IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[Chikkamma]

I'm confident that as the grandfather approached that wall of windows, his attention was totally on the child ahead of him rather than the color of the windows.

Many color blind people do not see certain colors at all, which can be dangerous and why our military tests all recruits for it.

JMO

Even if he not see the difference in window color, surely SA would have noticed the 1/3 of window (including the handle) still in the window frame. This would be an indication to a person with eyes that this is a window that has been slid open.

 

[MyBelle]

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Not in the case of the ship’s windows. They are tinted. So even if he couldn’t see the actual color that people who are not colorblind see, he does see “shades.” Therefore if all closed windows are tinted and an open window is not, he would see a difference. JMO

I'm confident a color-blind person doesn't see a shade of a color that is not opaque. The windows were tinted and they were translucent.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Not in the case of the ship’s windows. They are tinted. So even if he couldn’t see the actual color that people who are not colorblind see, he does see “shades.” Therefore if all closed windows are tinted and an open window is not, he would see a difference. JMO

I'm confident a color-blind person doesn't see a shade of a color that is not opaque. The windows were tinted and they were translucent.

JMO

 

[Chikkamma]

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. A person is color blind at birth so when SA was diagnosed is irrelevant. It really doesn't matter when Begnaud was shown the medical records. Begnaud obviously believes SA is color blind. Begnaud has no reason to lie about it.

JMO

I didn’t say it was important when Begnaud was shown the records. I said was important when SA received his alleged diagnosis.

If he got a note from a doctor only after the incident, it highly suspect for obvious reasons.

 

[MyBelle]

Possible Defense Witnesses for SA? Testifying to What?
@mickey2942
Aside from dr. re colorblindness & SA in own defense, what can SA’s wife, AW, & KSW say?

Imo they cannot testify re SA's actions & stmts while SA 'supervised' C - say, 10 - 30 - 45 min's - before SA dropped Chloe, because presumably SA's wife, KSW, and AW were not there in H2O Zone or close to Squeeze. Presumably the other Gr'parents were not there either.

Possibly could testify re SA's actions & stmts after he dropped her; imo could be relevant and admissible as part of the sentencing. But IDK how that couId be admissible to negate any element of the crime, IOW to prevent his conviction.

At trial, the burden will be on the prosecution, not the defense. The mother, an attorney, is asking for an investigation into the leaking of the video. I don't blame her. In the U.S., the media doesn't assist the prosecution by trying to taint the defendant prior to trial. I can think of no better example than Richard Jewell.

I'm pretty confident that if this had happened in the U.S., there would be no prosecution of the grandfather.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

I'm confident a color-blind person doesn't see a shade of a color that is not opaque. The windows were tinted and they were translucent.

JMO

A color blind person, or a blind person, would have noticed that he didn’t smack his head on the glass when he leaned out. Twice.

 

[MyBelle]

I didn’t say it was important when Begnaud was shown the records. I said was important when SA received his alleged diagnosis.

If he got a note from a doctor only after the incident, it highly suspect for obvious reasons.

It's not highly suspect to me and I doubt it will be to the court.

It is condition present at birth. SA may have suspected it for many years but nothing tragic resulted from it. Now that tragedy has resulted, he may have been searching for reasons why he assumed the window was closed.

JMO

 

[Safeguard]

SA and Winkleman have made several false public claims. They publicly claimed that SA didn’t know the window was open. They publicly claimed that the reason SA lifted Chloe up was because she couldn’t reach the lower level window (which literally anyone, especially children, can easily reach).

I have no idea why they are making public claims that could be easily revealed in court to be lies, but they are doing it nonetheless. Colorblindness might be another one of them.

The color blind thing can be easily disproved. The other things you mention not so much. That claim came out late in the day, and I have no doubt they poured over his medical records to come up with it.

 

[MyBelle]

A color blind person, or a blind person, would have noticed that he didn’t smack his head on the glass when he leaned out. Twice.

The window was at an outward angle and more than 18 inches beyond the railing. I've seen nothing that proves SA leaned out his head and upper body. If I'm mistaken, please post a link.

JMO

 

[Chikkamma]

His attorney told the media he was offered a deal and it isn't in writing. Now that PR decided to leak the video after the parents specifically said they had seen the video and didn't want it published in order to protect their son from it, it got leaked to further humiliate the parents because they filed a civil lawsuit.

JMO

Grandfather offered plea deal in girl's cruise ship death as Puerto Rico TV show airs video

Well, if his attorney said it, it must be true.

You seem to be making a lot of unfounded and defamatory accusations about Puerto Rico and their legal system in your posts. There is no evidence that Puerto Rican authorities were the ones to release the video. Also, RCCL is the legal owner of the footage and they are technically free to release it to whomever they like. They do not need the Wiegands’ permission.

 

[MyBelle]

The color blind thing can be easily disproved. The other things you mention not so much. That claim came out late in the day, and I have no doubt they poured over his medical records to come up with it.

I think the video does show the reason SA lifted Chloe is because she lifted her arms to him. That's a universal sign that the child wants to be picked up and held. I don't know any grandparent who will resist that request.

JMO

 

[neesaki]

He easily breeches the window opening with his arm, but could his head do the same while leaning over the railing?

Yes, he leans way,way, way over. Not sure what you’re missing?

 

[MyBelle]

Well, if his attorney said it, it must be true.

Feel free to prove it isn't true. The burden of proof rests solely on the prosecution for the criminal case and on the plaintiff in the civil case. In my experience, attorneys--civil or criminal--don't lie if the lie can be easily disproved.

JMO

 

[Safeguard]

I think the video does show the reason SA lifted Chloe is because she lifted her arms to him. That's a universal sign that the child wants to be picked up and held.

The videos I saw show nothing of the kind. You can't even see Chloe after she arrives at the window, untill he lifts her about waist high, the view of her is completely obscured. Please provide a screen grab, or even a timestamp for where, in any released footage you see what you claim you do, Chloe on deck with her arms raised... TIA!

 

[they'll get you]

Here is another question I have wondered about. Was this the first cruise Anello and/or the Wiegands had ever been on?

That question has been asked and we don’t know.

 

[they'll get you]

I

know people hate her because of the lawsuit. But I just can't bring myself to pick her apart for every little thing.
Not right now anyway.

ITA.

 

[Chikkamma]

At trial, the burden will be on the prosecution, not the defense. The mother, an attorney, is asking for an investigation into the leaking of the video. I don't blame her. In the U.S., the media doesn't assist the prosecution by trying to taint the defendant prior to trial. I can think of no better example than Richard Jewell.

I'm pretty confident that if this had happened in the U.S., there would be no prosecution of the grandfather.

JMO

Puerto Rico is part of the United States and the people who live there are U.S. citizens with U.S. passports. Have you ever been to Puerto Rico? You seem to have a lot of opinions about it, some of which are becoming slanderous.

Again, the video does not belong to the Wiegands. It is properly of RCCL.

 

[IceIce9]

Yes, he leans way,way, way over. Not sure what you’re missing?

He leaned so far out the window that he would have given himself a concussion and knocked himself out if there was glass, lol.

 

[MyBelle]

The videos I saw show nothing of the kind. You can't even see Chloe after she arrives at the window, untill he lifts her about waist high, the view of her is completely obscured. Please provide a screen grab, or even a timestamp for where, in any released footage you see what you claim you do, Chloe on deck with her arms raised... TIA!

I saw her lifting her arms in one video. I also clearly noted it was my opinion.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

That question has been asked and we don’t know.

I read somewhere that they had been on Disney cruises before but since I don’t have the link readily available call it MOO.