IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[oviedo]

Similar view - this is 11 decks up - concrete pier - and he thought it was ok to hold her outside the window so what else had he been doing with her that he thought this would be fine? Does he have a 2 story house ? Holds her over a balcony ? Or what? He’s done something like this before IMO

This is the first time I’ve been able to see his actions from this angle, from behind him with a good view of little Chloe as he lifts her up and over, then out. He looked way down with his head out the window before he picked her up, then again after he does that same thing. What on earth is he looking for?
After that, it looks like he just lets go of her. Why?!!! WTH

 

[oviedo]

Thanks. Very perceptive of you to notice the same outfit in several photos. If the family actually flew to San Juan the same day, they must have gotten an awfully early start I wonder where their flight originated? Indianapolis or Chicago? Non-stop flight would be at least 5-6 hours; add time to that if they weren't on direct flight. San Juan is on Caribbean time: 2-hour time difference from Central (Indiana/Illinois). By 4:30PM (6:30PM for them), everyone was probably exhausted and ready for a nap. DH and I always fly to port city a day or two prior to cruising. It's especially necessary for winter cruises when weather issues can delay/cancel flights.

I believe they were photographed returning to Chicago ? I’d like to know what time they boarded - ours opened at 10:30am

 

[justbreathe]

I'm sorry. You said "Yikes!"? No one in their right mind would put a baby in that void right? Right!

I think the entire world can sympathize with that, and still have compassion.


You can say you sympathize. Even BBM, all you want, but clearly you don't.

"I agree that they are behaving badly" was the point you chose to emphasize.

I get it. we're all in our cozy homes, we don't have live the nightmare...

Why not pick apart the family of this dead baby? Shopping's done, a liile down time...

The family willingly opened themselves up to this criticism by going on their press tour.

 

[justice4allnow]

Every time I watch the video, and I've watched it several times, I have an immediate visceral reaction: my stomach clenches and I involuntarily catch my breath, a short sharp intake, each time that I see him lean out the window. Both when he leans alone out of the ship and when he hoists Chloe out the window. I have a healthy fear of heights and knowing that this is the 11th deck, I feel slightly sick and panicky each time that he leans. I have no idea what he was thinking at the time-his actions make no sense. I understand why he was charged and my heart breaks for that baby and for anyone who loved her. The case has generated a lot of emotion here too, but I think that everyone will agree that 1) this was avoidable and that 2) no reasonable person would duplicate his actions.

 

[justbreathe]

For the record, they didn't start a single ***. Friends and family started those acounts trying to help.

Just like when Olympic Skier Bode, lost his little girl, and there was a huge outcry... How could such a wealthy couple beg for money?!

They didnt. People wanted to help and they started those accounts on behalf of the family.

And it really doesn't matter or take anything away from the rest of us.

As for slamming the cruise the line? I would despise the Cruise line where my baby died.

May not be "rational" ot fair. But I wouldn't give a fck.

I would also despise the person who dropped my baby out a window. Even if that was not rational or fair. But in this case it is.

 

[justbreathe]

The video is so damning, I'm stunned.
When I started watching it I didn't think it would be clear enough to really see what happened, but I was shocked. Grandpa leans almost his entire upper body out of the open window before picking up Chloe and pretty much chucking her out the window. He has her entire body outside the open window.

The parents’ press tour while, as far as I know, still refusing to watch the video of what happened, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Their defense of SA without even knowing exactly what he did makes me feel Chloe, the little girl who lost her whole life that she deserved, has been forgotten.

And why they would do this instead of focusing on their son is beyond me.

 

[justbreathe]

BBM. I disagree with you and so does my Puerto Rican son-in-law. The Puerto Rican economy is in dire straits. Multiple government officials have resigned because of accusations of corruption. What better way to retaliate against a cruise line than arresting one of their guests for his conduct while docked in San Juan?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/international-business/article238590978.html

JMO

What? You think SA’s prosecution is *retaliation* against the cruise line?

I’m under the impression the criminal charges against SA only help the cruise line’s defense in the civil suit.

Am I missing something?

 

[justbreathe]

" The result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be".
Then that would be every window on the ship, since there are no child-free zones on the ship that I know of. In fact, why stop at ships? Why make sure that no windows in any building, even houses, can ever be opened, on the chance that an adult could lift a child up and out the window? I respect your opinion, but the problem was not the open window (which was high up, out of reach of any child) but the adult who for unknown reasons thought it was a good idea to hold a child out of the window.

This is a boat, not a building. Good luck with windows that don’t open next time 2 ships run into each other, or something else, and sinks. How are people to get off? Sealing windows on the second highest deck of a ship in the middle of the ocean makes no sense at all.

 

[justbreathe]

JMOO but you would think that they would have wanted to be part of the investigation right after the incident. To find out EXACTLY what happened to their child, since none of them were present to witness it.

Oh no, they won’t even watch the video. But they *know* SA would never do anything to harm their child. /s

 

[Arkay]

" The result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be".
Then that would be every window on the ship, since there are no child-free zones on the ship that I know of. In fact, why stop at ships? Why make sure that no windows in any building, even houses, can ever be opened, on the chance that an adult could lift a child up and out the window? I respect your opinion, but the problem was not the open window (which was high up, out of reach of any child) but the adult who for unknown reasons thought it was a good idea to hold a child out of the window.

ABSOLUTELY! That's why children have caregivers. We cannot create a world in which there is no jeopardy, so children must depend on their parents, grandparents, guardians and so on to keep them safe. To go further, should cars be banned because a child can run into the street and be hit? It's because a caregiver failed a child so recklessly that we cannot accept what SA has done.

Most ships I've been on have an adults-only area with its own pools, snack bars etc. On Royal Carib it's called Serenity, unless Serenity is the one on Celebrity. I may not remember which is which because I've been on four different cruise lines, but it is a typical offering, and they have day camp type places with counselors to watch the children. There are also teen clubs. When I first began cruising in the 1970s, I don't remember them having an adults only area, but now it's come to be an expected amenity.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...Most ships I've been on have an adults-only area with its own pools, snack bars etc. On Royal Carib it's called Serenity, unless Serenity is the one on Celebrity. I may not remember which is which because I've been on four different cruise lines, but it is a typical offering, and they have day camp type places with counselors to watch the children. There are also teen clubs. When I first began cruising in the 1970s, I don't remember them having an adults only area, but now it's come to be an expected amenity.

Chloe was too young and not toilet-trained, so she would not have been allowed in the children's facility on the ship. There were supposed to be some parent-tot sessions during the cruise, but we'll never know whether or not Chloe's parents would have participated with her. Babysitting services on a ship have a fee and are usually random crew members who are off duty and want to earn some extra $. I would never have left a child with a total stranger, and again, we don't know if Chloe's parents planned to engage a babysitter during their cruise.

DH and I usually cruise with Princess. The "adults only" venue is called The Sanctuary.

 

[Arkay]

View attachment 221934 View attachment 221933 View attachment 221932 View attachment 221931
These windows are similar in style (my ship was not Freedom) you can tell they are open - I think most of us agree on- what you can’t see in a picture is how the wind absolutely blows through those windows even while docked at the pier - no doubt ( unless you have no feeling in your upper body ) you would mistake that for what it is - a breeze . The last two are the pictures from that open window looking down at the concrete peer - that’s the view he saw - a bustle of activity with passenger loading on the gangway -forklifts loading up endless food on pallets—and people that look like ants from this vantage point - as I mentioned Friday we’ve all posted varying theories and our thoughts on what happened that afternoon but until you’ve stood 11 decks up and looked out the window to the concrete peer below you really can’t imagine how stunningly awful this was IMO. Knowing he placed that baby over the rail and out the window (with his bulk not an easy task- my arm would go outside the window only if I pressed against the handrail which stopped me) and dropped her it’s almost impossible to understand- and JMO there needs to be consequences to these actions (and not a plea jail with no time) but I respect PR and if it was truly offered - it’s an olive branch to spare the family. There are cameras everywhere and I’ve no doubt they have many different views - and FWIW I saw at least a dozen toddlers her age and not a single one was held anywhere near the open windows in all my time spent on deck 11. And the ship docked next to us in -RCCL- Coco Cay also had the same windows open and both ships had the smoking side facing the pier - just FYI

I live on the 11th floor of an apartment building in NYC. We have a terrace. My daughter is 38 now, but when she was little that terrace door was bolted, and whenever I took her out there myself, I placed her on her little chair and stood over her. I would NEVER let her near the railing. Same for my three grandchildren.
I remember the first time I took my eldest granddaughter on the Staten Island Ferry, when she was four. I wanted her to see the Statue of Liberty, which the ferry passes in front of, and I had both my arms wrapped around her, my legs around her ankles, and she was standing on the floor with me wrapped this way. Just in case.

 

[mickey2942]

Chloe was too young and not toilet-trained, so she would not have been allowed in the children's facility on the ship. There were supposed to be some parent-tot sessions during the cruise, but we'll never know whether or not Chloe's parents would have participated with her. Babysitting services on a ship have a fee and are usually random crew members who are off duty and want to earn some extra $. I would never have left a child with a total stranger, and again, we don't know if Chloe's parents planned to engage a babysitter during their cruise.

DH and I usually cruise with Princess. The "adults only" venue is called The Sanctuary.

The great irony here, is that Chloe probably would have been safer with a complete stranger, hanging with a kid for extra cash, than SA.

 

[IceIce9]

The great irony here, is that Chloe probably would have been safer with a complete stranger, hanging with a kid for extra cash, than SA.

Can you imagine the public outcry and condemnation if it had been a crew member who had been looking after Chloe?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The great irony here, is that Chloe probably would have been safer with a complete stranger, hanging with a kid for extra cash, than SA.

You're probably right. Sad

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oh no, they won’t even watch the video. But they *know* SA would never do anything to harm their child. /s

I don't understand the parents' continued support of the man who dropped their child overboard on a cruise ship. Why are they so insistent on protecting the man who recklessly placed their daughter in an open window 11 stories above the cruise ship dock? As Mammy says in GWTW, "It ain't fittin'. It just ain't fittin'."

 

[Abb914]

Wonder if this account on Etsy is the mother’s. Seems to have some age as the 1st liked product shop is no longer open and seems to have closed in 2018. Meaning if someone created it recently they would of not been able to like that product as it wouldn’t of been available anymore. Also theres a crocheted police mans hat liked. However the reason I bring it up is because most recent likes consist of onesies that say “handpicked by my sister in heaven” and also a “big brother” shirt. Makes me wonder if they could possibly be expecting new baby.

 

[sl222]

I wonder if there is a camera to his left from the bar side. I hope so because that would be the closest view. They have always said "multiple angles." We still don't know what if any other videos exist.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I wonder if there is a camera to his left from the bar side. I hope so because that would be the closest view. They have always said "multiple angles." We still don't know what if any other videos exist.

We have yet to see any video from outside the ship, i.e. surveillance cameras on exterior of ship and on the dock. There are probably surveillance cameras on buildings in the vicinity of the port, as well. I think there will be video that shows Grandpa leaning out the window before he placed Chloe in the open window frame. External video might be more damning than what we've seen from inside the vessel.

 

[IceIce9]

I don't understand the parents' continued support of the man who dropped their child overboard on a cruise ship. Why are they so insistent on protecting the man who recklessly placed their daughter in an open window 11 stories above the cruise ship dock? As Mammy says in GWTW, "It ain't fittin'. It just ain't fittin'."

I love your quote from my all-time favorite book. So true.