IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[neesaki]

And look at how close his face is to the open window. How could he not know?

This is also a very damning picture if you imagine that poor baby standing right there on that tiny ledge. Look at this picture, and imagine propping up an 18 month old child, right there...

It's also obvious that if he bent over his head would go out the window, especially if he put his arms through first and pulled himself forward with his hands like SA did. SMH

 

[neesaki]

He keeps saying he thought 'there was glass.' But why did he think there was glass? Did he check to make sure?

He said he thought it was a 'wall of glass.' Why would he think that if he was severely colourblind? Why would he assume it was a wall of glass if he knew he couldn't see tinted glass?

A wall of glass with one hole in it just for him to put his head through. Oh, that's right, there was glass there too! So I guess his head magically went straight through the glass then. What a fete!
Attorney lies, he lies, all lies. Not sure I've ever seen such a pack of lies.

 

[justice4allnow]

Obviously even if he could not see the glass, he could see the sides of the window frame and would know immediately if his hand-OR HIS CHILD-was extending beyond the frame!

 

[Andreee]

It has never happened to anyone else.

It's hard to comprehend that th

Alleged Damages? $ Damages Sought?
@MsBetsy sbm bbm Complaint* specifies nature of alleged damages (virtually boilerplate),while the dollar amt of alleged damages sought is unspecified. AFAIK, Winkleman has not mentioned any $ amt. in interviews.

Did I miss para. w Plaintiffs demanding Repair Ship, So This Never Happens to Another Child? <sarc>
Or is that just part of The Script --- mom and atty making altruistic sounding plea to MSM
but no connection w pleadings in court? Sorry, not sorry, if my cynicism offends.

------------------------------------------------------
* Complaint, Page 21, Paragraph 52"... b. Decedent’s estate lost earnings of the Decedent and lost the benefit of the prospective net accumulations, which might reasonably have been expected but for the Decedent’s death.
"c. The beneficiaries/survivors of the Decedent incurred funeral expenses, suffered loss of
financial support, loss of services, lost past and future wages, future loss of support and
services, loss of inheritance, sustained mental pain and suffering and loss of the
Decedent’s companionship and protection, and suffered moral damages.
"WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs demand judgment against Defendant for al

And look at how close his face is to the open window. How could he not know?

This is also a very damning picture if you imagine that poor baby standing right there on that tiny ledge. Look at this picture, and imagine propping up an 18 month old child, right there...

 

[Pammi]

Photos Pammi, photos please?!

Here you go, I am 5’4 wearing flats not on my toes, and my fingers passed thru the window frame no problem and I wasn’t reaching hard.

I’m a visual person so once I stood there I had the aha moment, no way you didn’t know sir....

 

[Andreee]

DBM error

 

[justice4allnow]

Here you go, I am 5’4 wearing flats not on my toes, and my fingers passed thru the window frame no problem and I wasn’t reaching hard.

Thank you, Pammi, how much more clear can we get!

 

[Andreee]

So is this

Here you go, I am 5’4 wearing flats not on my toes, and my fingers passed thru the window frame no problem and I wasn’t reaching hard.

I’m a visual person so once I stood there I had the aha moment, no way you didn’t know sir....

the same ship where the tragedy occurred that you were on (before or after it) or an identical one that you were on? And any photos of your comparison or ? Sorry if I asked this before but I forget with all the twists and turns

 

[Pammi]

Here’s the window

Here you go, I am 5’4 wearing flats not on my toes, and my fingers passed thru the window frame no problem and I wasn’t reaching hard.

I’m a visual person so once I stood there I had the aha moment, no way you didn’t know sir....

here’s the window from the frame to back of guard rail...

in typical Pammi fashion forgot the tape measure so used my phone... I did previously check my arm finger tip to elbow length is 18” arm fits in that space pretty accurately....

Today a father walked up to this same open window with his daughter, like 3 yo , he was holding her tight but she shook her head no like crazy and buried her head in his shoulder when he said “do you want to look down and see if we can see the people down on the dock getting on the boat“?.

Now helicopter mom here was going to have to be a pain in the rear cause if he did it I was going to stop him (nicely)....

Seeing a couple kids here reaction maybe chloe was scared when he picked her up and she was trying to get away? Hmmm just a thought...

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you, Pammi, how much more clear can we get!

Wow, if the jury is going to view pictures like that they will have no problem finding him negligent.
No visit to the ship necessary!

Imo

 

[Pammi]

So is this

the same ship where the tragedy occurred that you were on (before or after it) or an identical one that you were on? And any photos of your comparison or ? Sorry if I asked this before but I forget with all the twists and turns

I’m on a vision class ship they were on a freedom class but in speaking with one of the ships officers here who has worked both ships he says the pool deck design is the same on both, in terms of the window and rails surrounding the pool- the 2 ships have different looking pools & bar areas on that deck...
I also noticed the lower windows (most if not all) are so marked with dirt and sea salt that you can’t see much of anything, which may be part of why he picked her up. He couldn’t see out from below... likely...

 

[mheido67]

Here’s the window


here’s the window from the frame to back of guard rail...

in typical Pammi fashion forgot the tape measure so used my phone... I did previously check my arm finger tip to elbow length is 18” arm fits in that space pretty accurately....

Today a father walked up to this same open window with his daughter, like 3 yo , he was holding her tight but she shook her head no like crazy and buried her head in his shoulder when he said “do you want to look down and see if we can see the people down on the dock getting on the boat“?.

Now helicopter mom here was going to have to be a pain in the rear cause if he did it I was going to stop him (nicely)....

Seeing a couple kids here reaction maybe chloe was scared when he picked her up and she was trying to get away? Hmmm just a thought...

Unfortunately not the same windows. The middle section of windows on Freedom of the Seas continues angling out away from the ship. On your ship (Vision of the Seas?) the middle section of windows is angling back toward the ship. Not apples to apples.

 

[Andreee]

I’m on a vision class ship they were on a freedom class but in speaking with one of the ships officers here who has worked both ships he says the pool deck design is the same on both, in terms of the window and rails surrounding the pool- the 2 ships have different looking pools & bar areas on that deck...
I also noticed the lower windows (most if not all) are so marked with dirt and sea salt that you can’t see much of anything, which may be part of why he picked her up. He couldn’t see out from below... likely...

Thank you!

 

[Andreee]

Unfortunately not the same windows. The middle section of windows on Freedom of the Seas continues angling out away from the ship. On your ship (Vision of the Seas?) the middle section of windows is angling back toward the ship. Not apples to apples.

DBM

 

[Andreee]

Wow, if the jury is going to view pictures like that they will have no problem finding him negligent.
No visit to the ship necessary!

Imo

I would still want to go and see for myself as it just makes it that much more real re. being there. Don't know if the court will allow that though. Be interesting to find out, if this case goes forward!

 

[Chikkamma]

I go on Symphony of the Seas in February. I’m curious to see the window design on their pool deck. Will take lots of pics for sure.

 

[mheido67]

I go on Symphony of the Seas in February. I’m curious to see the window design on their pool deck. Will take lots of pics for sure.

I really love the Oasis class ships. The Central Park garden space down the middle of the ship is fantastic. Enjoy!

 

[mheido67]

I go on Symphony of the Seas in February. I’m curious to see the window design on their pool deck. Will take lots of pics for sure.

Symphony does have operable windows at the perimeter of the pool deck (yes, near the kids splash zone as well). Very similar to Freedom but the operable portions are smaller. They are half of each window bay rather than the full bay like on Freedom.

 

[cattlekate]

Here you go, I am 5’4 wearing flats not on my toes, and my fingers passed thru the window frame no problem and I wasn’t reaching hard.

I’m a visual person so once I stood there I had the aha moment, no way you didn’t know sir....

THIS. Thank you for the visual.

After looking at the RC videos and posters’ videos, I have no doubt that SA searched out the fresh-air open window, being all hot and sweaty himself, and unbelievably hoisted his grand baby on the railing.

She squirmed/toppled over.

SA disregarded the warnings we are all given when on a ship and just all common sense.

 

[WiseGuy]

Exactly. And I bet the older brother could have played with her in the wading pool and she would have been happy and safe until Mom returned.

Right. In fact had the brother (Wyatt) taken complete responsibility for Chloe instead of grandpa, she would probably still be alive because no way would the brother be dumb enough to pull the insane stunt grandpa did. At least I assume so, some posters think that "crazy" runs in the family.

So effectively this clan of 8 people boards the ship and tells RCL, "There are 6 adults in our group, but guess who is responsible for the kids - the 6 adults? Nope, RCL YOU are. And don't let one of us do anything stupid or we will sue you." Ya, six adults, and this group couldn't figure out how to keep a baby alive for 4 hours.