IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #901
Poo. My last post didn’t post.
Short version:
He’s a gambler. Seat belts. Driving. Gaming with Chloe. What’s three years compared to kabillions of dollars?
Good. Take the bet.
He needs time in jail.
 
  • #902
G'pa SA. Can CB People Detect Shades of Brightness/Light Intensity?
IIUC, ppl w any form of colorblindness can detect varying degrees of brightness of light. Think of the disparity of brightness in a room w no windows, just a single lit candle and a lit 100 w watt bulb. Can CB person tell which one is brighter? Yes, ITS. What about a candle and a 4 watt nightlight? ITS. Can CB ppl detect smaller disparities of light? Like the ship windows?

On ship, light shining thru open window was brighter than light coming thru adjacent tinted windows, so a person, even w CB, could detect the difference and know the window allowing more light thru was an open window.

G'pa's claim that his CB caused him to think there was glass there (meaning window was fixed or closed) and thus caused Chloe to fall is, well, pretty lame jmo.


All imo, and I'd appreciate one of our medical/vision professionals weighing in to correct or clarify.
@mickey2942 Others????
 
  • #903
I
G'pa SA. Can CB People Detect Shades of Brightness/Light Intensity?
IIUC, ppl w any form of colorblindness can detect varying degrees of brightness of light. Think of the disparity of brightness in a room w no windows, just a single lit candle and a lit 100 w watt bulb. Can CB person tell which one is brighter? Yes, ITS. What about a candle and a 4 watt nightlight? ITS. Can CB ppl detect smaller disparities of light? Like the ship windows?

On ship, light shining thru open window was brighter than light coming thru adjacent tinted windows, so a person, even w CB, could detect the difference and know the window allowing more light thru was an open window.

G'pa's claim that his CB caused him to think there was glass there (meaning window was fixed or closed) and thus caused Chloe to fall is, well, pretty lame jmo.


All imo, and I'd appreciate one of our medical/vision professionals weighing in to correct or clarify.
@mickey2942 Others????
I agree.

I read a bunch on it while waiting at the DMV. From what I gather, the issue is being able to distinguish various colours from each other.

So if he wanted to say he couldn't tell green windows from red windows, or yellow from blue---then YES, he has a good defense.

But open windows are CLEAR---and as you say, more brightly lit, and there would be a breeze and strong smell of sea , most likely.

So I don't see how color blindness is going to save him.
 
Last edited:
  • #904
So the CB thing is yet another excuse for what happened.
Oh boy, what’s next ? Hmmmmm
 
  • #905
I agree.

I read a bunch on it while waiting at the DMV. From what I gather, the issue is being able to distinguish varies colours from each other.

So if he wanted to say he couldn't tell green windows from red windows, or yellow from blue---then YES, he has a good defense.

But open windows are CLEAR---and as you say, more brightly lit, and there would be a breeze and strong smell of sea , most likely.

So I don't see how color blindness is going to save him.

Just really have to hope that he gets a smart jury. A jury without any people who will think "poor grandpa" instead of "poor Chloe".
 
  • #906
Just really have to hope that he gets a smart jury. A jury without any people who will think "poor grandpa" instead of "poor Chloe".
I think RCCL will have attorneys who are very experienced at making that distinction.

They have defended the corporation from children dying in swimming pools and falling off balconies, and drunk people falling off the decks into the water.

And they have to defend themselves while also questioning the surviving family members on the stand. So they have to ask a grieving wife or mother how much their deceased loved one drank that night, and if they were sitting on the railing or purposely jumping off the deck.

It is a very hard job, to not 'attack' the grieving witnesses and turn off the jury, but to still get to the truth about the circumstances.

So I think this family might be surprised at how experienced and skilful this defense team will be.

They will use use ALL of these public statements and media interviews AGAINST grandpa because of the inconsistencies.

And the holes that we see in his stories---- the defense team will drive a truck through them.

They will have power point presentations showing how impossible it would be for that sweet baby to fall out that window if it happened the way he tries to explain it. She would fall down inside of the ship if it was as he described, with her sitting on the guard rail and falling down.

She had to be pushed forward, out of the open window ledge, to end up on the pavement. That will be clear to the jury. And color blindness will not save him in that case. Even if there was a window there, if he had set her on the guard rail, then pushed himself forward, she would have been pushed into the glass, and still been injured, considering how fragile she was, compared to him.
 
  • #907
I have a question for those who know PR and USA law better than me.

If he took the plea deal would there be anything in place to stop him selling his story, pleading innocence, slandering RCCL and PR legal system, continuing this charade until people stop paying to interview etc?
 
  • #908
From what I understand, IF he accepts plea deal, he has to stand before the judge in open court, be sworn in, and 'confess' to his part in this tragedy. He could claim he thought the window was open, but he would have to tell a story that fits with the video footage.

He'd have to explain why he picked up the child and stood her on the guard rail, and all of the other poor choices and actions that ultimately led to her death.

After doing so, it would be hard to plead innocence and slander RCCL, and I think it could void his plea deal if he broke certain agreements of the deal.
 
  • #909
Let me see if I have this straight...

If this goes to trial, is the defense going to be that SA randomly chose the ONLY open window in an entire wall of closed windows, didn’t understand that a guardrail is a universal symbol of precaution, didn’t interpret the 1ft distance of the guardrail from the window as an additional indicator of precaution, proceeded to put his granddaughter above AND OVER the guardrail (per David Begnaud), then didn’t notice the 2inches of window with the handle still in the frame (since the window can’t be slid open 100%), didn’t notice the absence of tint in the frame in front of him (compared to the other windows), didn’t notice the stifling humidity, didn’t feel the wind on his face, and did not hear the sounds from the loading dock below?

Have I missed anything?
This, right here is why I have a problem believing what happened was accidental.
 
  • #910
I think RCCL will have attorneys who are very experienced at making that distinction.

They have defended the corporation from children dying in swimming pools and falling off balconies, and drunk people falling off the decks into the water.

And they have to defend themselves while also questioning the surviving family members on the stand. So they have to ask a grieving wife or mother how much their deceased loved one drank that night, and if they were sitting on the railing or purposely jumping off the deck.

It is a very hard job, to not 'attack' the grieving witnesses and turn off the jury, but to still get to the truth about the circumstances.

So I think this family might be surprised at how experienced and skilful this defense team will be.

They will use use ALL of these public statements and media interviews AGAINST grandpa because of the inconsistencies.

And the holes that we see in his stories---- the defense team will drive a truck through them.

They will have power point presentations showing how impossible it would be for that sweet baby to fall out that window if it happened the way he tries to explain it. She would fall down inside of the ship if it was as he described, with her sitting on the guard rail and falling down.

She had to be pushed forward, out of the open window ledge, to end up on the pavement. That will be clear to the jury. And color blindness will not save him in that case. Even if there was a window there, if he had set her on the guard rail, then pushed himself forward, she would have been pushed into the glass, and still been injured, considering how fragile she was, compared to him.
BBM ^^THIS^^
 
  • #911
I’ve never been on a cruise so all of my information/knowledge comes from other sources. (Btw= my coworkers who have cruised ALL sympathize with family and say they deserve to win $ for cruise ship negligence. I’m shocked and don’t agree at all, but have never been one one, so can’t really argue.).

I am speechless after seeing the picture posted last night by our WS member on her cruise right now. The space between the window and the rail? Was it measured? How could a child fall outside if hey were on the ledge without being pushed or nudged? Now in no way do I think SA intentionally pushed her out, so I’m confused. Certainly she wasn’t on the WINDOW sill?
 
  • #912
I’ve never been on a cruise so all of my information/knowledge comes from other sources. (Btw= my coworkers who have cruised ALL sympathize with family and say they deserve to win $ for cruise ship negligence. I’m shocked and don’t agree at all, but have never been one one, so can’t really argue.).

I am speechless after seeing the picture posted last night by our WS member on her cruise right now. The space between the window and the rail? Was it measured? How could a child fall outside if hey were on the ledge without being pushed or nudged? Now in no way do I think SA intentionally pushed her out, so I’m confused. Certainly she wasn’t on the WINDOW sill?

I could see SA holding Chloe with one arm, turning to look at/for something ... and the force of his turn pushing Chloe forward.
 
  • #913
Poo. My last post didn’t post.
Short version:
He’s a gambler. Seat belts. Driving. Gaming with Chloe. What’s three years compared to kabillions of dollars?
Good. Take the bet.
He needs time in jail.
<modsnip>

We have seen the photos of how SA was holding CW in an unsafe manner. I'm surprised those photos were released, not too smart of the person/s who decided to go public with them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #914
Just because CW walked to the windows with SA following behind doesn't mean it was her idea. Maybe SA told her they were leaving the pool area to go over there before she started walking toward the windows. Another thing, isn't the view better on the water side of the ship instead of looking out at the dock? What was there to see on the dock? AW said he he looked down to see if she fell into the water, would she still have been killed or could she have been rescued on time?
 
  • #915
If he is trying to say his color blindness stopped him from seeing that there was an open window, which is BS in my opinion, how many doors has he walked into during his 51 years?
My grandfather was color blind and couldn't distinguish the difference between certain colors like green and red. I've never heard in all my years on Earth that color blindness prevented a person from seeing if a window is open or closed.
If he was legally blind he would know that window was open when he leaned forward to his head out, twice. Not to mention the breeze coming through.
 
  • #916
Interesting thought BeachSky, could it be he leant forward to bang and because there was no glass, his momentum took Chloe forward with him.
MOO I don’t buy the “bang on the glass” story because it wasn’t mentioned until he lawyered up. And the photo of Chloe banging on the glass at the hockey game showed her standing and banging, no one was picking her up to bang higher on the glass. If she wanted to bang on the glass he didn’t have to pick her up, she could have banged on glass below the open window.

MOO
 
  • #917
All the windows in voyager of the seas still open so that tells me RCCL remains confident.

Voyager has been through a refurbishment and I’ve noticed the chairs sit closer together creating a bit more of a barrier, it’s harder to get closer to the windows but still accessible.
View attachment 220655
I’m only using my phone and unfortunately many of the pics are too large to download. Sorry if some are sideways. More to come.
Awesome!
 
  • #918
@bettydaviseyes....I read that an Indiana driver must be able to recognize the colors of a traffic signal in order to get a driver's license. I wonder if Indiana will be looking to take his driver's license away since he is claiming color blindness?

I started to respond to this post yesterday but took a phone call and was away from the site for a while. DD's piano teacher from 4th through 8th grade was colorblind. I asked him how he was able to drive, and he indicated that he could distinguish the red/green lights based on their placement on light posts. He also said that it was easier to distinguish illumination when driving at night. The colorblindness was noted on his driver's license along with the need for corrective lenses (he always wore glasses).
 
  • #919
  • #920
I have reported my own post to see if we can speak of the video, seeing that it is posted on the TV show's FB page.
The TV show is classified on Wiki as a popular news TV show.

We can speak of it if you link the news FB page
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
919
Total visitors
1,055

Forum statistics

Threads
632,406
Messages
18,626,044
Members
243,140
Latest member
raezofsunshine83
Back
Top