I live in Greenwood, IN...about 50 miles from Bloomington and 15 miles from downtown Indy. Lauren is a year younger than me and I had several friends attending IU when this happened, so this case has been heavily on my mind since Day 1. This is only my second post on WS, so hi everyone! :newhere:
... It's just terrifying for me to think about all the ruralness of the surrounding areas...I know searchers have done an outstanding job, but the amount of places she could be is so much. My family goes to Lake Monroe almost every weekend during the summers & I've been to Brown County State Park many, many times and the possibilities at even those two places are vast. The scariest though, IMO, is Morgon/Monroe State Forest. I went there quite a few times back in high school (Stepp Cemetery was a popular place for people to go in high school to freak themselves out...and it surely does the job) and the pitch black darkness, winding roads, etc. is terrifying.
I doubt the poor girl was capable of doing anything more than struggle to stay on her feet, and she didn't have much success at that. This is the series of mishaps LS suffered as they were, to use Parker's term, "making their way" to 5N.When LE first described the video, two yrs ago, the term..questionable activity...was used in reference to what was going on in the alley. My first thoughts were it was activity related to "making out" of some sorts, partaking in drugs, or relieving oneself. Or vomiting. Carrying or piggybacking someone did not enter my mind, nor would I term this questionable. How do we know that the above, with the exception of carrying did not occur? Dietl described her as very much alive in the alley video.
I doubt the poor girl was capable of doing anything more than struggle to stay on her feet, and she didn't have much success at that. This is the series of mishaps LS suffered as they were, to use Parker's term, "making their way" to 5N.
1. Stumbled out of the elevator at SW.
2. Hit her head on some steps.
3. Fell face first without trying to break her fall.
4. Shortly afterward, "crumbled" to the ground.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30
This bit hurts so much to read. I don't know how her parents can handle this. I am a total stranger, never met Lauren, and I just want to grab her and protect her.
Im sorry, but there is no way MB had a legal duty of care to bring Lauren to a particular apartment simply because she requested it. He didn't invite her over, host the gathering at JR's, go to Kilroy's or bring her back to his apartment. Finding a drunk girl in your apartment almost certainly creates no affirmative duty of care; certainly any duty would be satisfied by trying to get her to stay and then leaving her with a closer friend of hers.
Then CR carries LS back to 5N. The report states MB escorted her to JR's. I assume escorted means he walked her there. Then JR states he watched her walk away. How does someone who just went through what LS went through just walk away? I woukd think these are the questions the Spierer's want answers to.
Here's a case with an example of the duty of care argument. I've posted this before but it might be useful to compare, since there are a few potential similarities.
Griffen Kramer case: GK goes out with 4 friends, they do heroin (willingly). He passes out and starts foaming at the mouth, and instead of dropping him off at a hospital or calling 911, his friends drive him around trying to get someone else to deal with him. When none of their friends will take him off their hands, one of his friends drags him back to his house, puts him in a bedroom alone and goes to another party. When they found him the next morning, he was dead.
All of the friends were charged with involuntary manslaughter. This wasn't because they gave him the drugs. He purchased them and took them willingly. The argument was that once he passed out in the custody of his friends, they had a "duty to care" for him. It was obvious he needed help and any reasonable person would have called 911. If they had, he would have lived. So, when they chose not to, and instead dragged him around and put him in a room alone, they didn't just fail to get help their actions contributed to his death.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-death-NFL-star-Erik-Karmers-son-Griffen.html
http://agourahills.patch.com/groups...est-to-involuntary-manslaughter-in-a53f0a0fcd
So this is my understanding of how duty of care works -- I'm hoping someone will correct me if this is wrong.
- There's no general duty to care for or rescue someone who is in danger because of something totally unrelated to you. So, for ex: you don't have to perform first aid if you come across the scene of an accident, even if you have training and could help them.
But there are lots of exceptions that can create a duty of care:
- As Sammi said, if you start to assist someone, you have a duty to finish. If you take on helping someone, or if you tell them you are going to help them, you have a duty of care even if you didn't originally.
When Griffen Kramer's friends started trying to get friends to take him, they took it upon themselves to help him. Since they didn't actually help and just left him in a room, they also put him in a situation where he was reliant on them and no one else could help him. ( I think this applies to MB)
-There is a duty of care if you participated in creating the risk.
With CR this seems obvious.
- CR bought her drinks, got her so drunk she couldn't walk on her own, and then when she was totally incapacitated, took her away from a public place, away from Smallwood and to his place. He knew she couldn't walk there without him carrying her and her condition was obvious enough that at least two people tried to stop him, so he can't claim he didn't know what condition she was in or couldn't foresee the risk of her not getting home safely.
And, it wouldn't have been a burden for him to fulfill the 'duty of care'. All he had to do was leave her at her home, call her roommate, call a taxi, call 91 All of these options could easily have been done and weren't. Instead, once he got her out of the reach of help, he abandoned her.
- With JR, if you host a party and provide alcohol to minors, aren't you responsible for the possible consequences (not just the foreseeable ones) if something happens to them?
- CR bought her drinks, got
Respectfully snipped by me.
her so drunk she couldn't walk on her own, and then when she was totally incapacitated, took her away from a public place, away from Smallwood and to his place. He knew she couldn't walk there without him carrying her and her condition was obvious enough that at least two people tried to stop him, so he can't claim he didn't know what condition she was in or couldn't foresee the risk of her not getting home safely.
And, it wouldn't have been a burden for him to fulfill the 'duty of care'. All he had to do was leave her at her home, call her roommate, call a taxi, call 91… All of these options could easily have been done and weren't. Instead, once he got her out of the reach of help, he abandoned her.
- With JR, if you host a party and provide alcohol to minors, aren't you responsible for the possible consequences (not just the foreseeable ones) if something happens to them?
I think the social host law in IN would apply to JR ... and maybe CR since he bought her the drinks at Sports. Then again, Sports served them, so IDK. Here's an excerpt from the webside socialhostliability.org re: IN:
430
Under IC7.1-5-10-15.5, a commercial server or a social host is not liable for the actions of intoxicated patrons or guests unless (1) the commercial server/social host had actual knowledge that the patron/guest was visibly intoxicated at the time alcoholic beverages were furnished and (2) the intoxicated person was the proximate cause of the injury or damage alleged. Weida v. Dowden, 664 N.E.2d 742 (Ind. App. 1996), Vanderhoek v. Willy, 728 N.E.2d 213 (Ind. App. 2000), and Culver v. McRoberts, 192 F.3d 1095 (7th Cir. 1999) Also under IC7.1-5-7-8(b), educational institutions, it appears, are not subject to civil liability unless they sell/furnish alcoholic beverages to a minor. A licensee is not normally liable for the injuries resulting from the criminal conduct (e.g., murder) of an intoxicated patron. Such conduct
is either not foreseeable or is an intervening act that breaks the necessary probable cause for liability under the Dram Shop Act. Merchants Nat. Bank v. Simrells Sports Bar, 741 N.E.2d 383 (Ind. App. 2000)
431
Historical Note: After April 1, 1986, common law dram shop actions were restricted by IC7.1-5-10-15.5. The Gariup Const. Co. and Ashlock decisions were based on factual situations that occurred prior to this date.
432
In the Delta Tau Delta case, a guest at a fraternity house was attacked by another guest who was intoxicated. The State Supreme Court held that the dram shop law did not apply in this social host liability situation since there was no indication to the social host (the fraternity) knew that the injury-causing guest was visibly intoxicated. Note: The court, however, did find that the social host was liable under the common law for failure to maintain a safe place for guests.
From what I can conclude, if it can be proven that JR and CR could tell that LS was visibly intoxicated, the social host law would be applicable. The fact that LS was a minor would be another issue, I'm sure. Maybe someone who can read legalese could help me out here. But it appears JR and CR both knew LS was visibly intoxicated, based on what MB states. Perhaps JR also didn't maintain a safe place for guests?
The social host law is big in my state right now, with end-of-the-year and graduation parties everywhere. My heart goes out to Griffen Kramer's family. (Slightly OT, but his dad was one of my favorite underdog quarterbacks for the Detroit Lions). But this can happen at so many levels. A close friend of mine threw a celebratory party for the HS football team here. She did everything right ... talking with LE, the coach, etc., beforehand. And it still went south ... the party got out of hand, with kids sneaking in clear alcohol in sports bottles, and she had to call EMS when a team member became visibly intoxicated. She did the right thing, but it was a horrible wake-up experience.
The argument was that once he passed out in the custody of his friends, they had a "duty to care" for him. It was obvious he needed help and any reasonable person would have called 911. If they had, he would have lived. So, when they chose not to, and instead dragged him around and put him in a room alone, they didn't just fail to get help their actions contributed to his death.
With JR, if you host a party and provide alcohol to minors, aren't you responsible for the possible consequences (not just the foreseeable ones) if something happens to them?
There is approx. 1 to 1.5 hours for which Lauren is unaccounted.
We don't have any activity from the time MB takes her to JR's (let's say 3:15-ish) to the time JR says he called friends to come get her which is 4:15. He says she walked away at 4:30.
This is the darkest hour. What happened during this time?
Edited to add: Does anyone know of descriptive info that MB or JR has given as to what they did while Lauren was at their apartment?
We don't have any activity from the time MB takes her to JR's (let's say 3:15-ish) to the time JR says he called friends to come get her which is 4:15. He says she walked away at 4:30.Snipped by me.
The suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. It also states he was there when JR made the calls(4:15). The question for me would be how long after he returned home did he take LS back to JR's. How long would it have taken to put CR to bed and walk LS over to JR's? What was she doing while they were trying to locate friends?
We don't have any activity from the time MB takes her to JR's (let's say 3:15-ish) to the time JR says he called friends to come get her which is 4:15. He says she walked away at 4:30.Snipped by me.
The suit filed states MB returned home from JR's at 3:30. It also states he was there when JR made the calls(4:15). The question for me would be how long after he returned home did he take LS back to JR's. How long would it have taken to put CR to bed and walk LS over to JR's? What was she doing while they were trying to locate friends?
Thanks, I'll have to have another look at the filing.
Interesting that MB's storyline is the one that has changed the most in the past two years.
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