IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[mheido67]

I sincerely doubt RCCL is going to settle with this family. If that was their inclination, a settlement would have been arranged very early on, shortly after the incident. Given the extremely sensitive nature of this case, one involving the death of a child, the fact RCCL did not settle and remained silent during this whole media onslaught by MW , leads me to believe they have a very strong case proving the culpability of SA. I’ve got to believe there is additional, conclusive evidence to support RCCL.

It’s interesting that any video from the bridge wing camera has not made an appearance as of yet. The ships definitely have video surveillance down the sides of the ship from these cameras and others further toward the stern I have to believe. One would think there would be video of CW falling from the window. But none has been produced as of yet so far as I can tell. Perhaps exterior coverage is not as complete as I previously assumed.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

I am very curious as to why SA keeps being portrayed in the media as an "elderly grandfather" if he is in fact only 51 years old, and that's not a typo and he's really 61 (still not old). 51 is NOT OLD. I think there may be something medically wrong with him that he does not look or act 51 years old, or perhaps just alcoholism or some other hard living that has aged him. But it is curious to me why the media is not challenging this narrative. Part of me suspects RCCL is being quiet and letting all this continue b/c they are doing a good job sabotaging their own case OR RCCL has some slam dunk they are holding back until they have no choice but to present it. I also suspect they are getting SA's medical records as part of the discovery process and I wouldn't be surprised if they are not helpful to his case. If he had a drink on the ship they already know it by now. If he didn't drink any alcohol on the ship, maybe he's on some sort of medication that dulls his senses or slows his reaction time, but his actions were completely reckless to the point where you ask "is this guy insane"? He might be.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

It’s interesting that any video from the bridge wing camera has not made an appearance as of yet. The ships definitely have video surveillance down the sides of the ship from these cameras and others further toward the stern I have to believe. One would think there would be video of CW falling from the window. But none has been produced as of yet so far as I can tell. Perhaps exterior coverage is not as complete as I previously assumed.

They have video coverage of this entire family from the moment they got on the ship, from multiple angles. It's just the nature of the cruise ship there are cameras everywhere. They released 2 videos, there may be more. They already know who had an alcoholic drink because you can't use cash on the ship you have to charge it to your room. They also have eyewitnesses to the event. My instinct is RCCL is deliberately laying low because they have a very good defense. Also keep in mind if they are found liable this will have huge repercussions for every single cruise ship, hotels, amusement parks, you name it. They can't settle this case because it will open the flood gates for future payouts for every act of human stupidity. As someone else pointed out, there are balconies off the ship cabins, but no one's child has fallen off of one of them. Why? Because parents are watching an 18-month old like a hawk and making sure, not lifting them up over the rail, and balancing them with one hand.

 

[kay74]

Someone posted on a news outlet that the window was closed and popped open. Is this true? If so, that would rectify what the family said is the cruiseline's fault.

 

[wackyw]

Someone posted on a news outlet that the window was closed and popped open. Is this true? If so, that would rectify what the family said is the cruiseline's fault.

I think the video from behind shows very clearly it was open before SA approached it. And I think it shows that it wasn't the only open window in his line of sight. That video seems not to have flooded the interweb quite as much as the side view, but it's equally damning.

MOO

 

[IceIce9]

Someone posted on a news outlet that the window was closed and popped open. Is this true? If so, that would rectify what the family said is the cruiseline's fault.

A child could not reach the window anyway, unless held up and out the window by someone much taller.

 

[JulieBEMT]

Having sat in these chairs thousands of times, I did not notice them to be any higher than "normal chairs." As someone who's had multiple knee and back surgeries, I would certainly have noticed if they were a full six inches higher than the industry standard, ADA compliance height of 19 inches! They are really grasping at straws now.

 

[Fidobell]

Someone posted on a news outlet that the window was closed and popped open. Is this true? If so, that would rectify what the family said is the cruiseline's fault.

NO NO NO this is not true . The toddlers grandfather lifted her onto a safety rail and beyond , using one arm at a point , and after 34 secs lost his grip and the child plunged through a clearly open window . News outlets want a sensational story it seems . GF reckless behaviour caused this not CC . IMOO

 

[mheido67]

They have video coverage of this entire family from the moment they got on the ship, from multiple angles. It's just the nature of the cruise ship there are cameras everywhere. They released 2 videos, there may be more. They already know who had an alcoholic drink because you can't use cash on the ship you have to charge it to your room. They also have eyewitnesses to the event. My instinct is RCCL is deliberately laying low because they have a very good defense. Also keep in mind if they are found liable this will have huge repercussions for every single cruise ship, hotels, amusement parks, you name it. They can't settle this case because it will open the flood gates for future payouts for every act of human stupidity. As someone else pointed out, there are balconies off the ship cabins, but no one's child has fallen off of one of them. Why? Because parents are watching an 18-month old like a hawk and making sure, not lifting them up over the rail, and balancing them with one hand.

Should have been clearer. In their email responses to Plaintiffs lawyers RCCL stated that none of the video from the other cameras identified by MW showed the events of the incident and that they did not intend to use any additional video footage in their defense. They also turned over the additional footage requested even though it did not show anything relevant. I take that to mean there is no outboard camera footage.

The difference between a balcony and the deck 11 situation, from MW perspective is that on a balcony it is clear that there is not an entire wall of glass. They maintain that the deck 11 set up created the impression that there was a complete wall of glass so there would not be the same assumption of danger as if one was on a typical balcony with a child. And that the opening constituted a hidden danger because there was no warning that there could be openings in what appeared to be a solid wall of glass. That’s their argument anyway.

I’ve sailed on numerous cruises, FotS included. When my youngest daughter was 2 we kept her on a tether, yes, a leash, when she was out of the room. We never got a balcony room with the children and if they were in the pool/play areas my wife or I were with them at all times. I’m constantly amazed at the number of people who allow their kids to swim unsupervised. And we never lifted them on or over a railing. And they both survived!

 

[mheido67]

Should have been clearer. In their email responses to Plaintiffs lawyers RCCL stated that none of the video from the other cameras identified by MW showed the events of the incident and that they did not intend to use any additional video footage in their defense. They also turned over the additional footage requested even though it did not show anything relevant. I take that to mean there is no outboard camera footage.

The difference between a balcony and the deck 11 situation, from MW perspective is that on a balcony it is clear that there is not an entire wall of glass. They maintain that the deck 11 set up created the impression that there was a complete wall of glass so there would not be the same assumption of danger as if one was on a typical balcony with a child. And that the opening constituted a hidden danger because there was no warning that there could be openings in what appeared to be a solid wall of glass. That’s their argument anyway.

I’ve sailed on numerous cruises, FotS included. When my youngest daughter was 2 we kept her on a tether, yes, a leash, when she was out of the room. We never got a balcony room with the children and if they were in the pool/play areas my wife or I were with them at all times. I’m constantly amazed at the number of people who allow their kids to swim unsupervised. And we never lifted them on or over a railing. And they both survived!

Also, I have to add, I’m beyond thrilled that my kids are responsible teens and twenty somethings now and I no longer need to swim in the questionable kids pool water. It’s the solarium first us now!

 

[IceIce9]

NO NO NO this is not true . The toddlers grandfather lifted her onto a safety rail and beyond , using one arm at a point , and after 34 secs lost his grip and the child plunged through a clearly open window . News outlets want a sensational story it seems . GF reckless behaviour caused this not CC . IMOO

Fake news is being discussed all over in this case. All to disguise the fact that this sweet child’s grandfather held her outside the window and dropped her.

 

[Kayjaybe]

I don’t even know where they are going with the “elderly” angle, although I think that is press more than the lawyers.

If he was so elderly, he shouldn’t have been watching a toddler.

And, if he was so elderly, he couldn’t have lifted Chloe up to the height of his head and over that railing.

And regarding the banging on the glass - if he put her to sit or stand on the railing, and if the window were closed, that is a long way for a toddler to reach the glass as the window slopes away. She would have likely cracked her head on the windowsill and fallen inside the ship.

If he put her on the windowsill as most of us suspect, he had to have seen there was no glass. If there were glass, she would have been right up against it and he could easily see her touching it and not being able to go further.

I wonder if the criminal case will be televised...

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Someone posted on a news outlet that the window was closed and popped open. Is this true? If so, that would rectify what the family said is the cruiseline's fault.

Link?

 

[neesaki]

The whole thing is so damn sensationalistic. They know it’s going to generate clicks, as it’s such a tragic story. Hence the “Angelic Chloe,” reference.

Who the hell writes like that?

And a “harrowing on board reconstruction”. Ought to be “harrowingly fake onboard reconstruction ”. SMH

 

[KR72]

Actually, of you look at close ups of SA, you can see he doesn't look that old. It's his grey hair, bad teeth and weight that age him. His skin isn't as lined or wrinkled as an older mans would be.

 

[Andreee]

Did you see how he measures how tall a chair is? He puts the measuring tape in front of it. Not at the back where you can put the measurement at the actual top of the chair.

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See! It's totally 32 inches! And then there's... whatever this is:

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Again, instead of putting it flush to the metal to see how high it goes, or turning the chair sideways and doing it that way he does... whatever this is, just letting the tape measure kinda flop wherever by his foot and not letting you see exactly what point on the chair he's actually measuring. There's a lot of questionable measuring techniques shown. Like this one:

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I don't even know what this is trying to show. Are they going to try and claim the bolted table is only 18 1/4 inches away from the window? And yet:

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Clearly further than 18 1/4 inches because it's much further than the rail that is 18 inches from the windows so ???

And then there's the random image of them measuring a sticker on the windo... wait there's already stickers on the windows??

View attachment 227713

 

[Andreee]

If this wasn't all so tragic, I would be lol'ing at the awkward configuration of his arms and hands while measuring at the window! His arms and hands are totally able to reach out the window from the railing, and he is trying to make it look that they aren't!

 

[wackyw]

If this wasn't all so tragic, I would be lol'ing at the awkward configuration of his arms and hands while measuring at the window! His arms and hands are totally able to reach out the window from the railing, and he is trying to make it look that they aren't!

I wouldn't be buying a made to measure suit from him that's for sure.

 

[justbreathe]

It

In my opinion, it doesn't matter how wide the window opens. Because the only way a child gets out that high up window, is if an adult helps them.

If a child wants to jump off the ship by themselves, they can do so off any balcony.

As RCL so rightly said, and I paraphrase: Any person can fall through any open window. It is a purposeful opening in a structure to allow in light and air.

 

[oviedo]

Having sat in these chairs thousands of times, I did not notice them to be any higher than "normal chairs." As someone who's had multiple knee and back surgeries, I would certainly have noticed if they were a full six inches higher than the industry standard, ADA compliance height of 19 inches! They are really grasping at straws now.

View attachment 227740
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In December on my RCCl cruise I seem to recall they have added bar height tables and chairs sprinkled throughout the ship - that would account for higher chairs IMO
FWIW I think their whole recreation is amateurish and it’s clear to me the firm isn't spending resources because they likely know their only hope is a settlement- otherwise they cannot be serious about this right?
JMO