IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[MyBelle]

If SA has a trial, which would be the 2nd stupidest thing he ever did, who would be his defense witness list?

1. Doctor, verifying SA "color blindness". (Good luck finding one who is credible on that).
2. His wife?
3. Chloe's Mother?
4. Chloe's Father?

5. SA testifying on his own behalf? (Don't do it!).

Honestly, even if the Wiegand's supported SA prior to watching the video, I don't see how they could after watching the video. They must have seen it by now, unless they are so far into denial on this, they still think that the actions are completely normal.

How would a jury react to Chloe's parents supporting SA?

BBM. This isn't true. It is easily diagnosed. The military requires recruits to pass a test for color blindness and symptoms can show up in childhood. My BIL is colorblind and he does not see blue/green. I've watched the videos and the vertical window supports block the camera's view of the actual window.

What are the Color Blindness Test and Diagnosis | Everyday Health

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Isn’t that unethical? Like possible disbarment unethical?

Google search found this:

Criminal defense attorneys have a duty to zealously represent their clients and guard their confidences. However, they also have a duty to the court not to present evidence that they know is false, fraudulent, or perjured, whether it’s coming from the defendant or a witness whom the lawyer knows intends to lie. A lawyer who knowingly uses or presents perjured testimony risks serious consequences. Under the profession’s code of ethics (the Canons of Professional Ethics of the American Bar Association), doing so subjects the lawyer to discipline—and quite possibly, disbarment.

The technical term is “subornation of perjury“: the crime of persuading a person to commit perjury, which is the swearing of a false oath to tell the truth in a legal proceeding, whether spoken or written.

Which is why defense attorneys sometimes say to their clients "don't tell me, I don't want to know".

 

[Safeguard]

Yes, for some reason this is the first video where I could see where we see Chloe’s arm through the 1/4 of the window that isn’t open, right next to them on their right.

You can see her arm *outside* through that closed 1/4 of the window. You would not be able to see her arm through the window if it was not outside the window!

Yes! I've mentioned that before. Totally must have been outside the window.

 

[jeena]

Thank you! Yes, I found it. I had not seen this one before, and it was not coming up for me when searching.

YW. I watched it again but didn't see the photo of the toddler dangling by her swimsuit straps. I wonder if that photo was
another YouTube video that played after this one. I think the caption said the person dangling the toddler got two years in prison.

 

[mickey2942]

BBM. This isn't true. It is easily diagnosed. The military requires recruits to pass a test for color blindness and symptoms can show up in childhood. My BIL is colorblind and he does not see blue/green. I've watched the videos and the vertical window supports block the camera's view of the actual window.

What are the Color Blindness Test and Diagnosis | Everyday Health

JMO

The issue is, that I believe SA is malingering, ie...lying. And that is easily identified by a qualified ophthalmologist or optometrist.

 

[MyBelle]

If I am understanding correctly, Winkleman represents the Wiegands and would have no part in Anello's defense? He has really put his foot squarely in his own mouth a couple of times IMO.

I cannot find it now, but there was one interview where Winkleman is told that it appears that Anello's head and upper body are through the window. He says something to the effect that that is "what it looks like, [but]...", then they cut off.

From this and some other statements he's made, its obvious that Anello's defense is "not his job".

I've seen no video that shows Anello's "head and upper body are through the window." That would be quite a feat considering the window is 18" inches from the railing. I'll believe that when it's linked.

JMO

 

[1&2&3]

I haven’t seen this mentioned. If someone from their group reads WS, let’s see how long it takes for this to come out.

From statements in the Complaint, Chloe had been swimming with her mother prior to SA taking over her care. Therefore, her swimsuit would be wet that she was wearing. Would her wet swimsuit make it more difficult for SA to hold onto her?

 

[MyBelle]

The issue is, that I believe SA is malingering, ie...lying. And that is easily identified by a qualified ophthalmologist or optometrist.

SA has no reason to lie about something that I'm betting has already been documented by an expert. I'm also betting the AG is aware of it and that's why she's offered a "deal" that SA turned down.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how this will be done. The passengers on a cruise usually are from all around the world. The crew is always multi-national as well, and typically do not stay on the same ship for very long.
I fervently hope RCCL was able to get written and videotaped statements from the eyewitnesses, because it will be extremely difficult, not to mention costly, to fly them in from all over the world to testify. If they are even willing and able and can spare the time for it. I would think that their statements would be admissible in court but maybe not, because they can't be cross-examined.
Those of you with legal knowledge, could you enlighten me?

I think that witnesses can testify in court over a live video conferencing link, if their testimony is important and they live elsewhere.

How Do I Present My Witness in the Courtroom by Video Conference aka Skype?
When Are Witnesses Allowed to Testify Via Video-conference? – Slaw

 

[Arkay]

Safeguard, thank you for the compliments.
I'm a smoker, too. I don't know if SA is a smoker or not, but I'm certain he's not in a smoking section on the ship. There are usually a very few isolated areas where smoking is permitted. On RC it's usually on one side of the ship on the 5th deck, which is enclosed for smokers. On the 10th deck there is usually a segregated area on the opposite side of the ship, if I recall usually on the same deck as the Windjammer (RC's buffet) but way, way down the deck. There is usually one bar indoors where smoking is allowed, and an area provided for smokers in the casino. It's different on other cruise lines. For example, eight years ago on a Mediterranean cruise, not RC, we were allowed to smoke on the balconies.
Even though the Squeeze bar serves alcohol, that does not at all look like a smoking area. It's not isolated and segregated and I do not see the tables set up with ashtrays.
It may be possible that he was smoking illegally and looked out the window to throw out the cigarette. I don't see it on video but maybe. However, nothing that follows makes sense regarding hoisting this beautiful baby out of the window, so I don't even think that smoking/not smoking played any role in these events.

 

[MyBelle]

Winkleman's point is that if the window didn't open, SA could not have put his head and upper body through the window. His job is to find RCCL responsible and held accountable for Chloe's death.

I've seen no video that shows SA's head and upper body through the window. I do agree, Winkleman's job is to find RCCL responsible and he'll do his job quite well.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

I think that witnesses can testify in court over a live video conferencing link, if their testimony is important and they live elsewhere.

How Do I Present My Witness in the Courtroom by Video Conference aka Skype?
When Are Witnesses Allowed to Testify Via Video-conference? – Slaw

Thank you, SouthAussie. Good information.

 

[MsFacetious]

SA has no reason to lie about something that I'm betting has already been documented by an expert. I'm also betting the AG is aware of it and that's why she's offered a "deal" that SA turned down.

JMO

I'm still waiting for verification that he was offered an actual deal.

I would expect a statement from the prosecution saying something like "we offered the defendant a VERY generous plea deal but he has turned it down. So we are ready to take the case to trial and seek the maximum penalty."

I've seen nothing like that at all. In fact what I have seen appears to dispute that he was offered a deal. Anyone else seen something I haven't?

 

[MyBelle]

I think it was puerto rico who released that footage to La Comay.
As An Aussie if I wanted to release sensitive footage like that I would go to an English speaking media outlet and I imagine the same for an American or Englishman.

I have no doubt it was Puerto Rico LE or AG who leaked the photo to the press. It's obvious they are trying to convict the grandfather in the court of public opinion.

JMO

 

[jeena]

Yes, for some reason this is the first video where I could see where we see Chloe’s arm through the 1/4 of the window that isn’t open, right next to them on their right.

You can see her arm *outside* through that closed 1/4 of the window. You would not be able to see her arm through the window if it was not outside the window!

I don't see it, but you reminded me the window was partially closed, so how could SA think it was fully closed?

 

[MyBelle]

This is correct. I have heard of people walking through glass because they did not realize the glass was there.

This is the first time I have ever heard of the reverse - they thought there was glass.

Because you are absolutely correct - the default human assumption to a clear view is NO glass. Not the opposite.

I disagree. If SA is colorblind--and I believe he is--he would have assumed glass would be in all the windows because why would a ship that has open air just a few feet away need to put windows that had no glass? The lower windows don't open. The upper windows don't open. The windows in passenger state rooms don't open.

JMO

 

[Safeguard]

Yes, for some reason this is the first video where I could see where we see Chloe’s arm through the 1/4 of the window that isn’t open, right next to them on their right.

You can see her arm *outside* through that closed 1/4 of the window. You would not be able to see her arm through the window if it was not outside the window!

Yes! I've mentioned that before. Totally must have been outside the window.
There's no way to see something through a window, that's not outside!

I've seen no video that shows SA's head and upper body through the window. I do agree, Winkleman's job is to find RCCL responsible and he'll do his job quite well.

JMO

I don't know if I'd say, "through" but he LEANS out far enough for me to feel pretty damn certain he knows that window is open. That's also the only reason to pick that window to put that baby up to to she can look OUT.

 

[Safeguard]

The issue is, that I believe SA is malingering, ie...lying. And that is easily identified by a qualified ophthalmologist or optometrist.

The issues is not about what you believe. He's color blind, it's verifiable, but I don't think it factors in to being able to distinguish "Open" from "Closed".

 

[Safeguard]

I haven’t seen this mentioned. If someone from their group reads WS, let’s see how long it takes for this to come out.

From statements in the Complaint, Chloe had been swimming with her mother prior to SA taking over her care. Therefore, her swimsuit would be wet that she was wearing. Would her wet swimsuit make it more difficult for SA to hold onto her?

You missed it. It's been mentioned.

 

[1&2&3]

I think SA is in a no-win position!

If he takes the plea deal, which requires him to plead guilty, then Chloe’s parents, his step daughter and son-in-law, loose their suit.

This means he caused them to loose their daughter and the mega bucks the parents are anticipating RCCL settling for.

On the other hand, if he goes to trial, anticipation is he will be found guilty and serve three years in jail.

IMO, SA is being pressured to not take the plea deal (if one has been offered). I hate to say this, however, I think the mother of Chloe, being a lawyer herself, is seeing the $$$ signs. RCCL may wait till they get to the courthouse on trial date, but KW thinks they will come up with money. JMO.