IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[Ixchel13]

What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?

driving past the cameras did not have to be an option, and they were(if even were there at the time)/are, pointed south. JW lived due east, and then only one and a half blocks, south of 10th. to understand, and i think you know this, the blocks aren't perfectly synchronized and don't exactly match the 100 block measurements. anyway, he would not have to pass Morton and 10th cameras to get home. And, who's to say they don't have him on camera in his car instead of being home? It's been all over MSM, SM, PI's interview, LE audios, that he's a suspect because his story, his alibi, doesn't match up. He wasn't where he was said he was, it's pretty plain that they think that. Yes, he could be
innocent and still not have been where he said he was. But why not just tell the truth before then lawyering up?

 

[akh]

I'm not an expert on cell phone communication, and I don't known the particulars of Bloomington's setup, but is seems to me that where JW's apartment was (if it was around where I think it was), was sufficiently close to her last known whereabouts that it likely would have meant communicating with the same cell phone tower, in either case, in which case tracking him by his phone would be unable to distinguish between his apartment and the likely area of her abduction or demise. But I could be wrong.

LE might have something with one or more of the PsOI's phones pinging in an area that it shouldn't have, according to their statements. But I suppose that if it was limited enough they would worry about the argument of error being made at this time. But if a body was ever to be found in that general area or route, then it could change everything. Since LE isn't saying anything, it's hard to deduce if the phone pings glean any questionable or potential useful info or not.
Apparently there is nothing that LE feels it can act on at this time. Maybe if something in the case changed, it would then change the way they treat whatever info they might have that they could be sitting on.

But at this time, from the outside looking in, I don't think we can say this person or that person can't be guilty because they weren't incriminated by their phone. We're just not privy to that info or what might be a trump card LE has in their hand waiting for the right moment to play it.

It's just the same as the video evidence and saying this person can't be involved or they'd be seen on video. That's simply a non-starter when we know something happened, and whatever happened happened off video (or the video evidence is not conclusive enough for LE to act on it). Maybe someone is on video when they shouldn't be, but not showing enough to be conclusive to involvement or even conclusively identified, so without a development in the case LE is just sitting on that as well. Things we don't know don't mean evidence doesn't exist that could point any direction. But pointing and making a case are two different things.

 

[Ven]

Just days after the disappearance, Wolff and his father barged into Rossman and Beth’s apartment, investigators learned.

Jesse Wolff was confrontational, and Beth said he broke up a potential fight.

“I hope you rot in jail!” Wolff is said to have shouted as he left.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/

What is it that JW knows to assume that CR has done something criminally wrong to LS to think he is going to end up in jail?

Methinks JW doth protest too much.

 

[Ven]

Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television.

The Knicks were not playing. They were eliminated in late April 2011 playoffs, and LS disappeared the first week of June.

Also, when HT or whoever said LS went to watch a basketball game at a party at 12:30 a.m. ... any game would have been long over by that time.

 

[Ven]

I'm guessing some if not all knew something may potentially be going on since the previous week when she camped in the infield with friends including JR, DB, and CR but not JW. I agree with your concerns that JW is texting his Dad in the wee hours of the morning (NY time) to tell him Lauren is going to bed??? Ok. Then conveniently states he's going to bed (2:30am) right around the time of the altercation and witnesses that saw CR being inappropriate. All this and nobody contacts JW? He doesn't care and stays home in bed? Don't buy it, never have. I think he got in his car...went looking for her, waited outside and watched until she left, picked her up angry, and lost his head. I think he did THEN call his Dad in a panic and his parents know exactly how that night went down and their anger comes from what they perceive is their sons life in shambles or possibly ruined because SHE caused all of it with her drug use and going out without him. With no witnesses and no video, and no Lauren, we may never know.

ITA that it's weird ... why would JW be texting his father in the middle of the night? What college aged frat boy is ever doing that?!?!

Also, I'm really starting to get bothered by the way everyone else is handling LS's and JW's "relationship". It's pretty clear to me (and others) that something else was going on. Either they had broken up, or she was cheating on him, or maybe they both cheated on each other, or had an open relationship, or whatever ... but it seems everyone involved is trying to misrepresent the status of everyone's relationship to each other at the time of LS's disappearance, and I don't think that's helpful at all.

 

[Ven]

What's the hypothetical scenario here? JW sits in his car parked somewhere on College? He theoretically doesn't have his phone with him, and didn't drive past the cameras at 10th and Morton. Then as "luck" would have it, she actually emerges from 5N and walks by where he grabs her?

The hypothetical scenario is that LS and JW had recently broken up, or LS was cheating on him or causing JW to feel jealous and enraged in some way. He could have been very emotional and angry that she was with another guy, and perhaps kept tabs on her or even stalked her later that night. Eventually she leaves 5N and he's lying in wait for her and she's never seen again.

Alternatively, she may have been unable to leave 5N on her own, in which case JR's statement comes under suspicion. It's *possible* he lied about watching her leave without ever being involved in her disappearance ...
1) he could have not been paying attention to her or only watched her stumble out the door, then panicked when interviewed and because he knew she did leave, wanted to absolve himself of any responsibility and said she left able-bodied

2) he could have been in another part of the apartment not paying attention, or passed out, and one of his guests was the last to see LS, and he's covering for that person

It seems hard to believe JR watched LS walk off on her own, given the condition she was in. But it also seems hard to believe anything from JW's camp. It was known that CR was interested in hooking up with LS ... LS isn't going to use drugs with him and wander off with him if he's creeping on her and she's uncomfortable, so there had to be some mutual interest there ... and it's implausible that JW would be OK with his girlfriend wandering off with a guy who everyone knew was trying to hook up with her.

I've been posting this same line in these threads since June 2011. Why is it being represented that JW and LS were in a great relationship? Why was JW representing that LS was the love of his life? If that was the case, why would he be OK with LS wandering off with dirtbag guy who's trying to hook up with her? It doesn't add up AT ALL.

 

[Ros]

The hypothetical scenario is that LS and JW had recently broken up, or LS was cheating on him or causing JW to feel jealous and enraged in some way. He could have been very emotional and angry that she was with another guy, and perhaps kept tabs on her or even stalked her later that night. Eventually she leaves 5N and he's lying in wait for her and she's never seen again.

Alternatively, she may have been unable to leave 5N on her own, in which case JR's statement comes under suspicion. It's *possible* he lied about watching her leave without ever being involved in her disappearance ...
1) he could have not been paying attention to her or only watched her stumble out the door, then panicked when interviewed and because he knew she did leave, wanted to absolve himself of any responsibility and said she left able-bodied

2) he could have been in another part of the apartment not paying attention, or passed out, and one of his guests was the last to see LS, and he's covering for that person

It seems hard to believe JR watched LS walk off on her own, given the condiution she was in. But it also seems hard to believe anything from JW's camp. It was known that CR was interested in hooking up with LS ... LS isn't going to use drugs with him and wander off with him if he's creeping on her and she's uncomfortable, so there had to be some mutual interest there ... and it's implausible that JW would be OK with his girlfriend wandering off with a guy who everyone knew was trying to hook up with her.

I've been posting this same line in these threads since June 2011. Why is it being represented that JW and LS were in a great relationship? Why was JW representing that LS was the love of his life? If that was the case, why would he be OK with LS wandering off with dirtbag guy who's trying to hook up with her? It doesn't add up AT ALL.

The idea that they were in a great relationship comes mainly from what RS and CS said, and from what AWG posted on PT. I think JW's brother also posted something in social media to that effect. However, family members were distant and may not be in a position to know, and we cannot be sure that the person who posted as AWG was really JW's roommate.

We do not know when JW became aware that LS was with CR.

 

[imkeylime]

"ITA that it's weird ... why would JW be texting his father in the middle of the night? What college aged frat boy is ever doing that?!?!

"Also, I'm really starting to get bothered by the way everyone else is handling LS's and JW's "relationship". It's pretty clear to me (and others) that something else was going on. Either they had broken up, or she was cheating on him, or maybe they both cheated on each other, or had an open relationship, or whatever ... but it seems everyone involved is trying to misrepresent the status of everyone's relationship to each other at the time of LS's disappearance, and I don't think that's helpful at all."

Edited to add: So what follows is in response to the post by Ven above. IDK what I did wrong, but I somehow didn't include the post! Maybe a mod can fix it? If not, hopefully this makes sense!

You raise a good point about JW texting his father in the middle of the night. I hadn't thought about it before, but unless they were sharing commentary on the game, which probably isn't the case since dad had the game in question wrong, I don't get it. It's not like dad had to check up on JW at this point.

TBH, I'm one of the bunch who doesn't think it's that weird that LS was out with CR, regardless of her relationship status with JW, because IMO, it could have been for partying purposes. But ... you've made me think more about the possibility that something was amiss between them. Another option would be that she was rethinking the relationship and he suspected it, whether she'd vocalized that or not. Just a thought.

So if that's the case, maybe someone alerted JW in person via text message about CR coming on to LS at SW or about seeing them together at Sports. Word travels fast and it might have been via face to face contact and not just a text. That said, if someone did tell him personally, perhaps that person would have been interviewed (i.e., if it was a roommate, etc.). Regardless, I agree that the dad texting scenario is weird. Good catch.

 

[akh]

If someone did tell JW about the confrontation, or CR being with LS that night, etc. there's no guarantee he/she would give LE that information out of concern that it might focus LE on JW (and the person with the info would either believe JW couldn't be involved and so not want to focus LE on him, or suspect he is involved and not want LE to find that out to protect JW).

And of course, since we know that CR/LS had met prior and that there was the Indy 500 weekend (and we in the public have no way of knowing if there was more than that as far as connecting goes), then it's not much of a leap to think that JW could've known and/or suspected something and already had names and addresses and could've been stalking her and/or staking out 5N just to try and catch LS in the act or in a lie. Especially if she wasn't contacting him as he wanted or expected. Or she could happen to go to JW, if able, after a night of partying and that could've angered him (seeing her messed up and knowing she'd been out with a guy who had designs on her for example). So direct communication about the SW confrontation or LS and CR being together that night wouldn't exactly be required to connect JW to her disappearance.

It wouldn't matter what the reality of CR and LS' relationship was. It would only matter what JW saw the relation as.

We've beaten the idea of 5N to death and came up with nothing but speculation and conspiracies to hold it together. OTOH, a scenario like this with JW involves no conspiracy really and fits into a statistically high category of plausibility as to a suspect.

If we could scratch 5N off the list then JW would immediately jump to the top of the list and by a wide margin (barring an airtight alibi that we don't know about). But we're probably not going to soon (if ever) know how capable she was of leaving 5N of her own accord to dismiss or lower the suspicion on 5N. Not unless or until videos are ever released so we can see for ourselves her condition.

 

[doubtingthomas]

There have been discussions here on when JW found out LS was with CR. How do we know that LS did not tell him in her last phone activity that she was going out. Maybe to a party at 5N. We have only heard from other sources that she was staying in and he said to call if she woke up. This could be his alibi trying to make himself look like the loving boyfriend.

It was also posted in earlier discussions that LS was staying till JW finished classes and she was riding back with him. How do we know she didn't change her mind and told him this prior to going to the 500. Maybe she had broken off the relationship prior to the 500. It would be interesting to know if they got together any time after the 500 and before she went missing.

 

[Ven]

Has it ever been reported, when was the last time LS and JW saw each other (prior to LS disappearing)? And under what circumstances?

Or alternatively, when was the last time they saw each other with independent witnesses present? And under what circumstances?

 

[CarlK90245]

I just realized that Israel Keyes had rented a car in Des Plaines, Illinois on June 2, 2011, and returned it on June 15, 2011. He had multiple toll road transactions in Indiana on June 3, and eventually ended up in Vermont on June 8, where he murdered Bill and Lorraine Currier.

Lauren disappeared the same day that he rented the car (June 2, 2011). Bloomington Indiana is 270 miles from DesPlaines. Keyes' MO was to rent a car, drive hundreds of miles, commit murders, and then return the car and fly off to a different part of the country, or back home to Alaska. 270 miles is nothing considering his Modus Operandi.

This is a long thread, so I don't know if this possibility has been discussed already. I did a quick search through this thread for the name Keyes, and nothing came up. But perhaps he was referred to by his initials IK.


ETA: I now see that this angle has already been discussed a few times in the previous 32 Lauren Spierer threads.

 

[elmorejames]

Police were also seen entering the home of Lauren’s boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, in the 600 block of E. Ninth Street around 5 p.m. Wednesday, the newspaper reported.

http://www.examiner.com/article/lau...search-dogs-at-homes-of-4-persons-of-interest

How far was his apartment in relation to the train tracks or wherever "Tallboy" heard the scream?

 

[elmorejames]

The more and more the discussion of JW corresponding with his father has been brought up, the more I tend to give it thought. Perhaps JW and his father had been talking and plainly discussing plans for his father (AW) to arrive in Bloomington to retrieve both JW and LS after JW's classes ended. During these convos maybe JW expresses to his dad about the current state of the relationship and JW expresses some anger even some depression over LS and other guys. Maybe his father keeps checking in to see how he is doing and maybe there is discussion from JW that he doesn't want LS even being in the car on the way home to NY. The whole parenting thing could have been to convince him to patch things up as its the right thing to do to give her a ride since you told her parents you would. During this time which could have been a few days to a week even, JW is really being talked off the ledge from doing stupid by his father, we don't know! And maybe he does snap after days of being humiliated and he goes to find her and things go south. Maybe he was being coached by his father from NY after the fact, what to do, what to say? The whole looking for her, tracking down HT in class and getting key and then reporting her missing so soon? Calling LS's parents?! Perhaps JWs dad was channeling is his inner Ray Donovan until he got on the scene to express anger toward CR and the take his son out of the fire?

Just ranting and thinking out loud, but the more I think about it with his parents actions and statements the more it beings to makes sense.

 

[imkeylime]

^What you describe could definitely help explain JW parents' animosity toward LS. It seems weird to me that their anger just sprang up out of nowhere. If there was prior frustration involving JW and LS it would make a lot more sense.

 

[Ven]

What's the timeline when JW reported LS missing? I'm going back to my memory of 3 years ago but IIRC didn't he report her missing in the afternoon? Having spent 7 years in college myself, how did he know she was missing and not running errands or something? Especially when ... according to his defenders ... he wasn't too worried about her wandering off with guys while intoxicated and possibly using drugs at 2 a.m. ... but at 2 p.m. in the afternoon when she could be out shopping or seeing friends he suddenly gets worried? Anybody in that group must have known by then that she was with CR the previous night ... why not go and ask CR or JR or any of those people if they had seen LS? Did JW ask around first? Did he talk to HT plus call around others? Seems incredible that you would presume someone missing after only talking to one person.

 

[akh]

Did he talk to HT plus call around others? Seems incredible that you would presume someone missing after only talking to one person.

If there was a landline in the apartment did he bother calling it? Did he try and go to SW and knock on the door or buzz in (or whatever the protocol is there) or did he immediately call HT for the key (somehow knowing LS wouldn't be there to let him in)? Once inside the apartment, how was he able to know she hadn't been home, slept, got dressed and left already? Maybe went looking for her phone... or went shopping... or went to get a new phone... or went for lunch/breakfast?

If there are answers to these questions they have never been publicly released.

 

[Ros]

If there was a landline in the apartment did he bother calling it? Did he try and go to SW and knock on the door or buzz in (or whatever the protocol is there) or did he immediately call HT for the key (somehow knowing LS wouldn't be there to let him in)? Once inside the apartment, how was he able to know she hadn't been home, slept, got dressed and left already? Maybe went looking for her phone... or went shopping... or went to get a new phone... or went for lunch/breakfast?

If there are answers to these questions they have never been publicly released.

. It has been over three years, so I may not have this right, but there was speculation that JW was the only one who knew about the long QT syndrome. He checked the apartment and noted that she had not taken medication, perhaps in a daily tray of some sort. At that point he realized that something was very wrong.

 

[Ven]

. It has been over three years, so I may not have this right, but there was speculation that JW was the only one who knew about the long QT syndrome. He checked the apartment and noted that she had not taken medication, perhaps in a daily tray of some sort. At that point he realized that something was very wrong.

How would he know whether she took medicine or not? If you grab a pill bottle and there are 47 pills in it, how would you know whether there were 48 or not the day before?

Unless he was taking daily inventory for her (lol) I'd like an explanation of how he could possibly know whether she took any meds or not.

 

[Jmoose]

Why, if they were broken up (speculation), would JW be the one to report Lauren missing? Shouldn't somebody else (like a roommate) be more likely to do it if the couple was on the outs?