IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[Ixchel13]

went by 11th and College to check the cameras. There is only ONE camera, on the northeast corner of 11th and it is pointed east towards Amethyst House, an all-male oxycodone rehab house, and this is facing away from the corner Lauren supposedly turned. So no camera pointed towards that corner unless from a private residence.

 

[AbbeyR]

Is it just me or... do JR's statements seem to make MB invisible?

Yes, totally.

I've always been a little skeptical about the 'out of town guest', because he was never named as a POI, but this makes me wonder who was around. I don't think we can rely on JR's account alone to know.

 

[Kadence]

Once again, I want to thank you all. Your sincere efforts and ability to agree to disagree in a respectful manner is awesome! You continue to concentrate on what happened to Lauren and how she can be brought home to her loved ones.

I have no doubt that this is weighing heavily on someone that knows what happened that fateful night, at least I would hope so. Is there any "safe" way for said person(s) to make Lauren's fate known? Anyone have any idea how this could be done? If this person(s) is/are reading, they could use your help. Thank you.

As a side note, has anyone seen Bo Dietl in the Arby's commercial???!!!

 

[imkeylime]

... I have no doubt that this is weighing heavily on someone that knows what happened that fateful night, at least I would hope so. Is there any "safe" way for said person(s) to make Lauren's fate known? Anyone have any idea how this could be done? If this person(s) is/are reading, they could use your help. Thank you.

As a side note, has anyone seen Bo Dietl in the Arby's commercial???!!!

Snipped by me. I've probably watched too many crime stories, but could "said" person confide in someone who could pass the info on without breaching the confidence (clergy, psychiatrist, etc.)? Maybe it doesn't work that way IRL? IDK ... so much time has passed. The time to act is now.

Re: Bo Dietl and Arby's: yep. Not sure what I think about that ... it seemed like a stretch for him to be "legendary."

 

[AbbeyR]

Is there any "safe" way for said person(s) to make Lauren's fate known? Anyone have any idea how this could be done? If this person(s) is/are reading, they could use your help. Thank you.

Here are a few ways to submit an anonymous tip:

1) Send an anonymous email: This can be done by following a few simple instructions: http://www.technewsdaily.com/15493-anonymous-email-how-to.html)

2) If things like Proxy servers sound too techy: Walk into a library and send an anonymous email (Most public libraries don't monitor users or track internet use as a matter of principle, but you can check their privacy policies where you live to be sure).

3) Old School: Make an anonymous call to the tipline from a payphone

4) By mail: Use the anonymous PO box set up by the Spierers. If you want to be extra cautious, [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6943568&postcount=252"]this post[/ame] gives some suggestions and links to an earlier conversation on submitting anonymous tips.

5) Call Crime Stoppers or submit an anonymous tip online: https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.aspx?AgencyID=655&DSID=655

and last,

6) Consider the consequences of not being anonymous too. Stepping up and telling the truth, even if it's difficult, carries a lot of weight. It's been said a million times because it's true: It's never too late to do the right thing :heart:

[email protected]

Bloomington Police Department Tipline 812.339.4477

Find Lauren PO Box 1226 Bloomington, IN 47402

 

[Snapfade]

Snipped by me. I've probably watched too many crime stories, but could "said" person confide in someone who could pass the info on without breaching the confidence (clergy, psychiatrist, etc.)? Maybe it doesn't work that way IRL? IDK ... so much time has passed. The time to act is now.

Re: Bo Dietl and Arby's: yep. Not sure what I think about that ... it seemed like a stretch for him to be "legendary."

stumbled across a much younger BD .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jyUSZd9FC8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Jmoose]

I wonder if the Spierer family will ever know what happened to Lauren? This case really bothers me, because of the likelihood of involvement of her "friends"/fellow students-and their unwillingness to grow up and say what they know.

 

[VeryVeritas]

There's one other version ... and it's an even bigger discrepancy. This is from an article in Indiana Monthly, dated May 30, 2012 (another one-year later followup):

"Beth’s attorney, Ron Chapman (who also represents Rohn), tells IM that Beth, an IU student, stayed in all night to work on papers due that day. Chapman also confirms that Rossman was with Spierer when she came to the apartment, and that Beth helped Rossman into bed. Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. 'That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,' says Sokolova."

What interests me is that what MB said is filtered through a neighbor here. So did he 1) see her walk out the door for JR's, 2) walk her over to JR's, or 3) do neither of the above, re: Sokolova? If 3) is true, what happened next? Did she stumble out on her own or was she taken? If 3) is a lie, why did he change his story? One thing it does is remove him (and CR) from the picture almost completely. In fact, it doesn't even allude to JR's ... OTOH, there is proof of a phone call.

I'd like a clear timeline as to what came first. Did the PIs talk to MB before the Indiana Monthly reporter talked to Sokolova? And who else interviewed Sokolova? LE must have. IMO, when (if) MB told her this seems critical. If he told her before JR claimed to be the last to see LS, could it explain why MB's story changed (to incorporate JR into it)? (BTW, she appears to still go to IU—Kelley School of Business. Also, FWIW, MB and CR appear to be on her FB friends list.)

PS: I'd appreciate any thoughts on this ... possible implications, etc.

Oh yes, Thank you, VS story is #4. Ok when you have changed your story 4 times that smells. But unlike Jodi Arias, I can't see MB claiming self defense. It is exactly all of this which keeps causing me to think whatever happened was around that 3:30 call from MB to JR.

 

[VeryVeritas]

And, the very first story we have from MB is from the witness at CVS, who says MB told him he watched Lauren walk down the street towards home. virtually the same story that became JR's. That was the day Lauren went missing. I'm guessing the VS account also came from the same time period when people were looking for Lauren.

By June 10, Chapman mentioned to the media that the lawyers for the POI at 5 N had all been in contact with each other, so it makes sense that after that the stories were fairly consistent.

To me, the differences in MB's story are a red flag -- All people wanted to know was what time and where he had last seen Lauren. Considering he was one of the last two people to see her, this is pretty important and it shouldn't have been that hard to keep it straight, IMO, but AFAIK he has never been clear about the time, or the place, or what happened when Lauren came back to 5 N.

It is possible that some of the discrepancy comes from others, but again, considering this is the one detail that witnesses and journalists would have been interested in, and the one thing Chapman was hired to speak about on behalf of MB, I find it unlikely that everyone was just being sloppy and making mistakes about things like where LS went the last time she was seen. I think it's more likely that it is what it appears to be: MB and JR didn't have their story straight on day 1, and the account that Chapman gave the media initially was -- like Salzman's early account of CR -- somewhere between misleading and a lie. MB's account (like CR's) was modified as more evidence came to light from the PIs.

So, while I realize this isn't a whole lot to go on, it's the most concrete thing that we have to suggest the stories of the POI may not be true. So what are the areas of contradiction?

- Lauren's condition:they initially acted like she was totally fine and even helping CR home, until the video was released that showed she was barely conscious

- Who saw Lauren leave: MB and JR both said they watched her walk off toward home (in separate stories from separate apartments without mentioning the other), then MB changed his story at least two more times, with the last version revealing he took Lauren over to JR's

- Drinking/ drugs: MB's lawyer made several statements that he didn't drink or do drugs that night, in one case saying he was 'stone cold sober'. The PI's said he was drinking. Another small point, but relevant only because his lawyer made a big deal about saying it in the first place. Was this just to emphasize that MB was the 'sober alibi' for CR? Or was this part of the attempt to make it seem like none of them were actually hanging out together that night?

- The POI being together: The POI's first stories didn't include each other at all (with the exception of MB putting CR to bed), giving the impression they weren't together that night and Lauren was just wandering alone from place to place. But others have said that MB and CR were at JR's before the bar, that JR was at at the bar, and through rumors, there was a suggestion that they all went back to JR's after Kilroys. So the night started with LS, DR, JR, MB, & CR at JR's and it sounds like it more or less ended the same way - with LS, JR, MB and possibly CR at JR's, and a phone call from JR to DR.

This post is getting too long, so I'll stop there but others might have more to add to the list of contradictions?

I'll anticipate the obvious response, and say that each of these might be explainable by filling in the holes or assuming other people made mistakes. Or we can take out all the details and say the stories basically are the same thing. After all, the details don't seem particularly important. Like who cares if MB took LS over to JR's vs. LS walking out alone while he was upstairs? If she left JR's anyway, why would this matter? But that's exactly why it's suspicious. If she had really left, why would they conceal and/or lie about these details? That's what leads me to believe they may be important and point to a different story...

If the POI had been willing to take LE polygraphs, I would be a lot more willing to overlook the contradictions in their stories. But as it stands now, that's all we have to go on, and they aren't making the POI look very credible, IMO.

A very excellent point about MB telling the CVS clerk the same story that JR says he saw. That smells big time.

Concealing that they were often together that night, at least in different groups. Why would they do that? Because then it would seem not so strange for LS to then walk home alone, unconscious, phoneless and barefoot at the worst possible time? To cover up for the drugs? (that would seem silly but maybe it made sense to them at the time)

Different Story, what makes sense to you?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Snipped by me. Re: assuming other people made mistakes. The attorneys shouldn't, since it's their job to speak for their clients (as you've noted). I also wonder what Sokolova would gain from saying what she did (nothing I can think of), given the circumstances.

IMO, contradictions could matter a lot, especially when it comes to providing each other with "alibis" of sorts, i.e., CR was passed out, MB was putting him to bed, JR was getting ready for bed—while LS allegedly wanted to party.

One other possible thing: It's been asked why/if JR would cover for CR/MB. But is it possible it's the other way around? Referring to another part of your post ... yes, it appears to me that they didn't have their stories straight and thus possibly manipulated them in one way or another to be more cohesive.

The one thing that couldn't be manipulated, though, would be the phone calls from MB/CR's to JR's and JR's to DR's and whomever's (???). Those would have to be accounted for. If LS left like MB allegedly told the neighbor, would he have still called JR's (to make her his problem)?

I definitely think JR is covering for CR/MB and quite reluctantly. But because of these factors he had to get involved:
1) LS was at his place that night and it was undeniable, too many people knew it.
2) Drugs were involved, but we don't really know all of the angles on this, but it leads to several scenarios.
3) MB called JR at 3:30am creating an electronic trail that had to be explained (but has been totally downplayed!)
4) JR had a history with LS and old family connection. This also could not be avoided and so since he would become a POI no matter what, he could work it.

Look at how various scenarios might play out for JR if he say told the truth:
1) LS dies at CR/MB's at 3:25 MB calls JR at 3:30 panicky.
JR is on the hook and so if they call 911, the stuff about JR's connection and drugs comes out. They test LS and blame JR. JR takes the blame.
2) LS goes into convulsions or seizure at 3:25 MB calls JR panicky
JR comes over, she passes out. They try CPR, she dies. Again JR is on the hook for the same reasons.
3) MB puts CR to bed, comes back LS is gone. MB calls JR. They look outside and she is dead. JR gain is on the hook.
4) MB puts CR to bed, calls JR at 3:30, brings LS to JR's LS then vomits, goes into shock and dies. JR tells him to go home. JR again is on the hook for the same reason.
5) LS is at CR/MB's and something isn't going well. MB calls JR. JR comes over and takes her to his place. She dies, JR on the hook again.

So the way I see it, unless JR knew that CR and/or MB raped and killed her he would have to cover for them in order to cover for himself.

Now, just like MB was telling JR's story to the CVS guy, JR could be telling CR or MB's story about LS's injuries and condition. As pointed out... they did talk to each other. And possibly all of JR's story IS MB's story... he took it for his own to deflect attention from MB. Because if MB tells the truth, then it's JR that would go down. And that may be true for CR too...
The only way CR and MB go down is if they did something to LS, but if it were an accident, OD, from her injuries because she was FU'd, etc... in all of those cases JR could be held responsible. So CR/MB don't say anything about the drugs etc... or directly about JR. Instead MB's lawyer hints at it. In Return JR makes it seem like LS was at his place and he was the last to see her, to take the heat off of CR/MB. very cozy.

What would not make sense is if LS walked out of CR/MB's and just took off down the street never to be seen again and yet JR takes the hit for that. If JR never saw her and she disappeared; It would not make sense that he would take on a story that she was at his place until she could walk. Because then he would know there would be a real culprit and would have no need.

So this narrows it down for me. i can't see JR covering for others raping and murdering LS unless he was directly involved, and whether or not it involved drugs. I can't see JR covering for others if LS walked down the street after leaving CR/MB's and he never actually saw her after Kilroys. Then he might be motivated to find a culprit too. But I can see JR covering for CR/MB if LS died in his presence regardless of location. Also can see JR covering for CR/MB if LS was already dead at CR/MB's or somewhere between the alley and 5N, if he was conned by CR/MB to accept that it was linked to drugs at JR's or something like that. Finally there is the possibility that JR was simply blackmailed into covering for CR/MB. They may have simply said they will tell LE about dealing, etc... unless he covers for them. (a risky thing to do, but possible)

 

[VeryVeritas]

Here are a few ways to submit an anonymous tip:

1) Send an anonymous email: This can be done by following a few simple instructions: http://www.technewsdaily.com/15493-anonymous-email-how-to.html)

2) If things like Proxy servers sound too techy: Walk into a library and send an anonymous email (Most public libraries don't monitor users or track internet use as a matter of principle, but you can check their privacy policies where you live to be sure).

3) Old School: Make an anonymous call to the tipline from a payphone

4) By mail: Use the anonymous PO box set up by the Spierers. If you want to be extra cautious, this post gives some suggestions and links to an earlier conversation on submitting anonymous tips.

5) Call Crime Stoppers or submit an anonymous tip online: https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.aspx?AgencyID=655&DSID=655

and last,

6) Consider the consequences of not being anonymous too. Stepping up and telling the truth, even if it's difficult, carries a lot of weight. It's been said a million times because it's true: It's never too late to do the right thing :heart:

​

And even if someone might think they were involved or partially to blame, it may be possible to get immunity to testify against others.

 

[CoolJ]

Man Up Jay. Time to Come Clean

 

[imkeylime]

Oh yes, Thank you, VS story is #4. Ok when you have changed your story 4 times that smells. But unlike Jodi Arias, I can't see MB claiming self defense. It is exactly all of this which keeps causing me to think whatever happened was around that 3:30 call from MB to JR.

IMO, the calls ... the one from MB to JR and the ones from JR to DR and whomever ... are significant. I agree it's odd MB was concerned enough to call JR, yet JR was OK with letting LS just leave with no shoes or phone not that much later. It doesn't add up. Maybe I just haven't encountered "friends" like JR, but unless she did something to tick him off, I feel this part of the story is off. From that perspective, I think the three calls could be linked. MB calls JR to make LS his problem? JR calls DR and ??? for help since she's become his problem? Or for something else?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Stairs at 5N. I recall that there was something peculiar about going from CR/MB's apartment to JR's... even though they were considered next door to each other, was there some walking down and then back up stairs involved? The entrances are on 11th St and are Separate, correct? Can someone who knows the 5N building detail that?
Just trying to ascertain how many footsteps it is from CR/MB's to JR's and how many stairs are involved, if any.

With LS's last recorded condition being face down and apparently unconscious... I'm now trying to visualize CR getting LS up the stairs at 5N. What are those stairs like... is it all indoors and covered with carpet?... or is it a hard surface like concrete with some texture to it? How many stairs?

I'm thinking about JR's "walk test". You need to prove that she can walk, so you can make people think...
1) She's not at 5 N anymore
2) She isn't going to just fall down (like a flight of stairs, break her neck and die).
3) She wasn't' that FU'd (so the paryting at your place didn't contribute to her death)
4) ? Maybe you can think of other reasons?

But wait, just like the inconsistencies in the in MB stories of how LS got over to JR's
just how does she get to JR's (especially if it involves going down a set of stairs and then back up another set of stairs) without proving that she can walk? Would that not be quite a bit more of a "walk test" than what he could give her inside of his apt?
This leads me to believe that JR knew she could not walk, and so he had to come up with a story to explain that she could walk because others very likely may have seen her falling down. But if he knew she walked down and then back up stairs from CR/MB's to his place that should be proof enough that she could walk unassisted.
MB did not say he carried LS to JR's, and JR did not say he carried LS to his place. CR was supposedly in bed. So, they are both saying LS walked from CR/MB's to JR's.
So then why do you need a walk test?
If there are stairs involved in the walk between CR/MB's apt and JR's I would have to consider that she fell down them. That could have happened on the way in to CR/MB's in the first place, or later when she supposedly went to JR's either alone or with someone. (sure and a chance she was trying to get the hell out of CR/MB's or resisting going there in the first place and fell down the stairs as a result).

Falling down stairs and having a broken neck and/or other serious injuries could be another reason to hide a body. A lot of people have a hard time believing that if she OD'd they would hide her body for that. But what if she fell down stairs and and was really banged up with a broken neck? Then there is a culpability factor too... because with drugs you can say she voluntarily took them, you didn't know where she got them... etc... But if you were seen with her and then a short while later she is dead from falling down stairs in your building, that doesn't look good. In this case CR/MB are at first culpable. By calling JR, he's now involved, goes down to check out the situation and so they consider what would happen trying to explain this to LE. CR really messed up, all had been drinking and at the least CR and JR also had drugs in their system. In this situation, even more so than those just involving drugs, wouldn't LE bring them? You would need to conduct an investigation to see what killed her, if she were pushed, what was really going on. I can't imagine that LE would just cart off the body and let them all go back to bed.

Can this sort of fatal accident be ruled out in that supposed trip between CR/MB's and JR's?

And then with this scenario, from the 3:30 call to JR to the 4:15 calls, roughly a 45 minute interval exists. How long would it take for JR to go down the stairs, meet with CR/MB, then for one or more of them to get the body either back up to an apt temporarily and/or to get it into a vehicle? Including discussions, 45 minutes seems like more than enough time.

And some more statistics for thought:

The top 2 leading causes of accidental death in the USA not involving motor vehicles is: 1) drugs and poisoning 2) Falls

There is a book out called "The Sociopath Next Door". The PhD author claims that 1 in 25 people is a Sociopath without a conscience. I'd thought the number was more like 1 in 100. 1 in 25 makes it a lot more common.

 

[Jacobite]

Wow! Wow! Wow! Quote, "With LS's last recorded condition being face down and apparently unconscious..." Wow, are we discussing the same girl and the same case? I don't believe this is true at all! But, it would make a headline in a tabloid.

 

[Ixchel13]

had an amazing experience on Saturday afternoon, was driving around a bend in
a busy, upscale residential area and saw this cute little boy approx 2-1/2 yrs just running towards the street. Thought I'd see an adult but no one in sight! So I stopped my truck right in the middle of the street and got out, stopped a man and his wife going the other way and we stopped traffic going that way. The kid was dodging everyone, but
safe from being run over and about 20 cars in each direction at a standstill.
I went around the corner where he came from and it was this very, very steep ridge
and these people yelled from a balcony that he had come from way up the hill , this was woodsy. I ran back to where the woman had the boy, they had called 911 and found out
the boy was reported missing. People jumped in to help in this situation. Three police cars screeched up. Happy ending. I felt wonderful and everyone was giving thumbs up and yet I felt freaked out too.
This took about 9 minutes from the time I saw him til the police had him safe.Not to be a debbie downer, but had I been a bad person, I could have scooped him up, granted, lots of witnesses driving by. This isn't a lecture to anyone, just saying that bad
opportunities do come up and it isn't a .001% chance.
I looked in the police runs but couldn't find the incident, which happened Sat. about 2:30 or 3 maybe earlier. As a mother, I think of how that mom felt as she called it in. Being way up on the top of a wooded hilly ravine and knowing that he wasn't in the yard
and was really gone. And that someone may have grabbed him.
We will never feel the anguish of the Spierers unless it has also happened to one of us, my heart goes out to them and anyone who has had to face this pain. We will continue as a city to try to find clues towards finding out what happened to Lauren.

 

[VeryVeritas]

had an amazing experience on Saturday afternoon, was driving around a bend in
a busy, upscale residential area and saw this cute little boy approx 2-1/2 yrs just running towards the street. Thought I'd see an adult but no one in sight! So I stopped my truck right in the middle of the street and got out, stopped a man and his wife going the other way and we stopped traffic going that way. The kid was dodging everyone, but
safe from being run over and about 20 cars in each direction at a standstill.
I went around the corner where he came from and it was this very, very steep ridge
and these people yelled from a balcony that he had come from way up the hill , this was woodsy. I ran back to where the woman had the boy, they had called 911 and found out
the boy was reported missing. People jumped in to help in this situation. Three police cars screeched up. Happy ending. I felt wonderful and everyone was giving thumbs up and yet I felt freaked out too.
This took about 9 minutes from the time I saw him til the police had him safe.Not to be a debbie downer, but had I been a bad person, I could have scooped him up, granted, lots of witnesses driving by. This isn't a lecture to anyone, just saying that bad
opportunities do come up and it isn't a .001% chance.
I looked in the police runs but couldn't find the incident, which happened Sat. about 2:30 or 3 maybe earlier. As a mother, I think of how that mom felt as she called it in. Being way up on the top of a wooded hilly ravine and knowing that he wasn't in the yard
and was really gone. And that someone may have grabbed him.
We will never feel the anguish of the Spierers unless it has also happened to one of us, my heart goes out to them and anyone who has had to face this pain. We will continue as a city to try to find clues towards finding out what happened to Lauren.

Ixchel, Very good thing you were there. The odds of people doing the right thing are of course much much higher, or there would be a lot more people missing. The odds of random stranger abduction were not something pulled out of thin air. Go research them. Hey, I know someone that won the Powerball Jackpot, so the odds can't be so bad right? The official odds are 1 in 175,223,510.00 but because I know a jackpot winner the odds must really be 25% chance (or 1 in 4). That is your logic!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11
/28/15510840-11-things-more-likely-to-happen-than-winning-the-powerball-jackpot?lite

 

[Ixchel13]

Ixchel, Very good thing you were there. The odds of people doing the right thing are of course much much higher, or there would be a lot more people missing. The odds of random stranger abduction were not something pulled out of thin air. Go research them. Hey, I know someone that won the Powerball Jackpot, so the odds can't be so bad right? The official odds are 1 in 175,223,510.00 but because I know a jackpot winner the odds must really be 25% chance (or 1 in 4). That is your logic!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11
/28/15510840-11-things-more-likely-to-happen-than-winning-the-powerball-jackpot?lite

OK really? This isn't a powerball jackpot we're talking about. I've heard all kinds of statistics such as you've presented. Of course the odds are very slim that a stranger will abduct you. But as you place yourself nearer to them, meaning a place they will likely be in, a time they
may be out trolling, and then incapacitate yourself and watch those odds change drastically. All this was directly in place IF Lauren was able to leave and did leave.
Let's take this little boy the other day. By the way, I called the police station to get as many details as would be allowed. He had been missing only 12 minutes before the police had him safe. Time: middle of the day with people all around. Place:upscale neighborhood Chance of inebriated people trolling the neighborhood: very slim. Not really a place that someone would be trolling to snatch a kid, but not impossible. All in all, his chance of a stranger abduction was low, and if so, the police could have possibly run the person down on the spot with fast descriptions from the many people around who would have seen the abduction. Police response was excellent.
I totally agree that her friends could be involved in foul play. They are
telling different stories, but as we have agreed, take out the riff raff and the stories are pretty much the same. This could also be the level of drug abuse each one is responsible for. Are they just using or selling? If selling, then they are not going to go into that at all unless they are forced to. Their lawyers are probably telling the LE that when they have enough evidence to charge their client and arrest them, that's when they will tell EVERYTHING they know.
Until then, no more talking.
Look at what we alone have done with the info that they have given. We have tried and convicted them. I don't feel sorry for them. I think they deserve the scrutiny and bad feelings they are getting just because they didn't make sure she got home. But, let's play hot potato for a minute. Plenty of other people had the chance to rein Lauren in but let her go, especially those no good roommates of her's. No one insisted that she stay safely back at SmallWood. People wonder how the altercation got started in the 5th floor lobby near her apt. Well, let's see, I'm willing to bet that HT and BW have something to do with that. Somehow, they come off as victims. This time Lauren went too far my arse, they were up to their eyebrows right along with her and were probably waiting for her to get back. When she didn't show, they should have called the police immediately, IMO, MOO, MHO.

 

[Jacobite]

Convicting someone for a crime based on stats is called prejudice. And, despite the low odds of you being kidnapped, it happens everyday in the USA.
And, I see Jay Rosenbaum looks quite guilty because he hired a lawyer who is known for representing the bad guy. But wait a minute. I once used an attorney who was just as famous for representing bad guys. I used her not because I was guilty of anything. But, because she was my friend.
One more thing. A witness did indeed stop to help Lauren that night. Yet she did not call 911. Why not? A. Corey Rossman is such a magical charmer that he convinced her she did not see what she saw with her own eyes.
B. What she saw was not as severe as is being distorted on this board.

 

[Ixchel13]

It's risky enough just walking down the street barefoot in bloomington after being drugged late at night after hanging out at a testosterone convention. But prostitutes and strippers risk their lives daily, it boggles the mind.

OK VV, went to find this post of your's. So, statistically, pros and strippers
risk their lives daily according to you. And I'll have to agree with that wholeheartedly.
Mickey Shunick was out at a time when strippers and pros are working, alone and vulnerable, when a demonic criminal just happened to be in the same area looking for a prostitute.
Lauren, IF she left JRs apt, was in an area where prostitutes work, at a time when prostitutes work, and was incapacitated and vulnerable. Do you think it is a million to one odds that weirdos weren't cruising this area? Or that even a weirdo, a
criminally minded person, would be driving by on one of the main roads out of town?
And by the way, I don't know anyone who has won the lottery. I am basing my thoughts on a very, very thorough knowledge of that area, what it turns into at night, what kind of people are around there late at night, and how really vulnerable these naive kids are, even the ones who think they know it all, can handle any situation, can get over their heads in an instant.
8 or 9 years ago, a bunch of junkies were shooting up and one dies. Now, there's 2 people who know what went on, who gave the person the lethal dose. Then, wouldn't you know it, the cooperative one dies of a drug overdose, the other one now has no one to say he did it and went free...
prolly to OD himself, who knows?
Bloomington Police did a great job of getting big city drug lords out of here, but they were replaced by the prescription drug pushers and the rural meth makers. sheesh