IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[MichelleBlue]

Omg. I watched both videos. IMO, ugh. I am wondering if he was tired of running around after her & just lost it for a moment. He obviously, he knew that was an open window!

Him crouching down with her by the column beforehand is a little odd. What did he say to her then? Because right after that, she ran towards the windows.

Other than that, I have to say I thought the video would be higher quality. I think the poor quality leaves room for debate, unfortunately.

 

[neesaki]

Omg. I watched both videos. IMO, ugh. I am wondering if he was tired of running around after her & just lost it for a moment. He obviously, he knew that was an open window!

Him crouching down with her by the column beforehand is a little odd. What did he say to her then? Because right after that, she ran towards the windows.

Other than that, I have to say I thought the video would be higher quality. I think the poor quality leaves room for debate, unfortunately.

Maybe lured her over there by saying something like, “ look at all the glass, you want to go bang on it?

So strange, after all their “bang on the glass “ claims, he instead picks her up and puts her out a very obviously open window.

 

[al66pine]

Risk/Reward: A Split Second Calculation.

No... but I surely don't believe he was trying in any way to harm his grandchild.

@dgfred Just jumping off your post. Not saying G'pa intended to harm Chloe. But imo he did intend to hold Chloe outside the window. Here's one way of looking at that action.
What is the possible risk?
If a 100+ ft drop onto concrete or water is a (virtually) non-survivable event, death is the risk G'pa is subjecting her to. Or for optimists, maybe risk was seen as 'just' life-threatening injuries/ life-long impairments, like traumatic brain injury or quadriplegia. For ppl w the rosiest colored glasses: maybe only some broken bones (hips, legs, knees, feet. arms, hands) and/or lacerated kidneys, spleen, etc.
What is the possible reward?
For G'pa, maybe (expecting to) hear her giggle?
For Chloe, maybe upsy-dupsy feeling of being lifted up and/or maybe see more of dock, close in to ship, than she sees by herself, standing by window.?

^ ^ ^ Pretty big risk for puny potential rewards.^ ^ ^
On reading first article about this in early July, that's what I thought - in a split second. Since then, I've been open to/looking for other factors but still looks the same to me.

G'pa was grossly negligent, reckless in his disregard for her safety. The risk was death, and it happened.

 

[MsMarple]

but they are backing him - from the Indystar article i posted upthread - IMO this looks like they are backing him
Chloe Wiegand death: Video viewed by IndyStar shows final moments before cruise shipOutline - Read & annotate without distractions fall
In response to the leaked video, the family released the following statement through Winkleman. The family said that they had not wanted the video released to protect their older child.

"The family publicly asks the Puerto Rican authorities, why was this footage released?" the Wiegand family said in a statement released through Winkleman. "Why do you continue to inflict such heinous emotional distress on our family? Haven't we been punished enough by the loss of Chloe?"

The family requested an independent investigation into the leak.

Sorry but every time I read those last sentences I can't help but think of the internet meme "Why do you hate me?" I'm not convinced it was the Puerto Rican authorities who released the video to La Comay but if it turns out that they did then I'd question their motive. IOW, what would they gain from it?

For that matter, other than someone independently releasing the video for money, who benefits most? Both Winkleman and SA's defense attorney keep saying it "proves" that SA thought the window was closed but I'm not buying it at all. It's the lawyers and the family who insist SA said he thought there was glass but I remember an article early on had him first saying something like "I dropped my child" or something similar.

So who, apart from the PR prosecutor had hard copies of those videos?

 

[sl222]

fwiw, there is a man looking out of the window first, while SA is crouched talking to Chloe at the pillar. That man leaves the window and walks right in front of SA and Chloe. Then she goes to the window followed by SA. I am not saying it means anything at all, but it's on the video.

I changed the quality of the video on my settings and it was improved, but you can see her hands, his hands and arms, her body being lifted both the first time and then out of the window. You can see a lot; the 2 different angles helps. But yes, what we see is grainy and that will be part of what his attorney says in his defense too. Of course.

 

[oviedo]

fwiw, there is a man looking out of the window first, while SA is crouched talking to Chloe at the pillar. That man leaves the window and walks right in front of SA and Chloe. Then she goes to the window followed by SA. I am not saying it means anything at all, but it's on the video.

I changed the quality of the video on my settings and it was improved, but you can see her hands, his hands and arms, her body being lifted both the first time and then out of the window. You can see a lot; the 2 different angles helps. But yes, what we see is grainy and that will be part of what his attorney says in his defense too. Of course.

IMO it’s a poor quality copy I’ve seen video from RCCL ships (privately) and their cameras are top of the line - I’m almost thinking someone played the real video and this was copied using a cell phone pointed at the screen
My prediction is there will be many many videos from different angles played in court that are crystal clear
JMO

 

[Chikkamma]

Yes, please do!

Can someone please translate what is said during the important parts of the video?

Ok, I'll start to translate the most important parts and post them one at a time (in between cooking lol)...

Before they show the video, the host of the show (dressed as a puppet-like woman) says the following:

"At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts, none of them, none of them had ANYTHING to do with (the leaking of) this video. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos... probably ones that are a lot better quality."

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=754098988428111

MODS or anyone else- please let me know if I should take the video link off and I will do so immediately. I am still learning the rules.

Will keep posting translations of the most important parts in between enchilada prep

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Ok, I'll start to translate the most important parts and post them one at a time (in between cooking lol)...

Before the they show the video, the host of the show (dressed as a puppet-like woman) says the following:

"At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts had ANYTHING to do with (the leaking of) this video. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos... probably ones that are a lot better quality."

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=754098988428111

Will keep posting translations of the most important parts in between enchilada prep

Mil gracias!!!

 

[oviedo]

Ok, I'll start to translate the most important parts and post them one at a time (in between cooking lol)...

Before they show the video, the host of the show (dressed as a puppet-like woman) says the following:

"At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts had ANYTHING to do with (the leaking of) this video. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos... probably ones that are a lot better quality."

I have the link to this TV show (La Comay) but am not sure if I am allowed to post it.

Will keep posting translations of the most important parts in between enchilada prep

Thanks so much this should be interesting - don’t let your dinner burn

 

[MsMarple]

Including multiple eyewitnesses.

Yeah, and what's up with that? Remember, Winkleman claimed there were no eyewitnesses, prosecution claims to have witnesses both inside and out and the video clearly shows people nearby. In fact, if I saw correctly, there was someone right next to SA at the moment Chloe fell.

 

[LietKynes]

Yeah, and what's up with that? Remember, Winkleman claimed there were no eyewitnesses, prosecution claims to have witnesses both inside and out and the video clearly shows people nearby. In fact, if I saw correctly, there was someone right next to SA at the moment Chloe fell.

It was fairly crowded there at the time of Chloe's death.
Even by the windows.
Someone may have seen exactly what happened.
Where is Mssr. Winkleman getting his 'facts' ?

 

[max99]

Ok, I'll start to translate the most important parts and post them one at a time (in between cooking lol)...

Before they show the video, the host of the show (dressed as a puppet-like woman) says the following:

"At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts had ANYTHING to do with (the leaking of) this video. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos... probably ones that are a lot better quality."

I have the link to this TV show (La Comay) but am not sure if I am allowed to post it.

Will keep posting translations of the most important parts in between enchilada prep

BBM

what's up with that?

 

[MsMarple]

RSBM

I wonder what any former deputy prosecutor would have said, if this incident had happened to someone else's family, someone else's child, someone else's stepfather. Would they have gone all out for the innocent child? The innocent child who has been negligently lost? Would they have balked at the blame cast toward the cruiseliner, been surprised at the lawsuit attempt?

I have a feeling that a police officer is having very mixed emotions.

I have yet to hear from the parents that they would have done exactly the same thing with Chloe if they were in SA's shoes so I suspect there's a lot of emotion brewing that we aren't hearing about. MOO.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

It was fairly crowded there at the time of Chloe's death.
Even by the windows.
Someone may have seen exactly what happened.
Where is Mssr. Winkleman getting his 'facts' ?

He's pulling them out of his----hat.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Omg. I watched both videos. IMO, ugh. I am wondering if he was tired of running around after her & just lost it for a moment. He obviously, he knew that was an open window!

Him crouching down with her by the column beforehand is a little odd. What did he say to her then? Because right after that, she ran towards the windows.

Other than that, I have to say I thought the video would be higher quality. I think the poor quality leaves room for debate, unfortunately.

IIRC SA only had charge of Chloe for about 10 minutes before she died.

 

[al66pine]

Color Blindness & Drivers' Licenses, Revisited.
Seems irrelevant now, but in the interest of responding to an unanswered post from last thread-
"Does it say on SA's driver's license that he's CB? If not, maybe it should. JMOO"
(Sorry, forgot who posted ^. Had copied quote to my Word program, pasting it here)
Maybe something more relevant like "Not a lick of common sense."/sarc

Seriously, whether Gp'a's DL- assuming he has one - is from IN or MI, I see nothing from either of those two states re vision testing applicants for CB/colorvision.
MI: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vision_Standards_19484_7.pdf
IN: BMV: Vision Screening

If SA has a form of colorblindness, I don't see that it would have prevented him from getting DL in either state, at least not in recent years (if ever). jmo.

 

[MsMarple]

I missed this:
David Begnaud on Twitter

David Begnaud‏Verified account @DavidBegnaud
BREAKING: Puerto Rico's Attorney General says she's "unaware" of how a local TV show got video showing a toddlers final moments before falling from her grandfather hands abroad a cruise ship. AG says the video "confirms" Sam Anello is "guilty of negligent homicide as charged"

David Begnaud on Twitter

David Begnaud‏Verified account
Full statement: "Official Statement from Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones We are unaware of how Kobbo Santarrosa obtained the video of the unfortunate incident where Chloe Wiegand lost her life.

David Begnaud‏Verified account @DavidBegnaud 4h4 hours ago
A careful review of said video confirms, however that Salvatore Anello is guilty of negligent homicide as charged. The evidence collected in this case corroborates his criminal responsibility. We hope and expect Chloe’s family fully cooperates...
with our proceedings and that justice prevails in this case with conviction.”

*Kobbo Santarrosa is the puppeteer on La Comay

 

[mickey2942]

Color Blindness & Drivers' Licenses, Revisited.
Seems irrelevant now, but in the interest of responding to an unanswered post from last thread-
"Does it say on SA's driver's license that he's CB? If not, maybe it should. JMOO"
(Sorry, forgot who posted ^. Had copied quote to my Word program, pasting it here)
Maybe something more relevant like "Not a lick of common sense."/sarc

Seriously, whether Gp'a's DL- assuming he has one - is from IN or MI, I see nothing from either of those two states re vision testing applicants for CB/colorvision.
MI: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vision_Standards_19484_7.pdf
IN: BMV: Vision Screening

If SA has a form of colorblindness, I don't see that it would have prevented him from getting DL in either state, at least not in recent years (if ever). jmo.

Colorblindness does not impact a regular DL, in almost any state. For a CDL endorsement, I think that it is medical waiver that needs to be signed off by ophthalmologist or optometrist.

There are a lot of men who have achromatopsia, and never even knew that they were color blind! It is pretty common.

 

[Chikkamma]

-13:10 - "The skinny red arrow is the girl, and the big red arrow is the grandfather..."

-12:56 - "Look... there's the girl and there's the grandfather. Grandpa gets down and squats. Different people pass by... When this woman passes [the large woman in the short floral dress], the girl leaves and the grandpa follows behind her... Look at where the grandfather goes [to the window]... Ladies and gentleman, look closely at the arrow... You'll only see one person approaching the window, and look at what he does as soon as he gets there... I originally thought that the grandfather was holding the girl in his arms the whole time, but no, but the girl left and went to the bottom window which is completely sealed tight... And when the grandfather arrives, what does he do, he LEANS OVER... he's looking DOWN ladies and gentleman..."

The parts in [...] are my clarifications.

 

[neesaki]

Omg. I watched both videos. IMO, ugh. I am wondering if he was tired of running around after her & just lost it for a moment. He obviously, he knew that was an open window!

Him crouching down with her by the column beforehand is a little odd. What did he say to her then? Because right after that, she ran towards the windows.

Other than that, I have to say I thought the video would be higher quality. I think the poor quality leaves room for debate, unfortunately.

I think they may have ways of enhancing videos. I do know the HD version is a little more clear. I’m far, far from anything close to an expert, so maybe one can weigh in?
The HD is available if you download from FB, which is my very first experience with that, and the limits of my knowledge.