IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[Safeguard]

I think it’s possible SA did say “I thought there was glass!” immediately after the incident. He had to give some immediate explanation to KW as to why he dropped her baby off the ship. “I thought there was glass!” was probably the best he could come up with.

KW was said in her many media interviews that SA kept repeating the phrase after the incident. It is possible KW is lying. But it also possible that SA came up with this lie on the spot and locked himself into it, with the parents misguidedly believing him thereafter.

Good liars can conjure up lies in an instant. Whether he said it or not should hopefully not affect the case.

I tend to doubt it because the PR authorities all initially said he told them he had her outside the window. I think he probably did say it repeatedly to the fam later on, but I think he got that "thought" from the lawyer.

 

[Safeguard]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Chloe's parents are just engaging in misguided 'busy work' to postpone dealing with the awful reality that their lives have changed forever. It must be dreadfully quiet in their house now. They may be running from beginning the hard grieving process. I blame the lawyer for exploiting their pain more than anyone else.

SA said in his interview, when asked what keeps him going, "this process" meaning the legal stuff. And he said after which he is going to need some...help.
( This small part of the interview is markedly different from when he is lying imo It *feels* like the truth. That old court room saying, "The truth makes a sound like the ring of a bell").

I can believe that of the parents as well. They were not able to do anything for their baby after she fell and got hurt. As parents that instinctive need to help your child is SO powerful.
I can imagine some transference here. All *this* is better than the awful helplessness which is probably intolerably painful. Excruciating I bet.

They may very well feel compelled. They simply must do something to help someone since they cannot help their baby girl ever again. This way they can at least feel like they are fighting for her. (while also avoiding beginning to live their new quieter, sadder life and really moving on from being able to parent her).

A sudden unexpected and shocking event such as this was, can drive people to do the most inexplicably self destructive things. Perhaps this is all that is keeping them from total despair. They could be hanging on to sanity by only the thinnest of threads. I would be.

 

[al66pine]

Cruise Liner Injuries.

....There was a helecopter evacuation on my cruise and I couldn’t get any information about what happened, I was told that information was confidential so if a child should crawl through these railings no one would know about it except the witnesses....

@they'll get you sbm bbm Yep, ^ not surprising that cruise lines try their best to keep these events quiet, and some/many passengers would not be aware. A few yrs ago we were in a city where cruise ship w ~3000+ passenger capacity was docked for a day for a shore excursion. The previous day there had been a domestic dispute on board and man killed his wife, which made news in port of call. In talking w some passengers on the shore excursion, we earned that they had not heard a thing about it.
If/when G'pa goes to trial, I wonder if any passengers in Squeeze bar area are called as witnesses. Even w a handful of ppl close-by in moments leading up to the death, possible that none had observed anything relevant or material. Footage from surv cam's may show us more than eye witnesses can relate. Some vids we've already seen, plus more footage. jmo.

 

[neesaki]

Seeing how it looks in that pic, he could’ve lifted her over the top of the window. And would still say it was the boat’s fault.

If this tragedy hadn’t happened when it did, I have to wonder if he would have dangled her over the side of the boat or balcony railing after they got out in the open water. It’s totally unfathomable what he did, and they hadn’t even left port!

 

[neesaki]

I was just thinking about this a bit more - I wonder if he sobbed something like 'I didn't have my glasses on' ... or 'where are my glasses' ... or 'I need my glasses' ... or 'I dropped my glasses'.
I notice he wears glasses.

As you say, nothing about a 'window', which would seem more usual. Just about glass(es?).

Maybe, but that would be a lie too considering he practically bent in half and had his whole head and the upper part of his body out the window. SMH

 

[iluvmua]

I just watched the video.

He follows Chloe to the window, sticks his head out the window and then picks her up and puts her on the railing and after a few seconds go by, he drops her and then you see him crumble to the ground.

 

[sl222]

I think it’s possible SA did say “I thought there was glass!” immediately after the incident. He had to give some immediate explanation to KW as to why he dropped her baby off the ship.

KW has said in her [many] media interviews that SA kept repeating “I thought there was glass!”after the incident. It is possible KW is lying. It also possible that SA came up with this lie on the spot and locked himself into it, with the parents misguidedly believing him thereafter.

Good liars can conjure up lies in an instant. If it turns out he did say it and this case goes to trial, it will hopefully not affect the outcome

In that first tv interview, KW stated that this is what he told them and she gave me the strong impression that they were trusting him that he was telling the truth about thinking that was glass, and based on that, they were supporting him.

At this point they have probably seen this video - especially since it became public - and certainly some extended family members must have now seen it at least - but it does take a few viewings to really examine what it shows, and just the act of seeing it would be stressful enough to cause them to need medical help of some kind, but I do think that IF they have seen the video, they have more doubts, questions, anger than ever, privately. They may still not be ready to see it themselves. They could be reading accounts of what people are saying it shows though. We don't know, but I wish them some peace this week especially.

 

[al66pine]

Reporters Viewing the Videos w Winkleman. Bamboozled?
Agreeing w post 707 by sl222 - that it takes multiple viewings to comprehend them. Esp the low-res/blurry/grainy/jerky vids vids seen in first airings on PR MegaTV several days ago.

The same thing likely occurred last week when CBS David Begnaud (sp?) was shown vids by atty Winkleman in W's ofc, presumably on rather small screen. And without MegaTV-added red arrows tracking G'pa's & Chloe's movements, and without the white halo highlighting.
If W only allowed reporter one or two views of short sections of vids, and also "guided" w his own narration, I can understand reporter feeling W tried to/did bamboozle him.
Would Begnaud & others have covered the story the same way, if they had been provided copies, and permitted to view and analyze them? jmo

Even Dec 20, Indy Star/USA Today* reported it did not have vids from W, had only been permitted to view.
---------------------------------------------------------------
*Editor's note: The Wiegand family's attorney allowed a reporter and senior editor for the IndyStar, which is part of the USA TODAY Network, to review the Royal Caribbean surveillance footage that shows toddler Chloe Wiegand's fall. IndyStar and USA TODAY have not obtained a copy of the video, nor is it being published on our platforms. Dec 20

 

[mickey2942]

In that first tv interview, KW stated that this is what he told them and she gave me the strong impression that they were trusting him that he was telling the truth about thinking that was glass, and based on that, they were supporting him.

At this point they have probably seen this video - especially since it became public - and certainly some extended family members must have now seen it at least - but it does take a few viewings to really examine what it shows, and just the act of seeing it would be stressful enough to cause them to need medical help of some kind, but I do think that IF they have seen the video, they have more doubts, questions, anger than ever, privately. They may still not be ready to see it themselves. They could be reading accounts of what people are saying it shows though. We don't know, but I wish them some peace this week especially.

Should be quite the holiday. Wonder whose house they are going to for Christmas dinner?

 

[SouthAussie]

The lawsuit in the death of a child pays for "Pain and Suffering" of losing a child, and trauma for seeing your child dead.

While there was no lawsuit against Disney for the death of Lane Graves, two year old who was killed in an alligator attack on Disney property, estimates are that his family was paid in the range of $10 million.

If you read the details of their claim for monetary compensation, their pain and suffering is a small part of their claim.
More of it is about Chloe's pain, suffering and loss of earnings.
I have no doubt that Winkleman knows what he is doing, cruise ship lawsuits are his profession.

Section 'a' is about Chloe's pain and suffering
Section 'b' is about Chloe's loss of earnings
Section 'c' is about their expenses and their loss of Chloe (which includes a part about their own pain and suffering)


44. As a direct and proximate result of Defendant’s negligence,

a. Decedent was injured about her body and extremities, suffered physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and died;
b. Decedent’s estate lost earnings of the Decedent and lost the benefit of the prospective net accumulations, which might reasonably have been expected but for the Decedent’s death.
c. The beneficiaries/survivors of the Decedent incurred funeral expenses, suffered loss of financial support, loss of services, lost past and future wages, future loss of support and services, loss of inheritance, sustained mental pain and suffering and loss of the Decedent’s companionship and protection, and suffered moral damages

 

[Safeguard]

Should be quite the holiday. Wonder whose house they are going to for Christmas dinner?

It never occurred to me to wonder that.

I doubt they'll be very hungry.

I hope they go wherever brings them any small measure of comfort.

(Were it me, Id go to church. I'm a 'Recovering Catholic' but I still find comfort in the sanctuary of the church).

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Chloe's parents are just engaging in misguided 'busy work' to postpone dealing with the awful reality that their lives have changed forever. It must be dreadfully quiet in their house now. They may be running from beginning the hard grieving process. I blame the lawyer for exploiting their pain more than anyone else...

...A sudden unexpected and shocking event such as this was, can drive people to do the most inexplicably self destructive things. Perhaps this is all that is keeping them from total despair. They could be hanging on to sanity by only the thinnest of threads. I would be.

<respectfully snipped> Thank you for this very thoughtful post. So much of what you say rings true. I also hope that, if they haven't already seen it, Chloe's parents will watch the video. They don't have to see the aftermath, but I think they will have an easier time getting over their denial when they know how Chloe lost her life. I really don't think they will ever be able to move forward until they face the reality of their little girl's tragic death.

Some years ago, I attended a funeral Mass and volunteered at a luncheon that followed in the church hall. A four-year-old boy had died of cancer (brain tumor), and the parish had been praying for him for several months during treatment. I didn't know the family but was asked to help out with the luncheon. The boy's mother approached me to introduce herself and thank me for my service that day. Besides introducing myself and expressing sympathy for the loss of her child, I really didn't know what else I should say. The mother talked to me about her little boy's illness and how difficult it had been on her and his father, and their two other children. She didn't know me, nor I her, but she needed and wanted to talk about the circumstances that led to her son's untimely passing. Talking about the reality is a form of catharsis and a necessary element of the grieving process.

My prayer for Chloe's parents, brother, and extended family during this holiday season is that they begin to heal from the terrible loss of their beloved little girl. I sincerely hope that they find comfort in knowing that Chloe will have a joyful holiday season dancing with the angels. Rest in peace, dearest Chloe.

 

[Safeguard]

Have you read the details of their claim for monetary compensation? Their pain and suffering is a small part of their claim.

Section 'a' is about Chloe's pain and suffering
Section 'b' is about Chloe's loss of earnings
Section 'c' is about their expenses and their loss of Chloe (which includes a part about their own pain and suffering)


44. As a direct and proximate result of Defendant’s negligence,

a. Decedent was injured about her body and extremities, suffered physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and died;
b. Decedent’s estate lost earnings of the Decedent and lost the benefit of the prospective net accumulations, which might reasonably have been expected but for the Decedent’s death.
c. The beneficiaries/survivors of the Decedent incurred funeral expenses, suffered loss of financial support, loss of services, lost past and future wages, future loss of support and services, loss of inheritance, sustained mental pain and suffering and loss of the Decedent’s companionship and protection, and suffered moral damages

This is pretty standard stuff for this type of litigation. Lawyer draws it up client signs.

Although I will have to Google "Moral damages"??

 

[SouthAussie]

This is pretty standard stuff for this type of litigation. Lawyer draws it up client signs.

Although I will have to Google "Moral damages"??

Yes, know. I was responding to a post that said it was about their pain and suffering (which I also know).
And without going into great detail again, my original post (further back) was that I was surprised that people could claim against a loss of inheritance of their child's earnings. Considering that the child's earnings would be for the child, and the parents don't usually inherit from the child.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I just watched the video.

He follows Chloe to the window, sticks his head out the window and then picks her up and puts her on the railing and after a few seconds go by, he drops her and then you see him crumble to the ground.

If there had been glass there, Grandpa's head would have bumped it. He KNEW that window was open.

 

[Safeguard]

<respectfully snipped> Thank you for this very thoughtful post. So much of what you say rings true. I also hope that, if they haven't already seen it, Chloe's parents will watch the video. They don't have to see the aftermath, but I think they will have an easier time getting over their denial when they know how Chloe lost her life. I really don't think they will ever be able to move forward until they face the reality of their little girl's tragic death.

Some years ago, I attended a funeral Mass and volunteered at a luncheon that followed in the church hall. A four-year-old boy had died of cancer (brain tumor), and the parish had been praying for him for several months during treatment. I didn't know the family but was asked to help out with the luncheon. The boy's mother approached me to introduce herself and thank me for my service that day. Besides introducing myself and expressing sympathy for the loss of her child, I really didn't know what else I should say. The mother talked to me about her little boy's illness and how difficult it had been on her and his father, and their two other children. She didn't know me, nor I her, but she needed and wanted to talk about the circumstances that led to her son's untimely passing. Talking about the reality is a form of catharsis and a necessary element of the grieving process.

My prayer for Chloe's parents, brother, and extended family during this holiday season is that they begin to heal from the terrible loss of their beloved little girl. I sincerely hope that they find comfort in knowing that Chloe will have a joyful holiday season dancing with the angels. Rest in peace, dearest Chloe.

Thank you as well. That was a beautiful post. Thank you for finding some charity in your heart for this family and the child who's mother you spoke with. As a home heath care worker I was sometimes the last person my clients confided in. It's a sacred trust and a privilege to hear these stories.

I can picture all the gifts they anticipated for their sweet little girl and now having to decide what gifts are allowed/would be appropriate for her grave site.

Those of us who haven't walked in their shoes, should have a very merry Christmas indeed.

(love Betty Davis btw, always a pleasure to see your username and avatar!).

 

[Safeguard]

I was surprised that people could claim against a loss of inheritance of their child's earnings. Considering that the child's earnings would be for themselves, and the parents don't usually inherit from the child.

I too, find that odd. There really is no way of determining what a toddler might have earned in their entire lifetime anyway.

And no one but the child should be allowed to claim to benefit from their own earnings.

 

[SouthAussie]

I too, find that odd. There really is no way of determining what a toddler might have earned in their entire lifetime anyway.

And no one but the child should be allowed to claim to benefit from their own earnings.

My guess is that a lawsuit attorney pushes for as much as he can - even to the outer limits of reality - then settles for what he gets.

 

[Chikkamma]

Video Releases Of Toddler Who Fell Out Of Grandpa's Arms On Cruise Ship • The Hollywood Unlocked

The second picture in the article showing a still image of SA swinging Chloe above his head towards an open window... Yikes!

 

[SouthAussie]

Video Releases Of Toddler Who Fell Out Of Grandpa's Arms On Cruise Ship • The Hollywood Unlocked

The second picture in the article of SA swinging Chloe practically above his head towards an open window... Yikes!

Wow ... way, way, way above the height of the barrier rail.

I wonder if we will ever know what the heck he thought he was doing??
Playing the up-and-woops-I-nearly-dropped-you game? (Then he did)
Swinging her onto his shoulders? (In a most precarious place)