to me) that SA had been told that his colorblindness might have been to blame, even though there had been no mention of it previously. Interviewer brought it up so that SA could mention it - probably as instructed by his legal team. If his colorblindness is such a major issue, why is he allowed to drive? And, now there might be other "medical issues" that will be brought up at trial? If SA's "health status" is a concern, why on earth was he charged with caring for a toddler on a cruise ship?

 

[jeena]

@bettydaviseyes....I read that an Indiana driver must be able to recognize the colors of a traffic signal in order to get a driver's license. I wonder if Indiana will be looking to take his driver's license away since he is claiming color blindness?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

This turn of events seems to explain a lot. It seems like what Chloe's parents want is money - which SA couldn't really give - so SA is doing whatever will advance the civil case even if it's not in his own best legal interest. I found it highly unusual that Winkleman wasn't representing SA but doing many things that impact his criminal case. It seems like Chloe's parents would prefer money, but if that doesn't happen they'll do things that can send SA away to prison. He should have taken the plea deal, but it sounds like Chloe's prosecutor mom is in ultimate charge and is putting the civil litigation ahead of what is in the best legal interest of SA or else he would have taken the deal and ran, which is probably what his criminal defense attorney said but the criminal attorney isn't at the top of the pecking order.

 

[MsMarple]

This turn of events seems to explain a lot. It seems like what Chloe's parents want is money - which SA couldn't really give - so SA is doing whatever will advance the civil case even if it's not in his own best legal interest. I found it highly unusual that Winkleman wasn't representing SA but doing many things that impact his criminal case. It seems like Chloe's parents would prefer money, but if that doesn't happen they'll do things that can send SA away to prison. He should have taken the plea deal, but it sounds like Chloe's prosecutor mom is in ultimate charge and is putting the civil litigation ahead of what is in the best legal interest of SA or else he would have taken the deal and ran, which is probably what his criminal defense attorney said but the criminal attorney isn't at the top of the pecking order.

SA has time to consider the plea deal. Can't wait to see what he chooses. If he decides to go to trial I'm hard pressed to believe it's because of principles. MOO.

 

[they'll get you]

I think the interview I watched he said he saw her entire fall.

But then, he also said she disappeared and he was looking around for her? Please correct me if I am mistaken.

This is what he said. Both versions that don’t cut it.

IMO my guess would be that it would take 2-3 seconds to fall that distance and he said he saw her ‘fall all the way down’ so he must have been looking out that window at the time. That split second of shock, unable to turn away before reality

 

[jeena]

This turn of events seems to explain a lot. It seems like what Chloe's parents want is money - which SA couldn't really give - so SA is doing whatever will advance the civil case even if it's not in his own best legal interest. I found it highly unusual that Winkleman wasn't representing SA but doing many things that impact his criminal case. It seems like Chloe's parents would prefer money, but if that doesn't happen they'll do things that can send SA away to prison. He should have taken the plea deal, but it sounds like Chloe's prosecutor mom is in ultimate charge and is putting the civil litigation ahead of what is in the best legal interest of SA or else he would have taken the deal and ran, which is probably what his criminal defense attorney said but the criminal attorney isn't at the top of the pecking order.

It might be in the best financial interest of SA not to accept the plea deal. He could have been offered part of the settlement by KW if he goes to trial and is found not guilty, provided KW wins her case against RCCL. A few months in a PR jail for a few million, not too bad! If he's found guilty, he can always author a book, go on the TV circuit, and sell the movie rights for financial gain from this tragedy. It's the American way, right?

 

[they'll get you]

It’s a movable feast ....a changing story.
It fails
IMO

Throw enough mud and some might stick, somewhere.

 

[they'll get you]

Also she was still of the age when a child’s head is larger in proportion to rest of their body. All she had to do was fling her head toward the opening coupled with the fact that he is NOW saying he only had one hand on her ( so HE could bang on the glass).

MOO

Interesting thought BeachSky, could it be he leant forward to bang and because there was no glass, his momentum took Chloe forward with him.

 

[jeena]

Does anyone think CW could have opened the window herself while SA was holding her, like slide it open with her foot since it sounds like SA wasn't paying full attention to her? I don't know with the measurements of the window distance and CW's legs if it would be physically possible. The only reason I bring this up is because SA said "the glass disappeared." Could SA have seen the glass initially, then CW slid it open a few seconds later? The more I think about this case, I don't think throwing SA in the slammer accomplishes anything, it won't bring CW back, SA doesn't need rehabilitation, he's not a threat to society, etc. Maybe a hefty fine for breaking the safety rules on the ship would suffice? SA will be in a mental prison his entire life anyway, the prison of guilt.

 

[katydid23]

It might be in the best financial interest of SA not to accept the plea deal. He could have been offered part of the settlement by KW if he goes to trial and is found not guilty, provided KW wins her case against RCCL. A few months in a PR jail for a few million, not too bad! If he's found guilty, he can always author a book, go on the TV circuit, and sell the movie rights for financial gain from this tragedy. It's the American way, right?

But what if there is no money from the civil suit? I don't think there will be.

I think if the family had ADMITTED some guilt on grandpa's part, and just wanted some partial responsibility from the cruise lines, they might have had a payoff of some kind.

But they have been so aggressive, so publicly accusatory, laying the entire blame at the feet of RCCL--basically calling them out and out murderers. ---"If it wasn't for RCCL's negligence our baby would still be alive to go see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday"

The aggressive nature of their publicity tour prevents RCCL from extending any conciliatory offers and agreeing to any kind of mutual deals. It would make the cruise line look like they are admitting to negligent manslaughter if they met this family halfway.

Especially if Grandpa is going to reject a deal as good as prosecutors just offered---No jail time, if he just admits to some personal responsibility for the tragic outcome.

His decision to go to trial means he wants a big payout and is willing to gamble his freedom on that.

 

[jeena]

But what if there is no money from the civil suit? I don't think there will be.

I think if the family had ADMITTED some guilt on grandpa's part, and just wanted some partial responsibility from the cruise lines, they might have had a payoff of some kind.

But they have been so aggressive, so publicly accusatory, laying the entire blame at the feet of RCCL--basically calling them out and out murderers. ---"If it wasn't for RCCL's negligence our baby would still be alive to go see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday"

The aggressive nature of their publicity tour prevents RCCL from extending any conciliatory offers and agreeing to any kind of mutual deals. It would make the cruise line look like they are admitting to negligent manslaughter if they met this family halfway.

Especially if Grandpa is going to reject a deal as good as prosecutors just offered---No jail time, if he just admits to some personal responsibility for the tragic outcome.

His decision to go to trial means he wants a big payout and is willing to gamble his freedom on that.

But what if there is no money from the civil suit? I don't think there will be.

I think if the family had ADMITTED some guilt on grandpa's part, and just wanted some partial responsibility from the cruise lines, they might have had a payoff of some kind.

But they have been so aggressive, so publicly accusatory, laying the entire blame at the feet of RCCL--basically calling them out and out murderers. ---"If it wasn't for RCCL's negligence our baby would still be alive to go see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday"

The aggressive nature of their publicity tour prevents RCCL from extending any conciliatory offers and agreeing to any kind of mutual deals. It would make the cruise line look like they are admitting to negligent manslaughter if they met this family halfway.

Especially if Grandpa is going to reject a deal as good as prosecutors just offered---No jail time, if he just admits to some personal responsibility for the tragic outcome.

His decision to go to trial means he wants a big payout and is willing to gamble his freedom on that.

KW did put partial blame on SA when she said the open window was a major factor in the incident, implying there were other factors involved, imo. I agree with you, their aggressive accusations against RCCL did not work in their favor.

 

[katydid23]

Does anyone think CW could have opened the window herself while SA was holding her, like slide it open with her foot since it sounds like SA wasn't paying full attention to her? I don't know with the measurements of the window distance and CW's legs if it would be physically possible. The only reason I bring this up is because SA said "the glass disappeared." Could SA have seen the glass initially, then CW slid it open a few seconds later? The more I think about this case, I don't think throwing SA in the slammer accomplishes anything, it won't bring CW back, SA doesn't need rehabilitation, he's not a threat to society, etc. Maybe a hefty fine for breaking the safety rules on the ship would suffice? SA will be in a mental prison his entire life anyway, the prison of guilt.

No, I don't think that is possible.
She was a very petite 15 month old preemie . I doubt she had the leg strength to slide a big window open with her foot. And it probably has some kind of release needed to press first, before it could slide.

It would have to have been partially open already to get in the position for her little foot to slide it open, even if she did have the strength, or the knowledge, to manage that feat.
And he says she was sitting on a tiny wooden guard rail. How would she get the leverage and stability to get her leg to stretch 18 inches to the window , in a position to open a window that is bigger than her body?
I say NO, not possible.

And I did agree with you at one time, that it wasn't accomplishing anything to throw Grandpa in jail. But after they began this publicity tour, trashing the cruise line, essentially calling them negligent baby killers---I changed my position.

At this point, I think he deserves some jail time. He needs to ponder, look deeply and accept some responsibility, IMO.

 

[Trvl4Lyfe]

I think the interview I watched he said he saw her entire fall.

If that's the case that would be even more awful. But still doesn't give him the right to blame the Cruise ship.

Esp according to the picture I saw on here of the window with a railing before it. Because that means he would have extended his arms to put Chloe to that window. And that would be insane.

 

[MsMarple]

Interesting thought BeachSky, could it be he leant forward to bang and because there was no glass, his momentum took Chloe forward with him.

IMO it's possible. And to extrapolate, if the window had been closed then the same momentum would have smashed her head first into the glass. Not a good choice by SA in any circumstance.

 

[Chikkamma]

...

 

[neesaki]

Grandfather accused of dropping toddler to her death from will try to prove his color blindness | Daily Mail Online

Considering how totally unsafe and reckless he was being with precious little Chloe's life, he is shedding some tears now, isn’t he?
Hey, hear this, Chloe can’t cry anymore. We can only cry for her. :tears:

I’m sorry, this all just makes me angry that Chloes family seems to forget her just to protect him. It’s hard to accept.