IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[sl222]

My impression was he was leaning so far over she was almost horizontal, like superman style, as he held her with one arm around her waist and under her stomach, with his fist by her outer rib cage. She was for sure on the window *ledge* - not the railing.

If so, I wonder if he was telling her she's flying, or saying to her the phrase "I'm the king of the world" like in "Titanic" at that point.

She does appear to be in a standing position or being held at the waist and her legs dangled. When he leans forward he pushes her out. How can he not know that. I hope there is footage from the outside or footage that shows exactly what happened and whatever they have, the defense has been given long ago.

The witnesses or footage or both have said she was being rocked in an act of games. I believe this. Lifting her up so high above his head, there's no telling where her feet will go, if they get caught up behind the window ledge at some point; if they were at any point outside the window ledge, but IMO she was outside the ship. There's no doubt that she was held in a position to be dropped. It does look like she was shoved either by his arms or his body. As a previous poster said, he let go of his grip of her not just one time. You can see his one arm is coming back into the ship. For what he did to Chloe he has been given the easy treatment all around with the charges and with a plea deal.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I can't imagine letting a toddler run around loose with all those adults milling about either.

Exactly! Chloe required much better supervision than SA provided. It's frightening to think about all of the dangers there were during those seconds after Chloe walked away from Grandpa who stopped to take a break for whatever reason.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If so, I wonder if he was telling her she's flying, or saying to her the phrase "I'm the king of the world" like in "Titanic" at that point....

<respectfully snipped>

I thought of both points There were many people nearby during SA's "stunt", and I wonder if anyone heard him say anything to Chloe.

 

[SouthAussie]

"The U.S. Coast Guard is responsible for cruise ship safety. Although each cruise ship is subject to the vessel inspection laws of the country in which it is registered, as a condition of permitting the vessels to take on passengers at U.S. ports, the Coast Guard requires the ships to meet the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea and other international regulations. Among other things, these regulations concern structural fire protection, firefighting and lifesaving equipment, watercraft integrity and stability, vessel control, navigation safety, crewing and crew competency, safety management and environmental protection. The Coast Guard conducts routine onboard inspections of cruise ships to ensure compliance with applicable laws and regulations."

Passenger Cruise Ship Information

 

[MsMarple]

From what I have read in the lawsuit filing, they are not even acknowledging that it is a guardrail (probably because it didn't have a sign on it stating its purpose ). The guardrail is mentioned several times, as a wooden rail or as a railing.

Apparently they have also presumed, on Chloe's behalf, that she thought the window was closed as well.


1. The wall of glass featured three rows of glass, floor to ceiling, with a wooden rail between the middle and bottom rows ...
2. In addition, the wooden rail located between the middle and bottom rows was approximately 18 inches in from the glass pane window.
3. Due to the distance between Mr. Anello standing at the wooden rail and the glass pane 18 inches in front of him, it was not apparent to Mr. Anello that the glass pane in front of him was, in fact, a window that had been slid all the way open ....
4. A photograph depicting the distance between the window and the railing is below ....
5. Mr. Anello then lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held Chloe while she leaned forward to bang on the glass that Mr. Anello and Chloe thought to be in front of them.


Reference:
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI DIVISION
WRONGFUL DEATH COMPLAINT AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
Case 1:19-cv-25100-DLG
Entered on FLSD Docket 12/11/2019

Ugh, I'll say it again - no matter how many times Winkleman refers to the windows as a "wall of glass" or calls the window "a glass plane" it doesn't change the fact that the middle row contained windows, not glass planes not a wall of glass. Windows. That can open.

And considering how far out SA leaned did he also miss the handle and the several inches of window frame clearly visible in other pictures? Color blindness cannot explain him not seeing that.

The second video (side view) IMO is more damning than the first as we can now see how far out SA leaned. I'm 5'4'' and doing a few mock ups of leaning over a railing puts my head between 4" to 6" away from the window. My arm would easily reach outside. SA is taller and would have been closer and maybe even could get his head right out the window.
From that distance how did he not recognize the window was open?

 

[SouthAussie]

From that distance how did he not recognize the window was open?

RSBM

I think he clearly knew the window was open because it looks, to me, that his head was right out of the window.

An Aussie MSM publication have sort of put the two published videos together into one brief video, I think mostly to highlight SA's actions. It is at the start of this article.
It seems far less grainy than the other copies I have seen.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

Hopefully it can be opened and viewed in the US. I know that sometimes there are viewing restrictions between different countries.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

^ Thank you for sharing the new video. I get chills watching SA lean out the open window and then lift Chloe up and place her outside the window frame. HE KNEW THAT WINDOW WAS OPEN!

 

[sl222]

In watching the video, I think he may have lied when he said he saw her fall "all the way down." It doesn't look like that was true. He was already on the floor himself while she was still falling. IMO.

 

[Barnabas]

The way he was wiggling around it sure looks to me like he was dangling her or shaking her around a little outside that window.

 

[Kakidoll]

There is NO way he did NOT know that window was open. Not even a 1% chance. Lies from the start. Now to dig as to was it accidental, purposeful, or just plain stupid

 

[Kakidoll]

Parents know. They've seen it. Now saying they didn't want it released because of their son. Yet they still want the money. Nope, no way, no how. Just how long HAVE they known what was on that video? I believe a very long time.

 

[sl222]

Why was it so important for SA to make the point in the CBS interview that he saw her fall all the way down? Was he asked that question (doubtful) or did he bring this up. Statement analysis experts would say that whatever point the person raises is very important. That was a point about his suffering IMO. Not hers.

 

[sl222]

Exactly! Chloe required much better supervision than SA provided. It's frightening to think about all of the dangers there were during those seconds after Chloe walked away from Grandpa who stopped to take a break for whatever reason.

Exactly, most people would be holding their grandchild's hand, especially if she had just walked so far away like she did when she was heading to the window. She was allowed to walk right behind groups of people sitting at tables with their backs to her, who could suddenly back up their chairs right into her, and then into the hall where people are walking.

Again as I posted earlier, from the pool, she made a beeline following the man who went directly from the pool to the window, and then continued to go straight to the same window after she and SA stopped by the pillar for a minute. How did she even know about the window when she was over at the pool?

 

[oviedo]

RSBM

I think he clearly knew the window was open because it looks, to me, that his head was right out of the window.

An Aussie MSM publication have sort of put the two published videos together into one brief video, I think mostly to highlight SA's actions. It is at the start of this article.
It seems far less grainy than the other copies I have seen.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

Hopefully it can be opened and viewed in the US. I know that sometimes there are viewing restrictions between different countries.

Thanks I can view it - honestly I don’t think this lawsuit should move forward else they might get a counter-complaint
JMO

 

[LietKynes]

Thanks I can view it - honestly I don’t think this lawsuit should move forward else they might get a counter-complaint
JMO

It's surprising that there hasn't been a counter suit by RCCL before now.
They would be within their rights, correct ?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Been gone all day at the VA...trying to catch up.

 

[lonetraveler]

The jury will see a very clear version. And from different cameras, and different POVs.

I am curious why Winkelman thought he could prevent the video from being shown during the trial. What legal reason would there be to deny that?

Actually, I think he was and is hoping that RCCL would settle before the video ever hit the internet.

 

[MsFacetious]

Has the prosecution verified that he was offered a plea deal?

 

[oviedo]

It's surprising that there hasn't been a counter suit by RCCL before now.
They would be within their rights, correct ?

They have 20 days to file their answer from the date they were served with the lawsuit

 

[oviedo]

Has the prosecution verified that he was offered a plea deal?

not that I can find in MSM