IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[crhedBngr]

I knew DM would come thru for us

Video shows grandfather dropping toddler to her death from cruise ship window | Daily Mail Online

WOW.

I have words, but I'll sit on my hands . . .

 

[crhedBngr]

Video shows grandfather dropping toddler to her death from cruise ship window | Daily Mail Online

Check out the 9:30 - he literally has half his body out the window.

Yep. Indeed.

 

[LietKynes]

Looks like gramps is going to fight this and 'clear' his name.... smh.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Is it possible CW was dropped earlier in the video than most people think, like right after he lifted her?

Worth consideration as it would have given SA time to plan his (bad) acting scene: Fall on his knees, fake grief, shock, and crying, while woefully exclaiming, "I dropped my child!"

I think there might be additional video footage from other vantage points than those currently circulating in the media. Cruise ships have exterior surveillance cams as well as interior. It's entirely possible that there is video of SA leaning out the window prior to lifting Chloe, as well as her being presented in the open window. I think there is also video surveillance from several perspectives on the dock. PR authorities are closely guarding all of their evidence, and I feel certain that they have much more confirmation of SA's negligence that is currently available to the public.

 

[crhedBngr]

Is it possible he had a cigarette at first and threw it out of the ship?

He strikes me as someone who smokes marijuana often and plays a lot of video games. Similar to the kind of 30-ish adult child who refuses to move out of the house. Except he's 51, married to the same person most of his life, gainfully employed, and aside from repeatedly driving without a seatbelt, no other negative info on him exists. He may normally be a super friendly, straight-arrow guy. The rest of the family seems like very nice people for the most part, particularly Mr. Weigand, aside from blaming RCCL (and we've noted perhaps this effort isn't necessarily steered by him).

I'm not putting down pot smokers, just referring to the type who also tends to be immature and makes this a huge part of their life - which I realize sometimes happens due to medical issues and depression.

He seems like someone his wife had to police. Like a lot of wives do. If so I wouldn't be surprised. All total speculation and admittedly mean-spirited on my part... just the impression I get from him. I used to sympathize with him a lot as far as making the worst mistake you could make. And he should have never done a tv interview. Bet his attorney said no to that. This family still hasn't been thinking straight. Maybe because they are surrounded by support and encouragement in their circle of family, friends, colleagues, and of course Winkleman.

I do not think the family is going to ever drop this lawsuit; they have pursued it rigorously and it isn't costing them any money to pursue it.

RBBM

We were at a vantage point overlooking waterfalls. One older male decides he's going to show off, gets onto the concrete wall barrier and starts jumping around. Never mind the abrupt drop of several hundred feet right next to the wall.

DH and I just turned our heads and began walking away.

My point?

Some people will engage in risky behavior. All of their lives. Unfortunately, this particular act caught up with G'Pa.

JMVHO.

 

[al66pine]

Protecting Child from Release of Video? Sincerity?
Per Chloe’s Mother KW, “The family’s sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child.”* bbm
Public release of vid was (virtually) inevitable, from first rumblings of parents’ threatened wrongful death lawsuit against cruiseline and PR crim prosecution of G’pa, if either case went to trial, imo.

Did KW think that both civil lawsuit and criminal prosecution would proceed to verdict? And it would happen without public release of the most crucial evidence of events leading to the death? The very events showing the cruiseline is responsible for toddler’s death? At least, according to parents & defendant. Did she think cruiseline was going to 'lay back and take it' and not present this evd to defend itself in civil suit? Did she think PR would not use it in crim prosecution of G'pa --- videos of the actual crime as it happened? If so, naïve for an atty?

Protecting child from public release of vids? Best bets would have been:

1. For parents not to engage atty using Let’s-Try-Case-in-the-Press strategy. Too late.
   
2. For parents not to file civil lawsuit. Too late.
   
3. For KW, family, or someone (like G’pa’s crim def atty?), to persuade G’pa to plead guilty to original or lesser charge (w a stipulation re non-release of vids <----- if that’s even possible).

Thinking further about it, the vids are still cruiseline’s property, so not sure that ^ would preclude public release in the future. Would/did cruiseline release other than to PR LE? Why/why not? IDK.

^^^ Sincerity of KW’s claim about sole motivation??? ^^^

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall. <---news.com.aus Dec 19

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Looks like gramps is going to fight this and 'clear' his name.... smh.

Of course he is. They are in this for the long haul.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I think everyone is over analyzing this to death. It doesn’t matter if he’s a hippie type. Doesn’t matter if he smokes cigs or pot, or even drinks on occasion. There are plenty of people who do those things, yet would never do something as boneheaded as what he did.

 

[Chikkamma]

Looks like gramps is going to fight this and 'clear' his name.... smh.

Not necessarily. Since the video was leaked, the family (gramps included) has only made ONE statement to David Begnaud condemning its release and demanding an investigation into how it was leaked. All the quotes in recent news articles about SA rejecting the plea deal or the parents still standing behind him were given BEFORE the video was released.

It was misleading of the articles to use those same quotes after the video was released but perhaps they needed filler. I suspect SA might change his position on the proposed plea deal over the next few weeks... and that KW & AW might change theirs on supporting him after they view the video.

 

[al66pine]

Who Had the Vids? When? Who Leaked Them?

July __ RCCL had vids of events leading to Chloe's death.
July __ RCCL provided (copies?) too PR LE.
____? PR LE provided to PR prosecutor
____? after G'pa was charged, prosecutor wd/have produced vids for def atty.

___? ________who? provided some/all? to Winkleman
_____Dec 12? 15? Winkleman showed to some reporters.
Dec _? some reporters aired interviews w Wink, referring to vids, but not showing them.

______ When? Who? leaked some/all vids to La Comay/PR MegaTV,
Dec 17? La Comay/PR MegaTV, aired the vids.

Thx in adv for help on dates & theories of the Leaker's ID. Bonus points for motivation.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think everyone is over analyzing this to death. It doesn’t matter if he’s a hippie type. Doesn’t matter if he smokes cigs or pot, or even drinks on occasion. There are plenty of people who do those things, yet would never do something as boneheaded as what he did.

Of course they wouldn't, but my own perspective about the (possible) cigarette is why he himself may have leaned out of the window, and why they might have been headed for an open window in the first place. That's all.

If the prosecution know he was smoking and flicked his butt out the window, then there is another bit of proof that he knew the window was open.

 

[katydid23]

RSBM

I think he clearly knew the window was open because it looks, to me, that his head was right out of the window.

An Aussie MSM publication have sort of put the two published videos together into one brief video, I think mostly to highlight SA's actions. It is at the start of this article.
It seems far less grainy than the other copies I have seen.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

Hopefully it can be opened and viewed in the US. I know that sometimes there are viewing restrictions between different countries.

And let's pretend he thought it was CLOSED. If so, what was he doing putting the baby up over his head and onto the ledge?

How would she have been able to perch in that ledge if the glass was pulled shut? Were would her legs and feet go?

It's obvious he knew it was open because he couldn't have sat her there in the ledge if it ws closed.

liar liar pants on fire

 

[katydid23]

Actually, I think he was and is hoping that RCCL would settle before the video ever hit the internet.

yes, I think you're right. That's why they did that heavy onslaught of false info, aggressively smeared the cruise lines. They were hoping that RCCL would want to squash it quickly and throw them a few million just to end it.

 

[they'll get you]

Video shows grandfather dropping toddler to her death from cruise ship window | Daily Mail Online

Check out the 9:30 - he literally has half his body out the window.

I wonder how he is able to lean so far out unless he wanted to look down and under at the hull of the ship but even then that’s easily viewed without doing that. He seemed to be pivoting on his stomach.

IMO there’s something really wrong with this person and I’m beginning to think he could be a risk to others.

 

[they'll get you]

Actually, I think he was and is hoping that RCCL would settle before the video ever hit the internet.

ABSOLUTELY.
But then the porridge hit the fan. I’d love to thank whoever released the vid.

 

[Montrealaise]

Protecting Child from Release of Video? Sincerity?
Per Chloe’s Mother KW, “The family’s sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child.”* bbm
Public release of vid was (virtually) inevitable, from first rumblings of parents’ threatened wrongful death lawsuit against cruiseline and PR crim prosecution of G’pa, if either case went to trial, imo.

Did KW think that both civil lawsuit and criminal prosecution would proceed to verdict? And it would happen without public release of the most crucial evidence of events leading to the death? The very events showing the cruiseline is responsible for toddler’s death? At least, according to parents & defendant. Did she think cruiseline was going to 'lay back and take it' and not present this evd to defend itself in civil suit? Did she think PR would not use it in crim prosecution of G'pa --- videos of the actual crime as it happened? If so, naïve for an atty?

Protecting child from public release of vids? Best bets would have been:

1. For parents not to engage atty using Let’s-Try-Case-in-the-Press strategy. Too late.
   
2. For parents not to file civil lawsuit. Too late.
   
3. For KW, family, or someone (like G’pa’s crim def atty?), to persuade G’pa to plead guilty to original or lesser charge (w a stipulation re non-release of vids <----- if that’s even possible).

Thinking further about it, the vids are still cruiseline’s property, so not sure that ^ would preclude public release in the future. Would/did cruiseline release other than to PR LE? Why/why not? IDK.

^^^ Sincerity of KW’s claim about sole motivation??? ^^^

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall. <---news.com.aus Dec 19

If KW is upset about the release of the video because of its impact on her son - did she really think that he would never find out what his gramps did? Sooner or later, he was bound to learn what the video showed, unless the video was never released. I have a feeling that a) KW was hoping that RCCL would offer them a quick settlement just to make the publicity go away and b) she did not expect SA to be charged in criminal court. Pretty naive for a lawyer.

 

[justbreathe]

Protecting Child from Release of Video? Sincerity?
Per Chloe’s Mother KW, “The family’s sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child.”* bbm
Public release of vid was (virtually) inevitable, from first rumblings of parents’ threatened wrongful death lawsuit against cruiseline and PR crim prosecution of G’pa, if either case went to trial, imo.

Did KW think that both civil lawsuit and criminal prosecution would proceed to verdict? And it would happen without public release of the most crucial evidence of events leading to the death? The very events showing the cruiseline is responsible for toddler’s death? At least, according to parents & defendant. Did she think cruiseline was going to 'lay back and take it' and not present this evd to defend itself in civil suit? Did she think PR would not use it in crim prosecution of G'pa --- videos of the actual crime as it happened? If so, naïve for an atty?

Protecting child from public release of vids? Best bets would have been:

1. For parents not to engage atty using Let’s-Try-Case-in-the-Press strategy. Too late.
   
2. For parents not to file civil lawsuit. Too late.
   
3. For KW, family, or someone (like G’pa’s crim def atty?), to persuade G’pa to plead guilty to original or lesser charge (w a stipulation re non-release of vids <----- if that’s even possible).

Thinking further about it, the vids are still cruiseline’s property, so not sure that ^ would preclude public release in the future. Would/did cruiseline release other than to PR LE? Why/why not? IDK.

^^^ Sincerity of KW’s claim about sole motivation??? ^^^

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall. <---news.com.aus Dec 19

“Sole motivation” my arse. Everything they are doing only hurts their other child.

 

[mickey2942]

I think everyone is over analyzing this to death. It doesn’t matter if he’s a hippie type. Doesn’t matter if he smokes cigs or pot, or even drinks on occasion. There are plenty of people who do those things, yet would never do something as boneheaded as what he did.

After viewing the video, SA is lucky that the only charge has been "Negligent Homicide". Because his actions look premeditated to me. As though this was planned.

 

[drama_farmer]

I think he may have gone to the open window because he was feeling very hot, and looking for a cool breeze. If you look at the part where he backs away from the window, I can almost see him lifting up the collar of his shirt to wipe the sweat off the bottom portion of his face. The way he squatted down against that column also screams "overwhelmed hot guy" looking for a breeze. IMO. I can't explain why he dropped the baby out of the window, though.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

And let's pretend he thought it was CLOSED. If so, what was he doing putting the baby up over his head and onto the ledge?

How would she have been able to perch in that ledge if the glass was pulled shut? Were would her legs and feet go?

It's obvious he knew it was open because he couldn't have sat her there in the ledge if it ws closed.

liar liar pants on fire

Whammer Jammer , old man in the slammer.