IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[BrownRice]

This is not a poor family. They live in Granger, Indiana, which is the wealthiest city in the area. Take a look at the comparison between South Bend and Granger median income.

I’ve worked quite a few times with the South Bend Fire firefighters, and they make jokes about Granger. “Firefighters are getting a raise, we’re all moving to Granger, lol.

So I used to be local in Granger for about 8 yrs. just moved out of state (thank God ). Needed my sunshine.

Anyways Granger does have a reputation like that, BUT it is not exactly accurate. There are many normal (middle class) subdivisions there. Everybody assumes all of Granger is the Covington Shores area (upper class). I am very well connected to somebody in their neighborhood. It is an older middle class subdivision. Not wealthy at all.

 

[vallie]

Exactly, Safeguard., that video doesn't belong to them, it doesn't show her death,They no longer can control the narrative, the video speaks for itself. This video would never have been bought by a tv show if there was no public interest stirred up by nobody but themselves with the lies, slanderous claims and blaming while they make their circuit on tv and press conferences.

 

[Montrealaise]

SA gave everyone watching that interview he did the finger. What a complete load of CRUD.
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he’s colorblind, calls court case "inconsequential"

I know, Thinking about the interview now "I'm colorblind, I'm told that's why I didn't see there was glass there" when he knew very well what he did, just makes me wonder how he has the nerve. Did he (and the family) think the video would never be released?

 

[Montrealaise]

SA gave everyone watching that interview he did the finger. What a complete load of CRUD.
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he’s colorblind, calls court case "inconsequential"

I know, Thinking about the interview now "Sob, sob, I'm colorblind, I'm told that's why I didn't see there was glass there, sob, please feel sorry for me" when he knew very well what he did, just makes me wonder how he has the nerve. Did he (and the family) think the video would never be released?

 

[SuzDuJour]

Good question, why not a grandmother. Whatcha wanna bet he volunteered.

I’m sorry to say I’ve wondered this, too. He called her his best friend and sought out time to be with her, yet when I saw him wandering around the ship with her, I didn’t feel any sense of real closeness between them. I’ll probably be banned for saying this, but I’ve wondered about how verbal she was becoming...

 

[mickey2942]

One thing that really bugs me about this lawsuit claim (besides him citing an industry standard from the wrong industry etc etc etc) is the suit is mostly about compensating the parents for what Chloe would have earned if she had grown up and got a job/had a career.

Seems to me that Chloe would have used any earnings for living expenses for herself - to rent an apartment, buy a house, buy a car, raise children. Or she might never have worked and earned no money at all. And she would have likely outlived her parents - so, no inheritance to them.

Also seems to me that they now won't be paying for Chloe's education, clothing, food, expenses - things that may have entitled them to any inheritance.

I do get that it will be based on what a 'reasonable person' could expect, but how is it that her parents are now entitled to that? (rhetorical question, crazy laws)

And they want reimbursement for all of their expenses, even though I can see three different crowd sourcing projects that have raised $22,040 and $6,055 and $6,100 supposedly for those expenses.

The lawsuit in the death of a child pays for "Pain and Suffering" of losing a child, and trauma for seeing your child dead.

While there was no lawsuit against Disney for the death of Lane Graves, two year old who was killed in an alligator attack on Disney property, estimates are that his family was paid in the range of $10 million.

 

[Montrealaise]

One thing that really bugs me about this lawsuit claim (besides him citing an industry standard from the wrong industry etc etc etc) is the suit is mostly about compensating the parents for what Chloe would have earned if she had grown up and got a job/had a career.

Seems to me that Chloe would have used any earnings for living expenses for herself - to rent an apartment, buy a house, buy a car, raise children. Or she might never have worked and earned no money at all. And she would have likely outlived her parents - so, no inheritance to them.

Also seems to me that they now won't be paying for Chloe's education, clothing, food, expenses - things that may have entitled them to any inheritance.

I do get that it will be based on what a 'reasonable person' could expect, but how is it that her parents are now entitled to that? (rhetorical question, crazy laws)

And they want reimbursement for all of their expenses, even though I can see three different crowd sourcing projects that have raised $22,040 and $6,055 and $6,100 supposedly for those expenses.

And didn't RCCL pay for some expenses - hotel, airline tickets and so on? They're not just double-dipping, they're triple-dipping!

 

[Only4Justice]

If you watch this video (the one from behind) you will see more of Chloe. There is some action on the guardrail for a few seconds. You can make out her white hat.

Scroll forward to start at about the 9 min mark through till about 7:50 min. (it is a video count back counter not a count forward counter)

The side-on video seems to have been sped up so that Chloe is not seen very much.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=754098988428111

WOW just WOW. It looks like her pushed her. Or can I not say that is my opinion? I couldn’t even watch the whole thing. Horrifying. IMO

Sorry, it's my second day on Websleuths and I accidentally posted the quote before I replied. Still learning!
I'm replying to whether or not Chloe asked to be picked up,
Unless a passenger or crew member overheard this and comes forward, we won't know since there's no sound. However, if there is another visual showing her raising her arms to the grandfather, or even if he says he heard her say something like "up up up," he should have responded in the responsible way. Hold her on your hip, both arms embracing her, walk to a foot away from the window, continue holding her and let her peek through the window at a safe distance, then take her elsewhere and go on to the next thing.. Tragedy averted.

Welcome to WS @Arkay

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I’m sorry to say I’ve wondered this, too. He called her his best friend and sought out time to be with her, yet when I saw him wandering around the ship with her, I didn’t feel any sense of real closeness between them. I’ll probably be banned for saying this, but I’ve wondered about how verbal she was becoming...

I wondered the same thing.

 

[neesaki]

I know, Thinking about the interview now "Sob, sob, I'm colorblind, I'm told that's why I didn't see there was glass there, sob, please feel sorry for me" when he knew very well what he did, just makes me wonder how he has the nerve. Did he (and the family) think the video would never be released?

It was disgusting, especially after all of his fake sobbing, when he opens his eyes, then looks up to see if everyone took notice and if it worked. Reminded me of when Patsy Ramsey had her hands over her face and peeked through her fingers, as in, “are we getting away with this”? SMH

 

[neesaki]

I’m sorry to say I’ve wondered this, too. He called her his best friend and sought out time to be with her, yet when I saw him wandering around the ship with her, I didn’t feel any sense of real closeness between them. I’ll probably be banned for saying this, but I’ve wondered about how verbal she was becoming...

You’re not alone, I’ve been wondering the same thing. But you’re right, we can’t go there.

 

[BeachSky]

I know, Thinking about the interview now "I'm colorblind, I'm told that's why I didn't see there was glass there" when he knew very well what he did, just makes me wonder how he has the nerve. Did he (and the family) think the video would never be released?

My uncle is a Full Bird Colonel in the military. He served multiple tours in Nam, finished out his career working at the Pentagon.
He’s colorblind!
You can join the military even if you are colorblind! you can become a pilot even if you are color blind . I think the only thing you cannot be in the military is a Navy Seal & that has to do with flashing signals.


S.A. needs to tell the truth.
MOO

 

[Safeguard]

I was just thinking about this a bit more - I wonder if he sobbed something like 'I didn't have my glasses on' ... or 'where are my glasses' ... or 'I need my glasses' ... or 'I dropped my glasses'.
I notice he wears glasses.

As you say, nothing about a 'window', which would seem more usual. Just about glass(es?).

Right. Yes, first reports, all he said is "I dropped my baby!" Nothing about thinking there was glass there. That only appears after the lawyer took control of his statements, if that was what really happened you would think he would have been repeating that over and over when first questioned, but nope, all he said is he dropped her.

It's also really, really telling that the paternal set of grandparents, who were also aboard the ship, don't seem to be buying his story either. Stone cold silence from them. Not a single statement. Speaks volumes imo

 

[Safeguard]

USA Today is reporting that they viewed the video footage. They seem to be somewhat slanting the obvious fact that Chloe was held beyond the safety railing. Cruise ship death: Video shows minutes before Chloe Wiegand fatal fall

"Anello appears to lean over an interior railing in front of the windows.
Anello lifts Chloe onto the railing. In an instant, she's gone."

She was also not "Gone in an instant. She was out there for 30 seconds. That's about 30 seconds too long not to realize this wasn't a good idea.

Meanwhile back in the land of reason and rhyme:

"The Government continues to resolutely prosecute this case and remains confident that the defendant will be convicted as charged.”

"Police in Puerto Rico initially said Anello told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside the window on the 11th deck, the Associated Press reported"

And SA said that because that's what happened. As we all just plainly saw.

 

[vallie]

Sam "I thought there was glass" Anello's body language on that video shows to me that he is tired, .pissed, even. they flew in that morning, drinks on the flight? tranquilizers for acrophobia? I think he isn't tending to Chloe properly (duh,ultimately, )def. NOT acting like he having fun-- on the first hours on the cruise. hmmm. is he buzzed from the flight? had to wake up from a nap? wife unpacking so she tells Sam to go? taking it out on Chloe. Ugh .

moo

 

[Safeguard]

Sam "I thought there was glass" Anello's body language on that video shows to me that he is tired, .pissed, even. they flew in that morning, drinks on the flight? tranquilizers for acrophobia? I think he isn't tending to Chloe properly (duh,ultimately, )def. NOT acting like he having fun-- on the first hours on the cruise. hmmm. is he buzzed from the flight? had to wake up from a nap? wife unpacking so she tells Sam to go? taking it out on Chloe. Ugh .

moo

I didn't see any indication of anger. To me it looks like he's just following Chloe around leisurely.
I see no sign that he was snapping at her, pulling her by the hand ect... He does look a bit tired, but he appears to be chatting with her normally imo.

I have wondered if he took any sedative or something for anxiety just because of his obvious lack of alarm about putting Chloe out that window. My palms were sweating just thinking about it. I don't know how that didn't make him anxious!

I really honestly don't get the sense that he did this on purpose, or that he was taking any anger out on Chloe.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Sam "I thought there was glass" Anello's body language on that video shows to me that he is tired, .pissed, even. they flew in that morning, drinks on the flight? tranquilizers for acrophobia? I think he isn't tending to Chloe properly (duh,ultimately, )def. NOT acting like he having fun-- on the first hours on the cruise. hmmm. is he buzzed from the flight? had to wake up from a nap? wife unpacking so she tells Sam to go? taking it out on Chloe. Ugh .

moo

Do you have a source for this? I thought they had flown to San Juan the day before and spent a night in a hotel.

 

[BeachSky]

Sam "I thought there was glass" Anello's body language on that video shows to me that he is tired, .pissed, even. they flew in that morning, drinks on the flight? tranquilizers for acrophobia? I think he isn't tending to Chloe properly (duh,ultimately, )def. NOT acting like he having fun-- on the first hours on the cruise. hmmm. is he buzzed from the flight? had to wake up from a nap? wife unpacking so she tells Sam to go? taking it out on Chloe. Ugh .

moo

And showing off possibly...lots of ladies around the bar area.
Coupled with the fact that rules don’t apply to him ( seat belt tickets).

JMO

 

[Kindred]

View attachment 221648 Cruiseline, Name SA as 3rd Party Defendant?
@Kindred sbm
From civil procedure standpoint, now that parents' wrongful death claim has been filed against cruiseline, could cruiseline name G'pa SA as a third party defendant in impleader action?* Then the interests of the parents and the interests of SA would be directly adverse to one another.
What would downside for cruiseline be, in moving to implead SA as 3rd party defendant?

And is there is the possibility of joint and several liability among tortfeasors** in civil suit, i.e., meaning that court could hold that both cruiseline and G'pa SA both contributed to her death. Doubtful that's an outcome parents would want. Of course, cruiseline, not G'father, has the deep pockets to pay award.

snipped for brevity (also apologies for taking so long to get back about this but I'm chasing 3 year old triplets this weekend and computers are a big no no lol)

To be honest, I'm not sure. I'd have to try and look back at past cases to see if they or any other cruise line has ever tried to use that strategy in any of their cases. I would suspect their first course would be to push for dismissal because of Winkleman trying to use the wrong standards in addition to SA being the one who put her out the window in an unforeseeable act. We'll have to wait and see how this progresses

 

[Chikkamma]

What's the bet that whatever he said could be remotely taken as "I thought there was glass there" (if holding your head in a bucket of water, and having a mouthful of marbles, while screaming it).

It will be interesting to learn what the witnesses say he said.

I think it’s possible SA did say “I thought there was glass!” immediately after the incident. He had to give some immediate explanation to KW as to why he dropped her baby off the ship.

KW has said in her [many] media interviews that SA kept repeating “I thought there was glass!”after the incident. It is possible KW is lying. It also possible that SA came up with this lie on the spot and locked himself into it, with the parents misguidedly believing him thereafter.

Good liars can conjure up lies in an instant. If it turns out he did say it and this case goes to trial, it will hopefully not affect the outcome