IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[Midwestmom2019]

I realize it's Saturday night, but your posts ars usually so... logical? I dont follow...

I got it. Easy to follow. Other reasons for losing your grip on the toddler. And way more believable. IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Just to review, here is a quote from an early article July 9. After quoting the banging on glass story from the attorney it says:

“Police earlier said the grandfather, Salvatore Anello of Valparaiso, told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside a window on the 11th floor of the Freedom of the Seas, according to the Associated Press.”

He must have said that before Winkleman was hired.

Grandfather of toddler in cruise ship death thought window was closed, lawyer says

WOW. He told the truth back at the start.

I have found that in most of the cases here, if we scroll way back to the 1st threads, we get the raw truths of the events. As time goes on, attorneys get involved, people have second thoughts about their stories, and things get muddier and muddier.

 

[max99]

dbm

 

[max99]

Causing G'father to Drop Chloe? A Bump?

What if G’father said: ~ Holding Chloe in my arms, I was standing at the rail watching the dock, when A, B, C, or D hit me so hard, I lost my grip on her and she fell out of my arms, and I collapsed on the floor. Then I realized she had fallen, out thru the window.

A. A couple cruiseline employees rearranging furniture pushed a big lounge chair into me.
B. A 10 yr old kid chasing a frisbee bumped into me.
C. A two yr old wobble-walking grabbed my calf/leg for support.
D. Something else like ^ caused me to drop Chloe.


Q1. Could an action like any of ^ have happened, causing/contributing to G’father’s dropping Chloe.
A1: Yes, imo it’s possible.


Q2. Would being bumped like that (help) absolve G’father of responsibility?
A2: Depends, imo, on more detail (how far from window, how fast & hard the bump came, etc.) emerging. thru cruiseline’s vid presumably available later.


Q3. Think this hypo bump did in fact happen, causing G’father to drop her?
A3: No.

Q4. Why not?
A4: If something like this had happened, it would have been observed by passengers & others on that deck. And then pix, vids, articles, blog & vlog entries, interviews, podcasts, and vids would have surfaced all over soc media & MSM, back then, w no time lag til now or trial.


Q5: Any other reasons?
A5: Yes, two. First if the Bump-or had been a passenger, the word would have been circulating waaaay before now. Second if Bump-or(s) had been cruiseline employee(s), lawsuit would have been filed faster than no time flat.
Jmo.
[end of my interview w self, cut to commercial. j/k]

doesn't matter what he says.... there is video which will show if he was bumped....not understanding this post creating scenarios that will be confirmed or most likely refuted by video.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I deleted my post. I shouldn't have taken that I read upthread as correct or factual.

No worries. Lots of stuff being posted. Just asking questions. Or making comments.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

doesn't matter what he says.... there is video which will show if he was bumped....not understanding this post.

Could’ve should’ve would’ve post.

 

[max99]

Could’ve should’ve would’ve post.

my post wasn't directed at you...referring to post #734

 

[10ofRods]

doesn't matter what he says.... there is video which will show if he was bumped....not understanding this post.

That post was illustrating what the defense attorney will say. They'll also argue video angles. I predict there will be a couple.

 

[max99]

That post was illustrating what the defense attorney will say. They'll also argue video angles. I predict there will be a couple.

the defense attorney has already proven to be an ambulance chaser with his ridiculous scenarios...He's not doing anyone any favors other than his pocket book...

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Here’s the video for those just joining the thread - shows the deck and layout and clearly the windows are in a separate area from the children’s splash pool

Look at the distance between the railing and the window sill!!!!! at the very end of the clip.
IMO, if you put anything on the ledge, you stand a chance of it falling over and down. I got squeamish just looking out from that height without a window between the lens and opening. And that was from behind the railing.
Pictures. Videos. Thousands of words.
I understand clearly, I see clearly why he was charged with homicide. Not manslaughter.
All of this is MOO.
Tragic.

 

[neesaki]

I’d like to point out that another innocent person lower down on the ship, or the ground, could also have been seriously injured or killed.

People below, including first responders, would have been traumatized by this site. This is something folks get ptsd over. These people may also require long-term therapy.

My point is, Baby Chloe was not the only person harmed from this entirely preventable incident.

And it is really only fate and/or luck that no one below was seriously physically injured.

No matter how badly you feel for SA and that he “suffered enough,” he still should be made to answer for the potentially very deadly situation he caused for others, and the psychological harm to others his careless actions caused. MOO

I so agree, let’s not treat SA like he’s a victim, he is not. The only real victim is the poor baby, Chloe, who depended on and trusted this man to protect her. He did just the opposite.

One can only imagine what she might be thinking now while in heaven.

 

[MsBetsy]

Causing G'father to Drop Chloe? A Bump?

What if G’father said: ~ Holding Chloe in my arms, I was standing at the rail watching the dock, when A, B, C, or D hit me so hard, I lost my grip on her and she fell out of my arms, and I collapsed on the floor. Then I realized she had fallen, out thru the window.

A. A couple cruiseline employees rearranging furniture pushed a big lounge chair into me.
B. A 10 yr old kid chasing a frisbee bumped into me.
C. A two yr old wobble-walking grabbed my calf/leg for support.
D. Something else like ^ caused me to drop Chloe.


Q1. Could an action like any of ^ have happened, causing/contributing to G’father’s dropping Chloe.
A1: Yes, imo it’s possible.


Q2. Would being bumped like that (help) absolve G’father of responsibility?
A2: Depends, imo, on more detail (how far from window, how fast & hard the bump came, etc.) emerging. thru cruiseline’s vid presumably available later.


Q3. Think this hypo bump did in fact happen, causing G’father to drop her?
A3: No.

Q4. Why not?
A4: If something like this had happened, it would have been observed by passengers & others on that deck. And then pix, vids, articles, blog & vlog entries, interviews, podcasts, and vids would have surfaced all over soc media & MSM, back then, w no time lag til now or trial.


Q5: Any other reasons?
A5: Yes, two. First if the Bump-or had been a passenger, the word would have been circulating waaaay before now. Second if Bump-or(s) had been cruiseline employee(s), lawsuit would have been filed faster than no time flat.
Jmo.
[end of my interview w self, cut to commercial. j/k]

If that were the case, then why wouldn't he just say that?
The family said he held her up to the window so she could bang on the glass.
He claimed he leaned her against the window not realizing it was opened.
The reports say he was rocking her and the child was sticking out of the window and he dropped her.
If he had dropped her accidentally because someone bumped into him I would think that story would have come out by now.
Either way, it wouldn't be an issue if he was holding her out the window in the first place.

Imo

 

[Midwestmom2019]

the defense attorney has already proven to be an ambulance chaser with his ridiculous scenarios...He's not doing anyone any favors other than his pocket book...I'm out.

You’ve mixed up the civil lawyer with a potential criminal defense lawyer.

 

[max99]

You’ve mixed up the civil lawyer with a potential criminal defense lawyer.

I'm referring to the current defense attorney who has made a living off suing cruise ships by twisting and creating scenarios which video will either refute or confirm (thank god). Perhaps, I misunderstood the context of #734 post? No matter, if civil or criminal defense lawyer, in this case, video will rule - and in ways, that will not help the family heal. IMO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I so agree, let’s not treat SA like he’s a victim, he is not. The only real victim is the poor baby, Chloe, who depended on and trusted this man to protect her. He did just the opposite.

One can only imagine what she might be thinking now while in heaven.

I THINK that there is so much more to this case than we know or will ever know. IMHO SA is lucky that he isn't being charged more seriously.

 

[sl222]

This thread is over 25 pages, it is helpful because all the people here are familiar with cruises.
Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

 

[Medstudies]

Here’s the video for those just joining the thread - shows the deck and layout and clearly the windows are in a separate area from the children’s splash pool

Screen grabs from the video

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm referring to the current defense attorney who has made a living off suing cruise ships by twisting and creating scenarios which video will either refute or confirm (thank god). Perhaps, I misunderstood the context of #734 post? No matter, if civil or criminal defense lawyer, in this case, video will rule - and in ways, that will not help the family heal. IMO

Have we heard anything about witnesses? I would think on a crowded ship someone must have seen him.
I know they said they had interviewed witnesses but I'm wondering about an eyewitness who heard and saw the whole thing. Imo

 

[max99]

Have we heard anything about witnesses? I would think on a crowded ship someone must have seen him.
I know they said they had interviewed witnesses but I'm wondering about an eyewitness who heard and saw the whole thing. Imo

there's video....best witness on the planet (or ship) is video...

 

[sl222]

Also, the rail is round. A child could not sit on the rail without support. And from what I understand, the rail is about 12 inches from the window. Also the cruise safety rules explicitly state the purpose of the rail and rules about the rails.

I think (moo) that the GF was with Chloe alone walking around the area to just see the ship in general. The window is about 5 feet off the ground. You can see this from the photos that the window comes up chest level on an adult. That's really high up.