IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[SaguaroSpirit]

I think that mom, dad and family are unable to accept the reality that gramps was an idiot and behaved so atrociously, dangled, heaved their darling baby out an open window. The truth is too painful and would rock their world back home. They have blinders on.

I respect your opinion, but I fear their attitude about the tragedy goes far deeper than that. JMOO

 

[Hughaskton]

The doctor who responded to the scene said he saw no other people around when he arrived on the dock. Of course he was focused on the deceased child and probably tuned out distractions.

I mean, they certainly would have cleared the area after she fell. The doctor was not there within seconds, no way could he be. So it’s not odd no one was in the immediate area when he arrived.

 

[Montrealaise]

Exactly. He’s younger than Brad Pitt.

Agree - Chloe's step-grandfather sounds better than "her grandma's boyfriend' if you are trying to get sympathy for him.

 

[mheido67]

I mean, they certainly would have cleared the area after she fell. The doctor was not there within seconds, no way could he be. So it’s not odd no one was in the immediate area when he arrived.

I believe he was in the infirmary when he was told there was an emergency on the pier. The infirmary is on deck 1 which is also where the gangway would be so he could have gotten there within minutes. Of course there would have been security on the pier while boarding was taking place so they would have cleared people from the area. With a set sail time of 8pm they would most certainly have still been boarding passengers at 4pm I'd think.

 

[Hughaskton]

I believe he was in the infirmary when he was told there was an emergency on the pier. The infirmary is on deck 1 which is also where the gangway would be so he could have gotten there within minutes. Of course there would have been security on the pier while boarding was taking place so they would have cleared people from the area. With a set sail time of 8pm they would most certainly have still been boarding passengers at 4pm I'd think.

Agree. There were people around, I’m sure of that. Whether people were paying attention to what was happening 11 stories up, probably not. Hearing the commotion would bring people’s attention to the situation, so they may not be good witnesses to the factual events prior to her falling. I just think they likely cleared the area rather quickly and by the time he was notified and got there, people had cleared the area. I’m just saying, just because he didn’t see people when he got there doesn’t mean people were not around at the time of the incident.

 

[mheido67]

Agree. There were people around, I’m sure of that. Whether people were paying attention to what was happening 11 stories up, probably not. Hearing the commotion would bring people’s attention to the situation, so they may not be good witnesses to the factual events prior to her falling. I just think they likely cleared the area rather quickly and by the time he was notified and got there, people had cleared the area. I’m just saying, just because he didn’t see people when he got there doesn’t mean people were not around at the time of the incident.

Yes, not many people would have been paying close attention to anything going on that high up on the ship. I'd go even farther and say that from the distance from pier to deck 11 most people would not really have been able to tell whether CW was actually outside the window opening before she fell. If there are going to be really valuable witnesses I'd say they were on deck 11 in the immediate area or behind the bar at Squeeze making drinks.

 

[justice4allnow]

I respect your opinion, but I fear their attitude about the tragedy goes far deeper than that. JMOO

I agree, SaguaroSpirit, this is upsetting because it appears deliberate on the part of several family members. And btw your new avatar is beautiful.

 

[loveandhugs]

When I think of the lawyer saying little Chloe enjoyed banging on the glass of her brother's hockey games, and that is why SA picked her up, so she could do that. Chloe was probably banging on the glass to get her brother's attention in the picture. Are there other pictures showing Chloe banging on glass? The window on the ship would only look at a dock and the sky, not something that would be of interest to a little one. Good lawsuit though, Chloe wanted to bang on the glass, SA thought the window was there, RCCL is at fault. Wouldn't any adult tell a toddler "no you can not do that, you could get hurt", if Chloe actually said she wanted to bang on the higher window, which I doubt she did. If any of your small children or grandchildren asked you to do something that you knew wasn't safe, you would say "no". If they began to have a tantrum, you would try to find something else for them to do, they have small attention spans.

Sometimes my mind goes to little Chloe, the fear she felt as she fell, even though it was over fast, I am sure she was so scared at that moment. I had four children, and even as toddlers they would have fear if they thought something may hurt them, they would hold on so tight to me where I couldn't get their arms off my neck.

I feel many of us here are feeling so much anger because of no one taking responsibility, little Chloe deserves that. It is as though no one in the family is thinking of her last moments on this earth and getting angry at the person who did this. We see children murdered by their parents all too often on the news, so it is not unreasonable to want to get the facts and find out what happened to Chloe, and hope and pray that no other family decides that their child is worth more to them in death, that is not justice. If a window was broken on the deck where little Chloe was standing, and she fell, yes that would be the cruise lines fault, but if this was my daughter I would want to see SA go to jail for his total disregard of my daughter's life. What is this family hiding? JMO

 

[justbreathe]

I think part of the problem is that early reporting in cases like this proves to be inaccurate. Someone speaks to someone with second hand information, the details aren't clear, they heard something in passing that they assumed was from a good source, etc. I'd imagine many of the early online stories get edited or removed as information gets called into question. Look at the Kobe Bryant reporting. First it was 5 people, someone reported all his kids were onboard, then it turns out there were 9 people and only one of his kids onboard. I even heard speculation that Kobe might have been the pilot very early on.

But still some of the earliest reports have proved to be accurate, so we will see...

 

[justbreathe]

I mean, they certainly would have cleared the area after she fell. The doctor was not there within seconds, no way could he be. So it’s not odd no one was in the immediate area when he arrived.

Who would have cleared the area? And where are those people?

If people were around, I’m not sure if blind instinct would have them running away or towards poor little Chloe...?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I agree, SaguaroSpirit, this is upsetting because it appears deliberate on the part of several family members. And btw your new avatar is beautiful.

Thanks, it's the Arizona State flag.

 

[mheido67]

Who would have cleared the area? And where are those people?

If people were around, I’m not sure if blind instinct would have them running away or towards poor little Chloe...?

It was an active pier with boarding taking place. The pier would have been secured by security personnel. Someone notified the ships doctor so presumably people heard her hit the pier (a sickening sound if you've ever heard a body hitting something like that), saw the body and started to move people away from the scene. I don't know if passengers enter the ship at pier level on that pier having never embarked/disembarked there but I imagine they would cross over from the terminal building on an elevated gangway. So any people on the pier would have been security or workers loading luggage and stores onto the ship.

 

[Hughaskton]

Who would have cleared the area? And where are those people?

If people were around, I’m not sure if blind instinct would have them running away or towards poor little Chloe...?

Security.. Someone notified the doctor of the incident, so they would immediately be securing the scene.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This should have been Chloe: Texas toddler reacts to first snow by busting out 'Let It Go' - CNN Video

 

[they'll get you]

Who would have cleared the area? And where are those people?

If people were around, I’m not sure if blind instinct would have them running away or towards poor little Chloe...?

The cctv shows most people simply walking away from the situation and only one or two rushing to the window to look down.
The people who walked away knew what the scene would be and didn’t want to see it.

On the dock would have the same effect of turning away.
Iirc it was the doctor who called for a sheet.

 

[JulieBEMT]

I believe he was in the infirmary when he was told there was an emergency on the pier. The infirmary is on deck 1 which is also where the gangway would be so he could have gotten there within minutes. Of course there would have been security on the pier while boarding was taking place so they would have cleared people from the area. With a set sail time of 8pm they would most certainly have still been boarding passengers at 4pm I'd think.

It's been a while since I've sailed from San Juan, but I believe that embarkation takes place on deck 4 or 5 as it does in other locations.

Who would have cleared the area? And where are those people?

If people were around, I’m not sure if blind instinct would have them running away or towards poor little Chloe...?

Having been an EMT for 17 years, based on what was in the doctor's report, my guess is that people would be running away.

It was an active pier with boarding taking place. The pier would have been secured by security personnel. Someone notified the ships doctor so presumably people heard her hit the pier (a sickening sound if you've ever heard a body hitting something like that), saw the body and started to move people away from the scene. I don't know if passengers enter the ship at pier level on that pier having never embarked/disembarked there but I imagine they would cross over from the terminal building on an elevated gangway. So any people on the pier would have been security or workers loading luggage and stores onto the ship.

They do not embark at pier level, but on deck 4 or 5. As you said, the only people on the pier should have been workers.

 

[Montrealaise]

My thoughts on that were conflicted, at first. As this has progressed, my hackles are up and I’m not as conflicted. I could see how they, acting in an LE or lawyer capacity would tell him no. I kind of get that, I’m in LE, so I see why they would. But, for the life of me, I can’t figure out why they are protecting the man that killed their daughter. For the record if my child died at the hands of a man who put her in grave danger and it resulted in her death, I would not be defending them all over the media.

This is my rub though. If I trusted someone in my family and this happened, you bet your butt I would be demanding a test. Not because I thought they were guilty, but to prove he was a trusted and safe human to watch my child. That I would not leave my child in the hands of someone who was impaired or incapable of watching my child and making solid safe decisions. So that’s the question. Did these people knowingly leave their child with someone that is dangerous. I think we have established he is dangerous, but was their purpose for advising him to deny any testing because they actually know he could have been impaired? Is this their way to avoid reality or face their own possible negligence? Hmm

KW's statement at one of their press conferences has always bothered me: "Sam would never, ever put our kids in danger". Um, he did put your daughter in danger, as evidenced by the fact that she's dead. Since KW seems to do almost all of the talking at their press conferences and interviews, I'm assuming she's running the show, but I don't understand why AW is going along with the "SA is innocent of any wrong-doing" narrative. Since he's in LE, like you, surely he must realize, from a professional standpoint, that what SA did was incredibly reckless and dangerous.

 

[katydid23]

Well, the mother claims there are "a million" things the cruise line could do to make the cruise ships "safer" like having fans instead of open windows. Lol. Seriously?? I can imagine at least a dozen reasons why that's a stupid idea. Oh and one of the grandmothers said she couldn't understand why the windows didnt have screens on them. Lol.

I wonder how these people manage to survive a day without the world protecting them from their own stupidity.

<sarcasm alert> maybe i should sue the envelope manufacturer for the paper cut i got on my tongue last week. UGH

That 'screens' suggestion is ridiculous. Window screens don't 'save' falling children. Screens will come right off if someone falls against them.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

That 'screens' suggestion is ridiculous. Window screens don't 'save' falling children. Screens will come right off if someone falls against them.

Passengers who are in party mode and drinking too much would likely remove the screens and toss them overboard. Not to mention that screens would require continuous replacement because they would deteriorate quickly from salt and water.

 

[Only4Justice]

Thanks, it's the Arizona State flag.

O/T but Arizona is my favorite place