IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[Ixchel13]

Your reasoning is superb.

With all of the gang rape news lately I did some research.
It appears that group or gang rape is suddenly dramatically increasing.
What this type of rape shares with most kinds of rape is that the incidence is is very highly correlated with alcohol. But this type of rape has a much higher correlation with not only alcohol but drugs as well. 47% of cases involve both victim and perps being under the influence of one or both.

I was also thinking heavily this past week about motivators for the apparent 5N conspirators. When I considered gang rape (which I didn't want to think about) I realized it would be one of the most powerful motivators to keep mouths shut. Can you see the sentences being handed down for gang rape and covering up her death? If everyone that knew, participated, they would all be pretty much equally guilty. The prospect of spending 20 years in prison would keep their lips this tightly sealed.

Some other interesting facts about gang rape.
Like other types of rape, the victims often knew at least 1 if not all of the rapists. The victims tend to fight back more. The victims are more likely to report the rape. There are only 200,000 or so reported cases of rape annually in the USA. The real number is at least 2 Million. Unfortunately we all know that in its various forms, rape is horribly common, even so, according to the FBI, forcible rape has declined 85% in the past few decades. The peculiar thing is that gang rape has actually been increasing.
In almost 1/3 of the cases the gang rape occurred in the home of one of the perps.

Unfortunately, we can't rule out gang rape. One other thing that clicked and caused me thinking this way, was MB's lawyer saying that Lauren wanted to party more, etc... and also before I had noted this made it sound like LS was asking for it, similar to how victims of rape are treated. It occurred to me that maybe that is indeed what happened. And then the statements about LS wanting to leave but MB trying to convince her to stay the night. Turning this around from the victim's point of view in a rape scenario... I could see how MB would NOT want LS to leave. First she wants to "party", and then there are attempts to contain her. There are only so many ways I can play that scenario. Unfortunately covering up gang rape is plausible given what we know. I still think she died accidentally. But the idea that it may have involved rape, gang rape, attempted rape, attempts to restrain her, are quite infuriating.

Previously I'd really had a hard time buying these POI's as capable of such a horrific thing. But I'm past it. I'm reminded of a trip I took to Cancun a couple years ago and for fun took the MTV bar hop tour bus with my then significant other. I can't tell you some of the things we saw, but it was positively things you would never imagine is going on during "Spring Break". It totally shocked us and we were expecting to see something wild. Mardi gras flashing is lame by comparison. And mind you, these were wealthy, intelligent and attractive women from the good ole USA that I was observing. One of the more silly and unexpected things was in a bar with all neon, everything glowing, black lights. On the bar itself there were little metal holes every few feet. And on the outside of the bar counter were metal buttons. When you push the button a jet of air would blast out straight up. At first I was totally naive thinking why would you have something like that? But then... girls in the bar(not paid dancers) got up on the counter not wearing underwear under their skirts and guys started pushing the buttons. crew came out with unlimited shots for everyone. Ok, I've never brought myself to watch "girls gone wild" videos, but having seen this stuff first hand, I'm sure what I've seen in real life tops that. The contests I saw...I can't even type... My point here is that maybe these POI's (And I have no idea about LS, and certainly not implying anything there) had been to such places and/or had such a mindset. The fact is when people are so intoxicated on alcohol and drugs, inhibitions are dramatically lowered. (2% of gang rapes actually occur in bars.)

Really don't think there's gang rape in this case----just like you don't think it could be anyone other than the POIs. JMO

 

[AbbeyR]

Kilroys closed down for remodelling right after Tony G. got those employees to talk.....

Didn't he say they weren't employees at Kilroy's? I thought one was a bar manager at another bar, and the person who supposedly overheard Lauren at Kilroy's was only described as an 'insider' to the case. Although there's a post somewhere by Jacobite where he claims to know who it was and that they were lying...

I could be wrong though.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Did Lauren put up any kind of resistance or struggle? If so, I'm afraid the evidence was destroyed by searchers very early on.

What do you mean? Or rather, could you elaborate?

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I definitely agree with you. I don't believe HT was involved, but I do think people are taking the inch she provided in her interviews and turning it into a mile.

HT was good friends with both JR and LS.....I can't imagine making sense of one of my BFFs/roomies going missing, and having another good friend be a POI. There's a good chance she was probably in denial, and not wanting to believe JR could be involved, hence her thoughts on a random abduction....not wanting to believe he could be involved, so believing him.

I too would definitely be interested in knowing what her thoughts are now. Just saying- a really good way to keep LS's story out there would be to have her friends/roommates (yes, I'm referring to non- POIs) interviewed on either TV or for a newspaper/magazine. Its almost been 2 years since they were all interviewed from various reporters/stations to generate attention to the case- a lot has changed, the reality of the situation has long set in, and LS would be graduating from IU this spring. It would be really interesting to hear if HT and JR remained good friends after returning to IU in fall 2011, or if he avoided her, or she came around and ended up avoiding him.

I agree that it's unlikely she was directly involved but I have to admit hearing that comment about LS taking it to far struck me. I only read the comment and didn't hear her say the words so while it could be easily taken out of context without the benefit of hearing the inflection in her voice, the words alone are loaded. To me the statement is aggressive, hostile and indicative of rivalry. More importantly is what it doesn't imply. It doesn't imply concern, worry, compassion and sympathy, it doesn't imply honor, respect or love and friendship.
She very well may not know what happened but if that is the case then she chose her words very poorly and comes across at the very least as a vapid airhead.

 

[AbbeyR]

...<snipped> Additionally, I really feel like MB would have been the person LE could have "broken" for information, being that he gave many many variations of the last time he saw Lauren. The only thing from his story I'm going to believe is that he truly was working on papers for school, and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when all of this happened. However, he chose to move forward in the way he did, so no sympathy here.

I agree. Although IIRC, I think in his later stories he actually was hanging out at JR's as well, not just working on papers.

Sort-of-but-not-really-related:

Does anyone remember why <modsnip> from WS? I was away for the summer then and missed it, but recently found a few of those posts when I was re-reading the Gatto stuff. Right before she was banned she was talking about the connection between MB and "Ray" on PT.... <modsnip>

 

[deca]

I agree that it's unlikely she was directly involved but I have to admit hearing that comment about LS taking it to far struck me. I only read the comment and didn't hear her say the words so while it could be easily taken out of context without the benefit of hearing the inflection in her voice, the words alone are loaded. To me the statement is aggressive, hostile and indicative of rivalry. More importantly is what it doesn't imply. It doesn't imply concern, worry, compassion and sympathy, it doesn't imply honor, respect or love and friendship.
She very well may not know what happened but if that is the case then she chose her words very poorly and comes across at the very least as a vapid airhead.

I agree, poor choice of words.
I wonder if she had had concerns about LS's behavior in the past and LS blew her off?
The reason I wonder that is because when I was in colllege one of my 3 roommates was a "partier". She would go out by herself late at night, meet up with near strangers at bars and leave with them. Once or twice she didn't come back to the apartment for 3 days. She would regale us with tales of how she got wasted, took E, whatever. We frequently expressed our concern over her safety, which she laughed off.
After almost a year of this, we just shook our heads in resignation. Now, we didn't want anything bad to happen to her, but if something did I can see saying something (stupid) like, "This time she went too far." Obviously, a dumb thing to say and it could be that she is deeply saddened by Lauren's disappearance. Just trying to express how in a different context HT's quote can look a little different. JMO

 

[AbbeyR]

I get the feeling HT is no stranger to partying.

I do recommend digging up that link if people are going to analyze it though. It really did sound a lot different in context. I'm not even sure if the words have stayed the same in the discussion of it here.

 

[Ixchel13]

Ray's full moniker was "Ray Anastasio", I guess supposed to rhyme with Trey
Anastasio, front man for Phish. JW's sister's boyfriend was friends with the actual Trey Anastasio.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I get the feeling HT is no stranger to partying.

I do recommend digging up that link if people are going to analyze it though. It really did sound a lot different in context. I'm not even sure if the words have stayed the same in the discussion of it here.

In that case I really would like to actually hear it myself in her words. Do you or anyone else remember at least which site it came from? I've searched for it but didn't find it yet.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I agree, poor choice of words.
I wonder if she had had concerns about LS's behavior in the past and LS blew her off?
The reason I wonder that is because when I was in colllege one of my 3 roommates was a "partier". She would go out by herself late at night, meet up with near strangers at bars and leave with them. Once or twice she didn't come back to the apartment for 3 days. She would regale us with tales of how she got wasted, took E, whatever. We frequently expressed our concern over her safety, which she laughed off.
After almost a year of this, we just shook our heads in resignation. Now, we didn't want anything bad to happen to her, but if something did I can see saying something (stupid) like, "This time she went too far." Obviously, a dumb thing to say and it could be that she is deeply saddened by Lauren's disappearance. Just trying to express how in a different context HT's quote can look a little different. JMO

Well, yeah, the context can be everything in this case. Best case scenario, it's just what you describe. Although, I've only ever heard that LS was NOT a big partier but who knows. Worst case is that my initial feelings on reading the statement are closer to the truth, in which case the very fact that it made you wonder about these things would prove that point. I guess, out of context, I felt like if HT were sincere in her concern and her love for Lauren then she wouldn't plant that seed in others mind, lead them to question Laurens behavior, fully disregarding any feelings of responsibility to guard Laurens reputation. I really want to hear it because without hearing her it's hard for me to see that statement as anything other than thinly veiled victim blaming. I definitely do not think HT is smart enough to contrive such a thing to attempt a physiological manipulation of public opinion but it could point to some bigger division between the two that absolutely could be relevant. All the way from what she could know happened all the way to her subconsciously thinking LS deserved this in some way and therefore not really caring if she is recovered or not. Or it could point to nothing more than poor communication skills. But, yeah, the fact that it made you wonder is exactly what bothered me about it, especially since I don't view LS as that girl. I'm curious, does anyone?

 

[AbbeyR]

In that case I really would like to actually hear it myself in her words. Do you or anyone else remember at least which site it came from? I've searched for it but didn't find it yet.

I did a quick search and I think the video has been taken off line.
(You might be able to find it on Youtube, since most of the news clips were uploaded there, but I don't have time to look. Here's the original link for reference: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/national/110608-search-for-missing-student )

I did find a quote from the video posted in a comment on Gatto's blog:

From the Fox Video, 6/8: “She is just a fun and smart girl who loves hanging out and partying. Unfortunately, it just went too far this time. I just think she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Bloomington is normally a really safe area but when you’re walking around alone at 1:30 in the morning even though our apartment is only 3 blocks away from our friend’s house she was at, anything can happen at that time. It’s dark. You never know.” She then describes how Jay watched Lauren walk out.

Reading it again, there do seem to be some mixed messages...

 

[Ros]

Ray's full moniker was "Ray Anastasio", I guess supposed to rhyme with Trey
Anastasio, front man for Phish. JW's sister's boyfriend was friends with the actual Trey Anastasio.

The connection between "Ray" and MB was that "Ray" claimed to have gone to high school with MB and also to be best friends with all four of JR's roommates. See PT post by Ray_Anastasio - 2011-06-21 19:36:29 -0400 (I hope I have posted this correctly by WS standards.)

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I did a quick search and I think the video has been taken off line.
(You might be able to find it on Youtube, since most of the news clips were uploaded there, but I don't have time to look. Here's the original link for reference: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/national/110608-search-for-missing-student )

I did find a quote from the video posted in a comment on Gatto's blog:


Reading it again, there do seem to be some mixed messages...

Yeah, there are. The extended version, to me, is actually worse. And, what happened at 1:30??
Btw, thanks for looking, I didn't expect you to look for me! Thank you, I'll try to track down a repost of it somewhere if I get some time today. I'll definitely post a link if I find one.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

***RUMOR***THE FOLLOWING IS CONCERNING RUMOR FROM AN UNKNOWN SOURCE***

I recently read a post about Lauren on some sketchy site that I stumbled across on a broader search for something on her case. It was a short paragraph or two that I think some site admin posted there pretty early on after she disappeared. The posting was just basically asking anyone with any inside information to come forward. The site is sketchy and not a 'news' site, the post was pretty much what you would expect from a college kid. Nothing that outstanding about it. But, in the comments there was a post by 'anonymous' that says AB's car matches the description of a 'small sports type car' that was seen on video circling the block several times around SW around the time that she was last known to be around. I have heard about the sports car on the video, but I'd never heard that one of ZO's boys has (or had?) a car that matches the one seen on that video. Has this already been covered and I missed it, or does anyone know if there is any truth to any of this?

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

found it! Finally.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/video?clipId=7193912&autostart=true

Listen close, at the end of her comment about Lauren 'going to far this time' there is an edit cut between there and her next statement about 'she was in the wrong place at the wrong time'. I realllly wish we could hear what she says in between.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Oh Snap! There are 2 different videos - Here is the other one. Interesting!!
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/video?clipId=7193942&autostart=true

 

[Kadence]

Oh Snap! There are 2 different videos - Here is the other one. Interesting!!
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/video?clipId=7193942&autostart=true

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a distinct difference between the reaction, and tone of voice, of Lauren's friends in the video from NY and the video of HT's comments regarding Lauren's disappearance?! HT, IMO, sounds unemotional and detached. When I first heard and saw her speak, I guess I didn't notice that as much as I do re-hearing it now. No tears, no sympathy, no call to action, no protection of her, just matter of fact, slightly perturbed/bothered (IMO), past tense talk. Not the way a true friend, again IMO, would react to a missing friend and roommate. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Thanks for re-posting those videos!! It was good for me, and perhaps others, to have another listen!

 

[Dixie811]

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a distinct difference between the reaction, and tone of voice, of Lauren's friends in the video from NY and the video of HT's comments regarding Lauren's disappearance?! HT, IMO, sounds unemotional and detached. When I first heard and saw her speak, I guess I didn't notice that as much as I do re-hearing it now. No tears, no sympathy, no call to action, no protection of her, just matter of fact, slightly perturbed/bothered (IMO), past tense talk. Not the way a true friend, again IMO, would react to a missing friend and roommate. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Thanks for re-posting those videos!! It was good for me, and perhaps others, to have another listen!

I was just thinking the EXACT same thing.

 

[akh]

Are you all sure she says 1:30 and not 4:30? Sounds to me like she says 4:30 and the transcript just got it wrong.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Are you all sure she says 1:30 and not 4:30? Sounds to me like she says 4:30 and the transcript just got it wrong.

I think you're right, it sounds like 4:30 to me.