IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[MsBetsy]

I don't recall seeing that. So does he climb up on a chair, since it's allegedly impossible to just look out the window?

I think he described it in the last interview. He said he watched her fall all the way down.
Also I think there was a witness who said he dropped to the floor right after she fell. Or maybe he said that himself.
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly and he just said he first looked on the floor but either way apparently he looked there first before looking out the window and seeing her fall all the way down.

Maybe, if he was actually on the floor, he could see her fall through the lower window? Idk
It's hard to visualize without a picture of where he was and knowing his line of vision.

 

[they'll get you]

Agreed. The moment he flung, yes flung her, over that railing all bets were off. No reasonable person would do that. Not only did he fling her over the railing into the ledge, as so as she went into the window frame he pulls his right arm in so obviously he lifts her over the railing and then has her by one arm. He admitted to that. That’s beyond insane IMO. Did she hit the awning that was on the other side of the pier? If that is in fact true, which might not be, She didn’t just drop straight down. She went way out and then down. Just awful.

It’s true what you say as I’ve been wondering why Chloe landed so far away from the ship.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes! Also, if you look at the bottom of the glass, you can see how it goes to the floor. She could of walked right up and looked out to see everything. No need to lift her. Also, look at the guys arm at the end of the video easily breaching the plane of where the glass would of been. SA could of easily lifted her out IMO

Absolutely.

 

[justice4allnow]

I believe that we have some lawyers here...would one of you please enlighten me as to whether RCCL is able to request Anello's medical records? In terms of meds and pre-existing conditions.

 

[Chikkamma]

Agreed. The moment he flung, yes flung her, over that railing all bets were off. No reasonable person would do that. Not only did he fling her over the railing into the ledge, as so as she went into the window frame he pulls his right arm in so obviously he lifts her over the railing and then has her by one arm. He admitted to that. That’s beyond insane IMO. Did she hit the awning that was on the other side of the pier? If that is in fact true, which might not be, She didn’t just drop straight down. She went way out and then down. Just awful.

I never realized this until you pointed it out. The moment in the side view video when we see him pull his right elbow back into our view (after it being completely out of our view) is the time when SA has Chloe standing on the window ledge and lets go of her with his right arm.

I guess this is why even Winkleman couldn’t deny that Chloe was at some point standing on the window ledge.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

We all assume he stood Chloe in the window from because MW’s recreation has the SA stand-in holding the Chloe doll in the window frame.

I watched the video and came to this conclusion before the re-enactment. This is what I concluded from watching the video from the “behind” view...Chloe leaves the area where the grandfather is squatting followed by SA. He bends over looking down/out the window while Chloe is beneath him. He squats down beside Chloe for a few seconds the lifts her up and over the railing. He then sits her on the railing to his right (you can see her white hat) and looks down/out the window. Then he picks her up and puts her in front of him...to whereas she is standing on the ledge. Then he put her out further beyond the ledge and a a few seconds she is gone. From the side view, you see SA lean over the railing. You then see him squat down beside Chloe. You then see him pick her up and hoist her over the railing and look down. You can see that Chloe is beside him on his right because you can see her white hat. Then you see him shift positions and move Chloe in front of him. After that you can’t really see Chloe...only SA who does a lot of rocking back and forth motions. Then SA falls backwards and you know she is gone.

What I find interesting from the side view is that if you focus on the 3rd white section (pole/partition) and not the SA, you can see some glimpses of a shadow/figure during/after the time SA shifts Chloe in front of him. I don’t know whether this shadow/figure is Chloe because I don’t have the ability to go frame by frame, still shot, or enlargement on my computer. But if it can be done, I think the results would be interesting. If in fact it is determined that the shadow/figure is in fact Chloe, it would show she was in fact held beyond the window ledge and out the window before she “fell.”

Of course, these are just my observations and my opinions.

 

[LietKynes]

Do not remember this witness ever being mentioned but if this is correct then its game over , SA .

Agreed.
The lawsuit should be thrown out then as well.
The Wiegand's never had a right to sue in the first place.
RCCL would be within their rights to counter sue for defamation.

 

[TDoc72]

On July 9 2019 AP reported this from Puerto Rico:
"Police said Monday that Chloe Wiegand died when the young girl's grandfather told officers he lost his grip while holding her outside a window on the Freedom of the Seas. He was identified as Salvatorre Anello, of Valparaiso. In an interview on NBC's TODAY, the family attorney, Michael Winkleman, said the grandfather rather placed Chloe on a ledge and had no idea it was open."
So I do believe that "ledge" was the window ledge.

So if he has her standing on the window ledge, where exactly does he think the glass was? I mean, the glass has to be connected to something.

 

[they'll get you]

I wonder who scrubbed the info off the Internet? View attachment 227901

In Aust we see lots MSM stuff scrubbed before a upcoming trial and many sleuthers copy and screenshot early articles. GOLD in hindsight.

 

[katydid23]

It has not been shown that he reached his hand out the window, and he denies doing that.

How did he determine that he couldn't reach the glass, if he didn't even try?

I thought he said:
'Oh my god ... All I know is I was trying to reach the glass and I know that we leaned over to try to have her reach the glass, at that point she slipped."

How could he try and reach the glass if he wasn't reaching out the window?

Video Suggests Cruise Ship Grandpa Knew Window Was Open

 

[LietKynes]

Wondering where everyone else was? I figured they would all be together doing family stuff. Did another family member come and tell the mom there was a sudden matter she needed to take care of?
Perhaps a steward spoke to her?
And only 15 minutes after she left!!
It’s just horrifying.

bbm
The first story put out by the lawyer was that the entire family was at a buffet.
Which begs the question why wouldn't Chloe and step-grandpa be eating as well ?
Later the story was changed to 'the mother had to attend to a cruise matter'. What was so important that she left Chloe with a person who was clearly incapable of watching anyone ?

Seems very choreographed.
Strange and sad for a little toddler who never had the full life she deserved.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am explaining this poorly. But yet I persist - good for me!

You don’t have to lean out the window to see down. Each row of glass slants out a bit from the ship.

So looking down you see your feet, and the entire side of the ship to the ground or sea through the bottom row of glass. Because it is not perpendicular - it slants out.

I understand what you mean, you explained it very well.
I wasn't clear in my post and it's too late to edit now, but what I was wondering is when he originally looked over the railing before he lifted her over, is it possible that he was actually looking down between the railing and the window and not all the way out the window?
I know he appears to be leaning forward and looking out the actual window but it's hard to tell from the video. A camera angled on the side of the ship on the outside would show it better but we haven't seen that. Imo

 

[justice4allnow]

I do not believe that he was being truthful when he said the he thought that there was glass. But let's say that he was truthful and there had been glass there-what was his plan? To mush her little body up against the pane? Looking at Winkleman's doll on the window ledge, would that ledge of a closed window even be wide enough for Chloe's feet? And how could she have banged on the glass, standing there closely pressed up against the pane? None of this makes sense, it's illogical. I simply cannot make sense of any of his actions.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

American toddler dies after fall from Royal Caribbean cruise ship - CNN

Here is the reference to grandpa losing his balance----

"The grandfather sat the girl in the window and lost his balance, and the girl
fell to her death".

I wonder if this could be a translation issue "lost his grip" vs "lost his balance."

Or another inconsistency.

 

[katydid23]

Can someone please respond with the following:
1). What is the height from the floor to the railing?

2) What is the distance from the railing to the window sill?

3) Is there a ledge at the bottom, below the railing, for an adult to tip-toe on?

4) How tall is SA? How tall was Chloe?

After watching both videos, I’m convinced that SA hoisted Chloe up to the rail. I’m not convinced that she was placed anywhere other than the railing.

The sideways video has pillars in the way, which make it look like SA was hoisting her to the window sill, but I don’t think that is true due to the pillars being in the way of the camera.

I’ve re-enacted this in my house and am convinced that she was hoisted up to the railing. But being top-heavy, as all toddlers are, she squirmed and leaned forward and thus tumbled out.

But without the measurement between the railing and window, as well as SA and her heights, it’s difficult to determine if she could tumble out.

The defense team did a reenactment of the incident. They placed the doll , standing up on the window sill.

Would they have done that in the reenactment video if he never did that to the baby? I don't think so.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

It’s true what you say as I’ve been wondering why Chloe landed so far away from the ship.

Good point.

 

[justice4allnow]

In this YouTube video at around the 6.10 mark, Winkleman says that Sam stands Chloe up there and then lets go for a second and she's gone. Yeah, lets go. Sorry I can't upload it but here's the link :

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, but bending from the neck and shoulders will not put your upper body out and through the window.

OK let me explain because I’ve actually done it and witnessed it.
Bend from your waist, chest, shoulders and neck.




Now see this rotund lady for example. She stands relaxed at the rail. If she were to stand tall on the little 4-5” ledge and stretch upward and out her head would be outside that sill. I’ve done it.
Now hold your arms high above your head, there’s 2’ above your head to your hands, yes?

 

[Andreee]

That's interesting. So when he bends over the railing he could have been looking down without poking his head out the window. However, I can't get past how he reaches out. He very clearly reaches out with both arms as he approaches the window. It's a 0:28 in this video. The only possible thing he can be reaching for is the window frame and/or sill. There's nothing else there.

And it DOES look like he leans way over the railing, whether from below the belly or not!

 

[they'll get you]

It has not been shown that he reached his hand out the window, and he denies doing that.

I zoomed in when he first went to that window.

It clearly shows his head moved out beyond the window frame.