IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[justbreathe]

Wow! How can he say he thought it wasn't opened? So obvious even in a photo.

The jury will see the photos of the windows and he will have to get a doctor to testify that he is colorblind. Not just color blind but color blind in regards to tinted windows or sunglasses etc... .
Like if he uses sunglasses that wouldn't make sense. They will look for a photo of him wearing sunglasses. Do his own regular glasses have tint? Mine tint in the sunlight.

..2 Cents...

The video clearly shows a number of open windows.

 

[justbreathe]

There will be footage of him in customs, walking up the gangway and everywhere on board, even to him interacting with mum before she left him with Chloe.

Ive seen families with walkie talkies to communicate around the ship but their cell phones would’ve worked at the dock. So how did he know mum needed him to look after Chloe?

My theory is the cruise staff found the rest of the fam and SA went to go get KW and said “I’ll watch her, go take care of xyz.”

 

[MsMarple]

Yeah I’m sure MW and his giant cruise ship suing firm don’t already have the software a major cruise uses for its surveillance.

Very likely. But apparently he chose not to use it when showing DB the video. Gee, I wonder why? 34 seconds vs. "a few seconds?" 34 l-o-n-g seconds of holding Chloe in the window. Cripes.

 

[justbreathe]

I don’t recall where but I know I’ve seen the shortened video. What I saw was not a question of frame rate. There were clear jumps in the video where you could see people who were walking had changed location instantly. It shows them approach the window, he leans over for a second then bends down and picks her up. You see him swing her over the railing and then just seconds later he falls back after she is gone. Will see if I can find it again.

This is the version where it appears he threw her out the window.

 

[al66pine]

dbm. a duplicate.

 

[al66pine]

dbm. a duplicate.

 

[al66pine]

Frequency of Jury Views?
@Lawnguylander1964 Thanks for your post & link
Murder trial jury takes trip to crime scene
2019 NC murder trial jury was bussed to a location ~ 20-some miles to BBQ Joe's, so jury could see parking lot where shooting occurred. Per article "... in his 14 years serving as a judge, Tuesday marked only his second time taking a jury to visit a scene..."
Not saying this is or is not typical, but jury views are not common in his court. I wonder how many other times a party has requested.

 

[justbreathe]

Great point!

Rephrasing:

Have you ever heard of someone standing in front of an open sliding glass door for 30 seconds and then asking the home owner if they can open the door because it's closed and they want to go out?

After reaching out and being unable to reach the door to pull or push it out.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

Good call! He's not straining at all, so easy to do!

it's 9 inches from the edge of the wood railing to the edge of the window sill. The upper body of an average height man is longer than 9 inches. It's not hard to lean forward and poke your head out the window, or at a minimum come *so* close to the window you would literally squash your face up against the glass if there actually was a closed window there. Somehow this narrative has shifted from a 51 year old man recklessly holding a baby near an open window "playing a game" with her to an elderly, colorblind grandfather who "thought there was a window there" and a family more interested in $$$ from a cruise line than examining what is mentally wrong with a man that would do something so reckless with their child!

 

[justbreathe]

I can't believe I never noticed it before looking at this very page. The guy blatantly has his hand outside of the window while measuring, and he isn't even leaning over the rail like SA clearly did in the CCTV footage.

Didn't SA also claim he reached out to try and touch/ knock at the window, then - upon meeting no resistance - leaned even closer towards the window????! It utterly strains credulity to think that even at that point (colour blind, nearsighted, whatever) he couldn't see the window was open based on the surrounding window sill, frame and handle.

RCCL should use Winkleman's own damning pic against him.

Omg! Thanks to MW we can see reaching and dangling is very easy haha

 

[Stinalyn]

I found this article today, and it is from a few months ago, but I couldn't believe that MW said that Chloe threw herself against the window and that's how/why she fell. Freaking Unbelievable....blaming poor little Chloe.

Chloe’s family said, through Winkleman, that Chloe liked to bang on glass panes while watching her older brother play hockey, but on the ship, the middle pane had been opened from the inside. So, the family alleged, when Chloe threw herself against what Anello thought was glass, her continued momentum pulled her from her grandfather’s grasp.

https://www.bradenton.com/news/business/tourism/article236769333.html

 

[JerseySleuth17]

I found this article today, and it is from a few months ago, but I couldn't believe that MW said that Chloe threw herself against the window and that's how/why she fell. Freaking Unbelievable....blaming poor little Chloe.

Chloe’s family said, through Winkleman, that Chloe liked to bang on glass panes while watching her older brother play hockey, but on the ship, the middle pane had been opened from the inside. So, the family alleged, when Chloe threw herself against what Anello thought was glass, her continued momentum pulled her from her grandfather’s grasp.

https://www.bradenton.com/news/business/tourism/article236769333.html

Frankly - that narrative is not very helpful to their case - you put an 18-month old child so close to a window 11 stories up you "thought" was closed that when she moved you lost your grip on her? And now instead of blaming yourself you blame a cruise ship because you recklessly lifted her over a safety railing (put there for a reason) and dropped her? That's somehow NOT your fault?? I know I sound like a broken record but my $ is on (a) he was on some type of medication that impaired his judgment, and (b) when he picked up CW and held her she got frightened (duh) and jerked or wriggled and he wasn't expecting it and he dropped her. Yes - if you hold a baby over open air 11 stories up they are going to squirm to get away from the danger. She didn't "throw herself" agains the glass she was struggling to get away from what she perceived as danger and this idiot dropped her.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

Another thought - SA refused a breathalyzer. I would not refuse a breathalyzer if I had not been drinking and had just dropped my granddaughter. A breathalyzer that came out clean would have helped their case against RCCL. They have cameras literally everywhere, they know if he was drinking or not and what he was drinking. I am wondering though if he had a drink, maybe only one which is why it wasn't enough for RCCL to leak it into the news, but that drink had a negative interaction with whatever medication I believe he was on, which impaired his judgment and his reaction time - e.g. "dad save" videos mentioned by another recently, a 51-year old man should have been able to grab her the second she started to fall imo. His actions are not those of a mentally stable man and his reaction time was off, even frankly his affect in the airport after the incident seemed off. Maybe the family knows he has some type of illness or is on medication and that's why they are privately forgiving him?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I found this article today, and it is from a few months ago, but I couldn't believe that MW said that Chloe threw herself against the window and that's how/why she fell. Freaking Unbelievable....blaming poor little Chloe.

Chloe’s family said, through Winkleman, that Chloe liked to bang on glass panes while watching her older brother play hockey, but on the ship, the middle pane had been opened from the inside. So, the family alleged, when Chloe threw herself against what Anello thought was glass, her continued momentum pulled her from her grandfather’s grasp.

https://www.bradenton.com/news/business/tourism/article236769333.html

GMAFB!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Another thought - SA refused a breathalyzer. I would not refuse a breathalyzer if I had not been drinking and had just dropped my granddaughter. A breathalyzer that came out clean would have helped their case against RCCL. They have cameras literally everywhere, they know if he was drinking or not and what he was drinking. I am wondering though if he had a drink, maybe only one which is why it wasn't enough for RCCL to leak it into the news, but that drink had a negative interaction with whatever medication I believe he was on, which impaired his judgment and his reaction time - e.g. "dad save" videos mentioned by another recently, a 51-year old man should have been able to grab her the second she started to fall imo. His actions are not those of a mentally stable man and his reaction time was off, even frankly his affect in the airport after the incident seemed off. Maybe the family knows he has some type of illness or is on medication and that's why they are privately forgiving him?

Nope, I don't think that's the reason.

 

[Cool Cats]

The video clearly shows a number of open windows.

Thankx. I need to check that, I was under the impression from articles that this was the only open window and that is why the defense lawyer, I think, said it needed a decal or warning on it.

Trying to remember, 2 Cents.

 

[neesaki]

Comments here in the states and in PR have been overwhelmingly against SA.

Yes, most people aren’t stupid like SA’s attorney apparently thinks they are. I have to say I find some comfort in that fact.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

But how can you have a decal or warning on thin air, the absence of glass? It makes no sense at all since the whole reason the tragedy happened was because CW was dropped through an open window. They are acting like there was no frame, no sill, no sliding window handle with which one could gauge distance and depth. His supposed colour blindness does not explain that.

 

[mjp1228]

I found this article today, and it is from a few months ago, but I couldn't believe that MW said that Chloe threw herself against the window and that's how/why she fell. Freaking Unbelievable....blaming poor little Chloe.

Chloe’s family said, through Winkleman, that Chloe liked to bang on glass panes while watching her older brother play hockey, but on the ship, the middle pane had been opened from the inside. So, the family alleged, when Chloe threw herself against what Anello thought was glass, her continued momentum pulled her from her grandfather’s grasp.

https://www.bradenton.com/news/business/tourism/article236769333.html

This whole beating on the hockey glass excuse is just ridiculous. Even the picture the family provided shows her standing with her hand toward the glass - not with her body thrown against the glass. What drew her to the glass was the fact that her brother’s team was on the ice skating - not just because it was her normal habit to go bang on glass indiscriminately. She certainly didn’t need anyone to pick her up to bang on the glass in the family’s picture. She looked extremely pleased to be standing there by herself. I’ve probably been to about 100 youth hockey games. It’s not that rare to see an older sibling wave or tap the glass with their hockey stick to amuse the young ones - especially during practice or warmups. In my opinion, that excuse is a complete red herring. Shame on all her “loving” family for blaming her instead of on the idiot who dropped her.

 

[al66pine]

Windows. Different Angles.

Emphasis mine above.
A comment about the windows;
They are big windows. Contrary to downplaying the size of the windows the MW filing actually tries to emphasize the size of the windows. He includes a whole bunch of photos claiming to show what one would see when standing against the rail and they are photos showing absolutely nothing but the sea. No window frames, no glass, no railing, no adjacent windows. Just water. IMO he did this on purpose to try and show that SA wouldn’t have had anything contrasting in his field of view to distinguish glass from no glass. He wants to make you think SA would be seeing nothing but the view outside the window. Of course they’re narrow angle photos probably taken with a phone. Nothing like a human eye which has peripherally a much wider field of view. If SA has his hands cupped around his eyes that’s all he might have seen. MW wants to make it look like SA would not have seen the frames or adjacent glass. It fits their narrative.

@mheido67 Agreeing w you about the pix you described.
But my post referred to the profile-angle pix, like reeenactor standing the doll on window sill/ledge, on right hand side of page 9 of Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 1.pdf9. Sorry I cannot copy & paste, to show the very, very narrow vertical slice of ocean & sky. <--- Viewer thinks, no danger of fall from there.
I think the pic on left hand side of same page may illustrate your ^ point.