IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[vallie]

Do you have a source for this? I thought they had flown to San Juan the day before and spent a night in a hotel.

I can't recall the source, will hv to re-read but notice Chloe wears same outfit(lavender jumper) on the flight,, the airport photo where SA holds her, the RCCL boarding picture where her brother is holding her and the pic of her with her mom where its captioned that it was taken earlier that day.

 

[SouthAussie]

I sense more anger than greed. They don't need money. They need to do something, anything for Chloe, they need a way to vent that doesn't dishoner what she would have wanted. jmo.

I think their attorney would like 1/3 of the highest amount possible.
I think he will keep their anger festering and keep them well involved with the lawsuit until an end is achieved (and that could be for a long time, if the Royal Caribbean legal team delay and delay).
This is his income too.

There are better, healthier, fairer ways to stay busy and honour their daughter. imo

 

[Arkay]

I think their attorney would like 1/3 of the highest amount possible.
I think he will keep their anger festering and keep them well involved with the lawsuit until an end is achieved (and that could be for a long time, if the Royal Caribbean legal team delay and delay).
This is his income too.

There are better, healthier, fairer ways to stay busy and honour their daughter. imo

I can't imagine what this mother is going through. She lost her baby so senselessly, but at the hands of her own father. I think she is motivated by the lawsuit because she doesn't know where to direct her anger and grief. Maybe in private she's been screaming at her father, maybe her husband wants to shun the grandfather---who can know except the family?

It must be so emotionally impossible to accept the truth if they have seen the video. The lawsuit is an outlet that provides a target for blame that lies outside of the extended family, and I agree that from the lawyer's perspective, there's a possible juicy settlement on the horizon.

In my opinion the focus would be best directed on the son. Here's a child who has lost his baby sister. His parents are in agony. His grandpa is at fault. Maybe subconsciously he doesn't even feel safe because his sister wasn't safe. His world has been permanently upended and his childhood innocence is demolished. Mom, Dad, grandparents...focus on helping your little boy.

 

[SouthAussie]

I can't imagine what this mother is going through. She lost her baby so senselessly, but at the hands of her own father. I think she is motivated by the lawsuit because she doesn't know where to direct her anger and grief. Maybe in private she's been screaming at her father, maybe her husband wants to shun the grandfather---who can know except the family?

It must be so emotionally impossible to accept the truth if they have seen the video. The lawsuit is an outlet that provides a target for blame that lies outside of the extended family, and I agree that from the lawyer's perspective, there's a possible juicy settlement on the horizon.

In my opinion the focus would be best directed on the son. Here's a child who has lost his baby sister. His parents are in agony. His grandpa is at fault. Maybe subconsciously he doesn't even feel safe because his sister wasn't safe. His world has been permanently upended and his childhood innocence is demolished. Mom, Dad, grandparents...focus on helping your little boy.

I 100% agree.

I have been thinking about Chloe's brother a lot. He needs protection and a security blanket of love wrapped around him.
Protection from the numbness and all-encompasing grief of his parents.
Protection from the feelings of not now trusting this grandfather-culprit.
Protection from the thoughtless things he may hear and thoughtless things that are said by other children directly to him.

I only hope that another set of grandparents have taken him under their loving wing for a while.
And are filling him with activities, and a smile, and perhaps some nice things to do for his sister - like tying ribbons of her favourite colour around lollipops and handing them out at school/hockey/wherever .


Chloe's family said in her obituary that she was a Notre Dame hockey fan but her "favorite player" was her brother.
"She watched from the stands at countless games and practices and was everyone's favorite team mascot. Every teammate was a brother to Chloe," her obituary reads.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chloe-wiegand-obituary-royal-caribbean-cruise/130623/

 

[SouthAussie]

I just noticed in the video at this link .... (at about the 1:15 min mark)

"Investigators say that the girl was travelling with her parents, two siblings, and two sets of grandparents ...."
‘Cherished Beyond Measure’: Family of Indiana Toddler Killed in Fall From Cruise Ship Pens Heartbreaking Obituary

I didn't realise, there is another sibling as well as the hockey playing brother?

 

[neesaki]

Wow ... way, way, way above the height of the barrier rail.

I wonder if we will ever know what the heck he thought he was doing??
Playing the up-and-woops-I-nearly-dropped-you game? (Then he did)
Swinging her onto his shoulders? (In a most precarious place)

It’s unimaginable isn’t it? I can’t even begin to think where this man’s mind was, other than, it was either intentional, or the man has very serious problems ... i.e., deviant. Either way, a dangerous man. IMO

 

[sl222]

It's not correct to say that "no one here wants to cut the parents any slack" and that everyone thinks they are "money-grubbing." I can't count the number of times they and their actions and what they've been through have been spoken of in compassionate ways.

 

[MyBelle]

I get the feeling that no one wants to cut Chloe's parents any slack here...

I can't help but wonder, when there are so many deliberate murders that we discuss on wb's, why that is?

I know there are some here who have implied that SA deliberately killed Chloe, even someone who felt that he did it because she was becoming "verbal" impying abuse, that we have zero evidence of.

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories. There is nothing we have in front of us, to even hint, that her grandpa planned to kill this baby or was abusing her in any way. (Other than negligence in this one tragic incident ! ).

I am interested in the outcome of this case primarily because a tiny girl lost her life, and we all lost whatever contribution her life may have held.

(Plus, I am nosy, and have always been interested in the human condition and interested in True Crime like the rest of you).

Is it really necessary to speculate that the SA wanted her dead? And that her family are greedy, money grubbing people?

I agree that they are behaving badly, and that SA alone killed the child.

I disagree that he planned it, intended to do it, or that her parents were trying to gain financially from her death.

I agree with you. I've stayed away from this thread because of the cruel comments being made about the parents being greedy and that's why they filed the lawsuit. The parents are victims. This is a family very clearly in despair and Puerto Rico prosecutors are playing a very cruel game of "piling on."

Similar comments were made about Lane Grave's parents when he was killed by an alligator at Disney World. That they should have known there were very real alligators lurking in the lagoon in a park where everything else is pure fantasy. There is a now wall around that lagoon and a memorial to the child that is a sculpture of a lighthouse. The same logo is for the Lane Thomas Foundation. The Foundation is doing wonderful work providing financial support to parents of hospitalized children in need of life-saving organ transplants.

The wait of six months before filing misdemeanor charges is an indication to me that Puerto Rico's prosecutors have a political agenda. Shortly after Chloe's death there were massive protests in San Juan over corrupt government officials. The situation was dangerous and the cruise lines decided not to dock there. That cost San Juan a lot of tourism dollars. What better way to retaliate against the cruise line than exploit a grieving family that were their guests and create international publicity over an accidental death.

I think the wrongful death lawsuit will be settled very quickly and quietly and the result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be. I also believe the parents will do something positive to ensure the legacy of their beautiful Chloe lives on.

JMO
Disney World unveils lighthouse sculpture to honor boy killed by alligator

Puerto Rico protests: Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises cancel stops

 

[neesaki]

I get the feeling that no one wants to cut Chloe's parents any slack here...

I can't help but wonder, when there are so many deliberate murders that we discuss on wb's, why that is?

I know there are some here who have implied that SA deliberately killed Chloe, even someone who felt that he did it because she was becoming "verbal" impying abuse, that we have zero evidence of.

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories. There is nothing we have in front of us, to even hint, that her grandpa planned to kill this baby or was abusing her in any way. (Other than negligence in this one tragic incident ! ).

I am interested in the outcome of this case primarily because a tiny girl lost her life, and we all lost whatever contribution her life may have held.

(Plus, I am nosy, and have always been interested in the human condition and interested in True Crime like the rest of you).

Is it really necessary to speculate that the SA wanted her dead? And that her family are greedy, money grubbing people?

I agree that they are behaving badly, and that SA alone killed the child.

I disagree that he planned it, intended to do it, or that her parents were trying to gain financially from her death.

Hi Safeguard, I do respect your views and opinion. But if you could help me out on one point, regarding the bolded. I would like to hear a plausible explanation for such overt and blatant child abuse, as in this instance, that led to this tragedy.

IOW, how/ why would a loving adult do this to a baby if they cared about protecting her from harm, and wanted her to live? I just know I cannot wrap my head around it. TIA

 

[al66pine]

Window Design, Prior Injuries or Deaths

Has anyone found any prior similar accidents occurring on RCCL ships?


Paragraph below alleges there has/have been. I imagine others have gone overboard and died (alcohol involved, over railings, falling to a lower deck, etc.) falling from Frdm/Seas. Has anyone found injuries or deaths by a toddler/sml child going out window? Esp a window w parent/guardian/even a stranger at that very scene, i.e., conceivably involved in holding/standing/‘assisting’ child into a position from which the child could fall thru window.? Or a toddler/sml child pushing chair/furniture upto window and going overboard?

Complaint Count I. General Negligence

Paragraph 35. (g) “Failure to ascertain the cause of prior similar accidents occurring on any of Defendant’s vessels, fleet wide, so as to take adequate measures to prevent their reoccurrence, and more particularly this accident; and/or”

 

[Chikkamma]

I sense more anger than greed. They don't need money. They need to do something, anything for Chloe, they need a way to vent that doesn't dishoner what she would have wanted. jmo.

Maybe it is the skeptic in me, but I can’t help wonder why their anger isn’t directed towards the person directly responsible for dropping her out of the window? And whether it has anything to do with his meager bank account?

As someone mentioned earlier, they could have honored her by having SA accept responsibility and educate others about the danger of windows and window safety. This would have honored Chloe and even saved lives. Suing the cruise line saves no lives (since no toddlers have gone out of windows on cruise ships before) and dishonors Chloe’s memory by making her legacy “the history of court cases”.

JMO.

 

[Arkay]

Freedom of the Seas Squeeze Pictures

I don't think I did this correctly, but I'm trying to insert an image of the bar next to where this happened. I see people saying it's not a children's area because there are only adults around, and there's a bar there. However, (I'm sure someone more skilled than I has already done this, but I can't read all the comments, too many), clearly in the video we can all see the word "squeeze." I thought it must be a juice bar, so I googled it and it is. Therefore it's not a bar serving liquor, but it is also absolutely not a children's area. I've been on Royal Caribbean and the children's area is indoors with counselors to watch them, and there are several places outside that have children's attractions. This is not that.
Even before the release of the video, why is the lawyer saying it's a children's area when it is so starkly not? There are no children's accouterments or child-sized playthings. A juice bar with stools, lounges set up near a small pool, adults everywhere, and the unfortunate bank of windows. The picture I saw is stock footage from 2018, the Squeeze Bar on Freedom of the Seas.

 

[Arkay]

I just noticed in the video at this link .... (at about the 1:15 min mark)

"Investigators say that the girl was travelling with her parents, two siblings, and two sets of grandparents ...."
‘Cherished Beyond Measure’: Family of Indiana Toddler Killed in Fall From Cruise Ship Pens Heartbreaking Obituary

I didn't realise, there is another sibling as well as the hockey playing brother?

The obituary stated that she had one brother, a 10-yr old. It mentions many other relatives whom Chloe leaves behind, but not any other siblings. Also, it appears there were three sets of grandparents, because the obit lists four people as maternal grandparents. Apparently the mother's parents are divorced and both remarried. Who went on the cruise, though? All six?

 

[Chikkamma]

I agree with you. I've stayed away from this thread because of the cruel comments being made about the parents being greedy and that's why they filed the lawsuit. The parents are victims. This is a family very clearly in despair and Puerto Rico prosecutors are playing a very cruel game of "piling on."

Similar comments were made about Lane Grave's parents when he was killed by an alligator at Disney World. That they should have known there were very real alligators lurking in the lagoon in a park where everything else is pure fantasy. There is a now wall around that lagoon and a memorial to the child that is a sculpture of a lighthouse. The same logo is for the Lane Thomas Foundation. The Foundation is doing wonderful work providing financial support to parents of hospitalized children in need of life-saving organ transplants.

The wait of six months before filing misdemeanor charges is an indication to me that Puerto Rico's prosecutors have a political agenda. Shortly after Chloe's death there were massive protests in San Juan over corrupt government officials. The situation was dangerous and the cruise lines decided not to dock there. That cost San Juan a lot of tourism dollars. What better way to retaliate against the cruise line than exploit a grieving family that were their guests and create international publicity over an accidental death.

I think the wrongful death lawsuit will be settled very quickly and quietly and the result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be. I also believe the parents will do something positive to ensure the legacy of their beautiful Chloe lives on.

JMO
Disney World unveils lighthouse sculpture to honor boy killed by alligator

Puerto Rico protests: Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises cancel stops

The prosecutors in PR have not “piled on” anything. Salvatore Anello has been charged with the offense negligent homicide. That it is.

If you haven’t already, I suggest you watch the CCTV footage to see for yourself why they chose to prosecute this case. We, as a society, must value childrens’ lives and hold accountable those whose reckless actions snuff out those young lives.

 

[BeachSky]

Cruise ship death: Video shows minutes before Chloe Wiegand fatal fall
To me this family presser video is sad.
The words speak of unity but ...it feels/looks/ like everything is falling apart.
JMO

 

[neesaki]

The prosecutors in PR have not “piled on” anything. Salvatore Anello has been charged with the offense negligent homicide. That it is.

If you haven’t already, I suggest you watch the CCTV footage to see for yourself why they chose to prosecute this case. We, as a society, must value childrens’ lives and hold accountable those whose reckless actions snuff out those young lives.

Bolded, very true. And from what I’ve seen from the video, he should consider himself quite fortunate to not have more serious charges against him. JMO

 

[neesaki]

Cruise ship death: Video shows minutes before Chloe Wiegand fatal fall
To me this family presser video is sad.
The words speak of unity but ...it feels/looks/ like everything is falling apart.
JMO

Chloe’s poor father, He’s the one shouldering the burden, just look at him. He blames himself. It’s heartbreaking.

 

[Arkay]

I agree with you. I've stayed away from this thread because of the cruel comments being made about the parents being greedy and that's why they filed the lawsuit. The parents are victims. This is a family very clearly in despair and Puerto Rico prosecutors are playing a very cruel game of "piling on."


The wait of six months before filing misdemeanor charges is an indication to me that Puerto Rico's prosecutors have a political agenda. Shortly after Chloe's death there were massive protests in San Juan over corrupt government officials. The situation was dangerous and the cruise lines decided not to dock there. That cost San Juan a lot of tourism dollars. What better way to retaliate against the cruise line than exploit a grieving family that were their guests and create international publicity over an accidental death.



JMO

Puerto Rico protests: Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises cancel stops

<snipped for brevity>

It's kind of you to think of this family in despair, as we all do, but I do disagree with your basic contention.
It's true that the cruise ships didn't dock for awhile, but in my opinion there is absolutely no way that Puerto Rican officials would "retaliate" against the cruise ship companies for costing them tourism dollars. That would be counterproductive for their economy.
I've docked in Puerto Rico at least ten times. The instant you walk down the gangplank, you are surrounded by hundreds of souvenir stalls and every other kind of merchandise imaginable. Those merchants depend on the tourists for a living. So do the majority of the stores and restaurants in Old San Juan. There are docking fees, without which the economy would suffer tremendously. IMO the LAST thing the PR officials want is for the cruise ships to keep away, and as you yourself said, it was the cruise lines that decided not to dock and that cost a lot of tourism dollars. They do NOT want to chase away the ships.

 

[Snoods]

The video is so damning, I'm stunned.
When I started watching it I didn't think it would be clear enough to really see what happened, but I was shocked. Grandpa leans almost his entire upper body out of the open window before picking up Chloe and pretty much chucking her out the window. He has her entire body outside the open window.

 

[neesaki]

<snipped for brevity>

It's kind of you to think of this family in despair, as we all do, but I do disagree with your basic contention.
It's true that the cruise ships didn't dock for awhile, but in my opinion there is absolutely no way that Puerto Rican officials would "retaliate" against the cruise ship companies for costing them tourism dollars. That would be counterproductive for their economy.
I've docked in Puerto Rico at least ten times. The instant you walk down the gangplank, you are surrounded by hundreds of souvenir stalls and every other kind of merchandise imaginable. Those merchants depend on the tourists for a living. So do the majority of the stores and restaurants in Old San Juan. There are docking fees, without which the economy would suffer tremendously. IMO the LAST thing the PR officials want is for the cruise ships to keep away, and as you yourself said, it was the cruise lines that decided not to dock and that cost a lot of tourism dollars. They do NOT want to chase away the ships.

Hello Arkay... could you clarify what this post is in response to? I’m just trying to get the context, that’s all. TIA