IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[JulieBEMT]

People will do a lot to maintain close personal relationships. People pack this stuff away. Blaming the ship is easy, there's no personal baggage there to deal with. They can just offload all the guilt onto a faceless corporation. Honestly, this is the kind of thing family members will repress for years and years. Someday something might happen to trigger KW or AW to lash out at SA with a ton of repressed anger but for now they're doing what allows them to keep what's left of their family intact. Just an alternate reading IMO.

You assume these particular people WANT to look at the evidence/facts and WANT to alter their position. I still seriously doubt KW has watched the video. She's got her boogeyman in the form of RCCL. No need to look for another one where she doesn't really want to find one.

JMO, but this puts KW and AW on the same level as those who choose romantic partners over their children by turning a blind eye to abuse or molestation. As a parent, I believe your children's safety and well being should always be your top priority. In publicly defending the man who killed their daughter, they're saying he matters more to them than their own child did.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

SA may have been in KW’s life since she was a teenager but keep in mind that he is only around 13 years older than she is so it could not have been a very “elder fatherly” step relationship. More like big brotherly perhaps. When KW was 16, SA would have been about 31 and PA would have been 42? SA is like almost equidistance between his wife and stepdaughter. And also only 10 years older then his son in law. It’s an interesting family dynamic IMO. I can’t relate at all.

 

[mheido67]

JMO, but this puts KW and AW on the same level as those who choose romantic partners over their children by turning a blind eye to abuse or molestation. As a parent, I believe your children's safety and well being should always be your top priority. In publicly defending the man who killed their daughter, they're saying he matters more to them than their own child did.

I'm not endorsing it, just presenting it as an alternative to the very cynical moneygrab motivation. I also don't blame abused women who don't leave abusive relationships if I don't know all the details of their lives. People's psychology can be very complicated. Grief is very complicated. And we all handle it differently.

 

[Pigey]

Chloe died so horrifically that her parents must struggle to get through each day. Those first days must have been overwhelming. A lawsuit was filed against RCCL because blame had to be placed on something. KW went on autopilot. She's prosecutor. That's what she does. The idea that SA killed her daughter recklessly is too hard to accept. Maybe KW is having second thoughts now but she risks losing the relationship with her mom. AW goes along with the lawsuit because it's what the wife wants.

 

[mheido67]

Per the judges ruling denying RCCL's motion to dismiss he directed RCCL to respond to Plaintiff's claim that RCCL failed to produce video from two specific cameras within 5 days. Anyone know if RCCL has filed a response?

 

[JulieBEMT]

I'm not endorsing it, just presenting it as an alternative to the very cynical moneygrab motivation. I also don't blame abused women who don't leave abusive relationships if I don't know all the details of their lives. People's psychology can be very complicated. Grief is very complicated. And we all handle it differently.

You're right. I cannot judge that which I do not understand. I wasn't referring to abused women. I understand that there's a dynamic in play there that keeps them "stuck." I was referring to those whose children tell them that boyfriend/spouse/other has molested them (or other horrible things), and they continue to allow that person around their children. Those who knowingly embark on relationships with someone who has a criminal history for child abuse or exploitation, etc. Those who put their own happiness above that of their children.

 

[Only4Justice]

I just cannot with this case.

KM defending SA makes no sense. UNLESS she’s doing it for her mom (which is possible)

All the proven facts are troubling to say the least.

The parents brought this attention and scrutiny upon themselves whether it’s grief, denial greed, etc.)

I ONLY want justice for baby Chloe. Hopefully, that comes soon.

I think many of us need this resolved as much as can be.

All IMO

 

[MsMarple]

I kind of understand KW saying her family cannot grieve while SA is facing a negligent homicide charge. She seems to be stuck in denial and while that's a normal reaction in the short term IMO unshakable denial can't be resolved by any single action.

IOW, she's hoping for relief through a certain outcome that may not happen. For example, if SA is found guilty then what? I can't think for her or act for her, I can only empathize as a mother the profound sorrow she feels. But whatever happens in SA's case isn't going to change anything. He is and always will be the trusted person who placed her precious child on that railing; nothing can change that.

Maybe on some level she understands that and has made RCCL the villain by proxy. If that's the case then maybe a judgement against them will bring her the relief she seeks.

I also suspect that she is affected by the possibility of a large award, driven by her attorney who's stoking the fire with "hit them where it hurts" talk. I personally don't agree that RCCL caused Chloe's death, I put that solely on SA's head, I'm just doing my best to look at this from a different perspective and well, it's really hard. All MOO.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

Chloe died so horrifically that her parents must struggle to get through each day. Those first days must have been overwhelming. A lawsuit was filed against RCCL because blame had to be placed on something. KW went on autopilot. She's prosecutor. That's what she does. The idea that SA killed her daughter recklessly is too hard to accept. Maybe KW is having second thoughts now but she risks losing the relationship with her mom. AW goes along with the lawsuit because it's what the wife wants.

Grandpa did something incredibly stupid and reckless. Maybe he was drunk and/or medicated. Family is afraid he will do big jail time for his actions so they advise him not to take a breathalyzer, not to give any statements, whisk him back to the States, and instigate a lawsuit against RCCL 8 days after their daughter died blaming the cruise line to "save" SA from a Puerto Rican jail. Even if all this is true, I just don't know if I could rally against someone who just killed my child with their stupidity. Maybe if SA was that criminally reckless, as determined by a court, he should go to jail? I just am having trouble mustering up sympathy for this family based on their actions. Calling dropping your child to her death 11 stories up a "misdemeanor" rubs me the wrong way. I'd be more convinced if they went the "he's suffered enough every day is agony for him living with this route" than "if only there was a warning on the window" I never would have lifted CW up over a safety railing and held her so close to the edge she could fall out a window. Just not feeling it. Imo.

 

[Mommazz4]

I wish I could understand what they are saying in this video. This video was posted by La Comay on January 24, 2020.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=183836432724802

If you are viewing through Youtube, there is a link on the settings to translate

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Or it’s Winkleman wanting another feather in his cap like the duty lifeguards he won.

If you look at his bio on his law firm's website, you see the list of high dollar cases he's won.

He drives a very nice car, I'm sure.

 

[BeachSky]

Per the judges ruling denying RCCL's motion to dismiss he directed RCCL to respond to Plaintiff's claim that RCCL failed to produce video from two specific cameras within 5 days. Anyone know if RCCL has filed a response?

I thought RCCL said those were not cameras. They were speakers.

 

[1&2&3]

The only interview I have seen is back in the beginning when Chloe’s parents, SA and wife, as well as Winkleman appeared together. Winkleman was sitting between SA and KW.

Chloe’s father appeared to be crying the entire time, very red swollen face with him constantly wiping his eyes. It was real emotions IMO.

As I watched him, his demeanor said that he did not want to be there. He wanted nothing to do with this law suit. My impression of him was that KW was the instigator for the suit. He was a grieving father who knew nothing would compensate the loss of his daughter, so this appearing in public, talking about safety improvements on the ship, only increased the severe pain he was suffering. JMO.

 

[Wicked Strong]

SA is still negligent, if he had moved 1 to 2 sets of windows over or to windows that were closed, his actions would have still caused her to fall, only to the floor. While not homicide, still negligent. They would not be suing the cruise ship if she didn't die, but just got badly hurt. I don't know their motive, (hate to think it's greed). I can only think that there are some people that think big business can afford to pay off a lawsuit, even if it is not warranted. That's what MW is telling them.

It was interesting that they found MW so quickly after the accident. I've read that lawyers cannot contact people, however, I know when I was involved in a minor fender bender, I had several "ambulance chasers" wanting to "help me get what I deserved"!

It is possible that the mother is running the show, and the father seems to be too grief stricken to say enough. When my dear husband died, I only wanted the world to go away for a while, I couldn't have put any effort in anything more than getting up, going to work and going to sleep. There wouldn't be any time left for me to pursue lawyers and court cases and such.

MOO

 

[mheido67]

My GiGi would call him a snake oil sale


I thought RCCL said those were not cameras. They were speakers.

There were two speakers that MW thought were cameras but there were also two cameras which RCCL claimed they had not preserved footage from because the cameras were not directed towards the location of the window CW fell from and did not capture anything relevant to the case.

 

[BeachSky]

You assume these particular people WANT to look at the evidence/facts and WANT to alter their position. I still seriously doubt KW has watched the video. She's got her boogeyman in the form of RCCL. No need to look for another one where she doesn't really want to find one.

Most innocent people, or people who believe themselves to be innocent, don't plead guilty. I know if I was falsly accused I'd fight it to my dying breath. The fact that they went directly in the civil suit direction supports this. They instinctively defended their family member and went after something they have no emotional attachment too. I have no doubt they will seek large monetary damages along with changes to the
window design (warning stickers perhaps). Of course any good litigator will make the argument that hitting a big corp in the wallet is the best way to ensure that they will proactively address potentially dangerous situations before they face another big payout. Again, not saying you're wrong, just offering an aternate interpretation.

I’d probably given them more of an understanding if they had not gone with Winkleman.
He’s been constantly changing his narrative to fit RCCL’s disclosure. Ambulance chaser IMO.
The child did not find the danger on that Cruise Ship.
The danger was brought to the child by SA.
Just as if SA lifted her up to a window ledge in an 11 story hotel.
RCCL is not at fault.

MOO

 

[Fidobell]

The only interview I have seen is back in the beginning when Chloe’s parents, SA and wife, as well as Winkleman appeared together. Winkleman was sitting between SA and KW.

Chloe’s father appeared to be crying the entire time, very red swollen face with him constantly wiping his eyes. It was real emotions IMO.

As I watched him, his demeanor said that he did not want to be there. He wanted nothing to do with this law suit. My impression of him was that KW was the instigator for the suit. He was a grieving father who knew nothing would compensate the loss of his daughter, so this appearing in public, talking about safety improvements on the ship, only increased the severe pain he was suffering. JMO.

I did notice Chloes mum and dad appeared to not be on the same page during that interview as well . When it was released I remember thinking the family's body language appeared ' off ' . AW and KW did not look in any way supportive of one another , he looked a broken man who wanted to curl up in a ball . KW seems to be measured in her actions and was forging ahead with her goal of suing and consequently blaming the CC for this ' misdemeanour ' ( awful choice of wording but it did come straight from KW ) . Meanwhile SA sat with crocodile tears agreeing the ship was needing ' fixed ' . Strange family dynamics, no real interactions with one another JMO

 

[1&2&3]

Don’t throw too many apples my way, please. However, my thoughts are with KW being an attorney, her thoughts quickly jumped to “sue”.

The USA is sue happy as it is, so let an unimaginable accident like Chloe’s happen, what comes to your mind? Someone has to be ”blamed” for this horrific tragedy. Someone has to “pay”. After all, handling law suits is what KW’s career is about. Hiring a lawyer experienced in the field of maritime, KW’s knowledge of law, as well as her peers to aid her, this suit is a win-win in her eyes. JMO.

It is not within my soul to entertain the thought that this was anything other than a preventable accident! Holding a toddler up to an open cruise ship window with one arm, is too negligent to be considered a misdemeanor IMO! (SA admitted from the beginning that he held her with one arm).

 

[al66pine]

Choosing Others Over Children? Choosing $ & Others?

JMO, but this puts KW and AW on the same level as those who choose romantic partners over their children by turning a blind eye to abuse or molestation. As a parent, I believe your children's safety and well being should always be your top priority. In publicly defending the man who killed their daughter, they're saying he matters more to them than their own child did.

@JulieBEMT Good post. If, a big if, KSW had prior knowledge of SA having endangered Chloe before and she still asked SA to 'supervise' Chloe (esp on ship where, presumably multiple, alternative capable Chloe-watchers were available), then I tend to agree w ^ analogy/equation.

But after death at SA's hands, there's no possible further endangerment to Chloe, and the analogy/
equation factors get reset or rejiggered. No longer like a woman who has learned of (live-in) boyfriend's abusing her children, who continues relationship/to live w him, in effect 'forgiving' him or 'ignoring' injuries to children, and ranking boyfriend over children. <---There, potential for further injuries to children is an ongoing danger.

Since July by KSW refraining from publicly blaming SA and pointing/shifting blame to cruise line, there is a possibility of a substantial $$$ settlement/award and that position does not alienate SA (or KSW's mother). jmo

 

[neesaki]

DBM