IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[Kayjaybe]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Winkleman included this as part of his documentation of warnings on the ship?

 

[ARE]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Winkleman included this as part of his documentation of warnings on the ship?

Yes I surely did.

 

[In vino veritas]

MW’s assertions about the physical impossibility of SA being able to extend beyond the window have really bothered me. SO.... I took out a measuring tape and did some investigating of my own. I’m 5ft.... or 60”. That’s 11” shorter than SA.
I have a dresser which is exactly 42” high. Leaning against it and bending forward as far as I could, my head went out 11””. When I stood on tiptoe, I was able to extend to about 14.5”. Granted, this is not the most scientific analysis, but it stands to reason someone 11” taller than I am would be able to extend further. Furthermore, the video does show SA fully extended from what looks to be his midsection. AND the video appears to show SA approach the window quite purposefully, with his arms extended, not folded under him as MW’s absurd reenactment implies.

 

[BeachSky]

Maybe SA was so drunk he saw double. An optical illusion of two railings, two windows? Two babies?
We don’t know what he was thinking or seeing but we do know how he was acting. That’s the only thing the rest of us care about.

We do. There is video.
Maybe he is used to breaking rules & living dangerously. JMO

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I am also happy to Venmo/PayPal money for ongoing costs whenever you need it.

 

[Fidobell]

Exactly... And, Ridiculous... the guy wasn’t even bending over to speak of. As we all noticed before, this so called re creation of the event is completely inaccurate and misleading.

SA bent over at close to if not a 90 degree angle and looked down. Their guy was like a mannequin, like he couldn’t move or bend down. Quite laughable, actually.. and a farce. This whole thing makes me sick.

Totally agree ', accurate reenactment ' it certainly was not . Original CCTV shows SA tucked into rail with his torso bent . And when holding Chloe doll reenactment guy's head can be seen meaning his body is rigid almost straight up and down . SA again is pressed against railing leaning over .
ABM , SA 's bum is not sticking out like reenactment guy either

 

[they'll get you]

Please tell us what RCCL did wrong in this case.

I'm not sure but it won't surprise me if they are held somehow responsible.

 

[Fidobell]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Winkleman included this as part of his documentation of warnings on
Yup , ironic !

 

[BeachSky]

Even If SA *is* colorblind, color is not the only clue that the window is open.

Based on the video, he leaned toward—if not out—of the window before placing Chloe on the rail/sill/wherever.

Those moments where he leaned forward should have been sufficient for him to gather other data about the status of the window... data other than the “green” he didn’t see.

furthermore, thinking about it... if you are color blind, green does not magically become clear, right? But brown? So there would theoretically still be a color difference there.

There were many still photos published of him collecting his luggage off the airport carousel .
I guess he wasn’t color blind that day.

MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

View attachment 227655
There were many still photos published of him collecting his luggage off the airport carousel .
I guess he wasn’t color blind that day.

MOO

 

[Kindred]

The puple line is mine but otherwise untouched.

This photo keeps bothering me. There's something... odd about the tape measure. Most of the numbers are illegible for me but the ones below his fingers are still dark and defined enough that you can make out enough to work out measurements. But once you get above his fingers the tape seems to squish and distort. Is he physically bending the tape back to make it look like they're the same height from the front??? Why does it suddenly seem to get narrow?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Apparently a woman next to him looked out at the scene and turned back in horror.

I feel certain that there were witnesses at the scene and that they have been interviewed by LE and could testify during a trial. There was, allegedly, someone who actually told SA not to do what he was doing - holding Chloe up to an open window 11 stories above the ground. I don't know if it was passengers or crew/staff members, but there were definitely witnesses to SA's actions. Hopefully, LE interviewed anyone who was at the location of the "accident" and that they reported to local authorities exactly what they saw and heard when SA hoisted Chloe up to the open window and lost his grip on her, causing her to plunge 11 stories to her death on the concrete pier.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

In the doctor's statement, he talks about the fact that the medical staff was in some sort of safety seminar or something when he got on the ship. Is that safety session for staff or passengers?

 

[Medstudies]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Winkleman included this as part of his documentation of warnings on the ship?

Kinda like

 

[Tutter]

I really can’t get past the picture of the guy holding the doll on the window ledge. Oh, and the obviously open windows visible in every picture. Guilty as charged!

what side is this guy on again?...

 

[Jewels53]

View attachment 227658

The puple line is mine but otherwise untouched.

This photo keeps bothering me. There's something... odd about the tape measure. Most of the numbers are illegible for me but the ones below his fingers are still dark and defined enough that you can make out enough to work out measurements. But once you get above his fingers the tape seems to squish and distort. Is he physically bending the tape back to make it look like they're the same height from the front??? Why does it suddenly seem to get narrow?

I think the tape measure is twisted. I also think this guy is built totally different then SA. This guys torso is longer and his legs seem shorter, at least to me. His belly is not as high up as SA so the bar would not hit him the same. imo

 

[oviedo]

I feel certain that there were witnesses at the scene and that they have been interviewed by LE and could testify during a trial. There was, allegedly, someone who actually told SA not to do what he was doing - holding Chloe up to an open window 11 stories above the ground. I don't know if it was passengers or crew/staff members, but there were definitely witnesses to SA's actions. Hopefully, LE interviewed anyone who was at the location of the "accident" and that they reported to local authorities exactly what they saw and heard when SA hoisted Chloe up to the open window and lost his grip on her, causing her to plunge 11 stories to her death on the concrete pier.

I think the witnesses will be a Perry mason moment in the trial - I can’t wait to see the notice of trial and witness list / thank heavens this is in a Florida court !!!
JMO
And get some rest before your flight !

 

[mheido67]

I find these two photos interesting. In the first what’s missing? The doll, that’s what. Because if it was there it would be clear that CW could have been standing at SA’s feet right up against the glass while he looked down at her. Safely on the floor.

The second photo I’m shocked that they included as it shows that SA literally put CW feet on the open window sill. Previously I had assumed only that he held her on the railing and she lurched forward. Now it appears he literally stood her on the window frame. And still, he somehow was oblivious to the lack of glass?

 

[JulieBEMT]

Somewhat tedious reading, but here is the passenger contract to which all ticketed passengers agree when they book a cruise with RCCL. The cruise ticket contract outlines the legal liability limits of the cruise line. I think it's safe to say that SA probably didn't read the passenger contract, and, if he did, he doesn't think that rules apply to him.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/resources/pdf/cruise-ticket-contract.pdf

OT: DH and I are packed and ready to leave tomorrow for our cruise onboard Sky Princess. I've been busy with last minute errands and packing but have kept up with the discussion. I will follow the thread while I'm away. Bon Voyage!

Enjoy the Sky! I was on her inaugural sailing on December 4th. My understanding is that there have been some propulsion issues with her in the last couple of weeks. Hoping that's all fixed, and that you get to all of your ports. Just FYOI - of the two pools on the main deck, one is very cold while the other is nicely heated.

 

[katydid23]

Exactly. She could walk right under the railing and up to the glass to bang on it if she wanted to. If that was the “reason” for picking her up, it is clearly false.

Also, from the first PDF: (1)the window did not have a “single, adequate indication” (such as a decal or a warning) to indicate it was open;

If there was a decal or warning on the window, he wouldn’t have seen it because the window wasn’t there! It was open! So even if there was a warning on the actual window, the opening wouldn’t have a warning. You can’t put a warning on air/open space.

Could you imagine sitting in that lounge, looking at the 'wall of windows' , hoping to see the gorgeous view of the open sea. And you'd also have to look at 112 red WARNING stickers, one stuck on every closed window? Talk about Buzz Kill.