IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[al66pine]

LE Getting SA to Crack?

.... Hopefully LE can get SA to crack and tell the truth, or someone can and blow this whole thing out of the water once and for all.

@SaguaroSpirit sbm
If PR's laws re crim defendant's rights are similar to state laws, after a defendant engages legal counsel, PR LE is prohibited from questioning him, at least without counsel there. And w counsel's job to ensure SA's rights, why would counsel allow that to happen? Doubtful imo that LE can "get SA to crack." (Sorry if I am misreading your post.)

Reaching a plea agreement is a different issue/process and may still be a possibility. TV & movies often show a conference room w crim prosecutors sitting across from defendant & def atty, w all spit-balling, talking off the cuff, about a poss plea deal. From discussions w crim def attys & prosecutors, I understand it rarely happens that way, w defendant in same room.

As you say, maybe someone can "get SA to crack" {{ETA: and maybe from there a plea agreement can be reached.}}

 

[oviedo]

This is mine
As I posted on my return from RCCL the effort to bend at the waist to get your head and shoulders outside the window is not easy - even more so because of his physique IMO
He wanted her outside that window to play his game
JMO

I hope this helps a bit.
View attachment 222866

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

For some reason I imagine this going down as someone comes to the family while they were in the dining area, whatever, about Chloe’s arrangements in their cabin, SA says, “Oh, I’ll go get her,” and he finds KW and offers to watch Chloe while mom goes to speak with cabin steward.

I wonder about the circumstances next. SA falls and screams, somehow the son gets over there first (because he was in the pool?), then son tells mom “something happened to Chloe,” mom screams, “take me to my baby, where is my baby,” someone says she went out the window, crew attempts to restrain her, she looks down (never once confused about where or what “invisible” window they meant) and saw concrete. KW’s mother says upon arriving, “who has an open window on the 11th floor?” SA is still mumbling “I thought there was glass, I thought it was like a hockey game.”

Police arrive, SA won’t answer questions or submit to blood test, KW and AW refuse to watch video, and then everyone is sedated and gets brought to hotel room provided by RC.

I wonder about all of that , myself. Smells a little like a setup, but...what do I know?

 

[SuziQ]

*IF* his head or arm went past the window pane. His head would have to have traversed an 18” gap to go outside of the window. I think it did and SA knows he will have to explain that fact, which is why he said the window was “further out than I expected it to be” in the Begnaud interview.

I don't have a link for you, but it was much less than 18 inches.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I know that KW took some criticism for wearing red lipstick.

Some psychological theorists say you should wear blue to court, to show honesty. Gray would show neutrality. Red shows dominance - "don't mess with me."

Only one messing with her is SA IMHO

 

[lonetraveler]

Just to expand on this a bit - because I never really understood it, and others might not either - apparently there are three types of colour blindness. Green (more common), red (rare), blue (very rare). With about 8% of the male population having some colour blindness.

More than 99% of colourblind people see colour. And it looks, to me, like they all see blue. (Those closed ship windows are blue)

View attachment 222274

This is how normal colour looks:
View attachment 222267

This is how green colour blindness looks (more common):
View attachment 222271

This is how red colour blindness looks (rare):
View attachment 222272

This is how blue colour blindness looks (very rare):
View attachment 222273
Colour Blindness - Colour Blind Awareness
A Quick Introduction to Color Blindness - We are Colorblind

JMO but I think the color blindness defense was blown away as soon as the video showed him sticking his head outside of the window prior to picking up Chloe.

 

[Forever Young]

I don't have a link for you, but it was much less than 18 inches.

We have been hearing 18 inches, but some say "a foot". Six inches makes a huge difference in this case.

 

[lonetraveler]

I looked at several photos of the H2O Zone, and noticed an 18 step staircase to an open deck above the pool. Why didn't SA bring CW up there to safely enjoy the view?

That is the area I usually sun bathe. I must say that I believe that the results would have been the very same, if he stood her on the safety railing, he would have stood her or sat her on the same railing on that top deck and she would have fallen. IMO

 

[Aydrianna523]

Dbm

 

[Chikkamma]

I have a question for the poster who said that they had examined the La Comay video frame by frame; and if we do have confirmation that this was a smoking area?

I also noticed early on that SA appears to be touching his face twice while making his way to the window. At first I believed that his glasses had slid down and that he was pushing them up.

After watching it a few more times, I thought that yes, it does appear he could be smoking, and I have seen smokers hold their cigarette cupped inside their hand just like that, especially while moving through a crowded area.

On the La Comay video posted here,

Video shows heartbreaking moment grandfather lifts tot girl to window aboard cruise ship before she falls 150 feet to her death

at what would be the -6:15 mark, I am seeing what IMO could be his right arm extend out the window and back to his side very quickly. There is a black bar that appears at that point that looks like his shirt sleeve.

If that is the case it is consistent with the movement made by flicking a cigarette out the window. In which case, he would have observed it fly out and would have known the window is open.

This happens in a fraction of a second and is very hard to catch. Keep your eyes on SA, after they back the video up and show him walking to the window for a second time. This anomaly is not visible in all "takes" because they tend to stop it there - as he appears to be looking out over the window at just that point.

Forever Young- I suggest looking at this copy the video if you haven’t already. It shows the longest amount of footage from the incident:

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171

 

[Forever Young]

JMO but I think the color blindness defense was blown away as soon as the video showed him sticking his head outside of the window prior to picking up Chloe.

I thought the windows are closer to being tinted sea green, rather than blue. And the ability to distinguish green from red, is from what I understand, the most common form of color blindness. These are the folks who must pay attention to the position of which light is on, rather than the color being green or red, in traffic lights.

So the windows would appear more gray, than green. Still, a closed window would be considerably darker, even more so if the window next to it is open, due to the double pane thickness of color.

 

[Chikkamma]

His head is absolutely outside the ship in the La Comay video.

Do you think this because of the side view video? From the side view, we cannot actually see the window ledge. The white barrier his body seems to cross (from the side angle) is one of the poles supporting the guardrail. The window ledge is at least a foot out in front of him and not visible to us from the side view.

Could it be there is a mistaking of the pole holding up the railing for the window ledge (in the side view)? Or did you spot a frame in the video where his head is definitively sticking out past the window ledge?

 

[Fidobell]

Confirmed it was Winkleman:
After Chloe fell out of the window, Anello drops to his knees, according to Winkleman, and he yelled out loud, "I just dropped my child. I thought there was glass! I thought there was glass!"
Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death


I believe the family did see the video. Fox59 in South Bend reported:

Surveillance video of the incident exists, and the family waited until they saw it to file the lawsuit. They aren’t showing the video to the public, saying they don’t want the last seconds of their daughter’s life to become scrutinized on the internet. They’re also trying to prevent Chloe’s older brother from seeing it.
Family files lawsuit against Royal Caribbean over Indiana toddler’s fatal plunge on cruise ship

I know other msm said they had not but it makes sense that they waited to see the video before making a decision to sue. I know, I know, it seems like the family would decide *not* to sue after seeing what happened but that doesn't have to be the case. We don't know how the parents interpreted the video - look at how many different thoughts we've had after viewing it - they may have decided SA appears to fail to see the window was open.

Or Winkleman may have suggested that RCCL might settle for some amount regardless in order to make the publicity go away. IOW we don't know what all is driving the suit.

Despite all the different thoughts on this forum after us scrutinising the video I don't recall one person interpreting it to support SA . ( Correct t me if I'm wrong ) So I fail to see Cs parents interpreting the video, from whatever angle , in any way supporting SAs frankly ludicrous version of events .
Perhaps at one point she trusted in his word , trusted her own instinct to leave her daughter with this man , trusted her daughter's safety would be paramount . What I cant get my head around is seeing SAs actions and still taking the same stance against the cruise operator instead if directing anger at a person she entrusted her l precious wee daughter with . Baffling.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

18 Inches is in the lawsuit against RC. Paragraph 18.

 

[Yellowbeak]

I hope this helps a bit.
View attachment 222866

Is this on Freedom?

 

[Forever Young]

Forever Young- I suggest looking at this copy the video if you haven’t already. It shows the longest amount of footage from the incident:

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171

I am still seeing the anomaly at around the 10:10 mark. A black rectangular shape, consistent with what could be SA's right arm flicking something out the window.

 

[lonetraveler]

ugh again I double-posted and had to delete. Will someone experienced on Websleuths please tell me how to delete a post? Other than just back spacing to erase? Thank you!

Embarrassed to say but I've been here since God and I still backspace to delete a double post.

 

[jeena]

Family. Posters? Chloe's?
@jeena sbm Sorry about this situation in your family.
A 90 y/o grandmother w mobility difficulties passed on opportunity to struggle to climb h/s gym bleachers, up to nose-bleed rows, and sit on hard, narrow board to watch ant-size gr-dau walk across stage, shake hands, for several seconds (At least that's how I imagine it, could be wrong). Sooooo this occasion was ruined by relative not attending (one part of grad. occasion - the ceremony)? Sigh.
Then the flip side of ^,for some families, where an event is ruined by relative attending and being physically violent, drunk, drugged-up, loud, obnoxious, insulting, etc. Fortunately we do not have to be immersed w toxic (whatever reason) family members. As the saying goes, we get to pick our friends, not our relatives.

Circling back to the case at hand, do we know the long term or recent dynamics of Chloe's family, nuclear & extended? Not trying to analyze details, just raising the question rhetorically.

Thank you, and if I remember correctly poster Safeguard wished me luck with my family situation, thank you both! My siblings betrayed me for different reasons so I cut their families of my life and concentrate on my mom's care (I'm her sole caregiver) and happiness, she is so wonderful and sweet. I would NEVER trust my brother (a senior citizen this year) to take care of Mom for five
minutes if I were speaking to him! I can't understand why KW wouldn't keep CW in her care the first hours in a new environment with all the dangers a non-child proof cruise ship presents with pools, staircases, open railings, intoxicated passengers, possible seasickness for CW, etc.
Getting to your question about family dynamics in this case, I read a few posts on other sites stating that KW never liked SA and is only defending him to get a settlement from RCCL, but I don't know if those posts are legit.

 

[lonetraveler]

I am still seeing the anomaly at around the 10:10 mark. A black rectangular shape, consistent with what could be SA's right arm flicking something out the window.

Just wanted to point out that at the 16.27 time of the video, he is videoed leaning outside of the window. THIS, IMO is the very reason, he should jump at the chance to accept the plea deal. Color blindness is done at this time.

 

[Chikkamma]

I am still seeing the anomaly at around the 10:10 mark. A black rectangular shape, consistent with what could be SA's right arm flicking something out the window.

I sent you the link because it’s a better and longer video, not to disprove you! But glad you were able to see that moment. I noticed it as well.