Intruder DNA is actually Burke’s friends

[David Rogers]

What is the “intruder “ DNA composition is actually a composite of Burke’s friends who we now know were over the house Christmas Day? Could be a transfer off the floor or another item.

 

[UKGuy]

What is the “intruder “ DNA composition is actually a composite of Burke’s friends who we now know were over the house Christmas Day? Could be a transfer off the floor or another item.

David Rogers,
It could be.

If you assume the Bloomingdale's size-12's were clean on JonBenet, i.e. unused, unwashed, etc, then what might the transfer medium be?

I also assume the non-ramsey dna did not originate from JonBenet and that the white-gap top is different from what she wore earlier in the day?

So the non-ramsey dna did not arrive via JonBenet's blood, it must have been artifact transfer to her underwear?

Suggesting the non-ramsey dna arrived by transfer as she was being redressed in the size-12's?

The remaining possibility is direct contact transfer of the non-ramsey dna earlier in the day.

Here is Patsy claiming JonBenet did not shower or bath prior to the White's Christmas Party:
1998 BPD Patsy Interview Excerpt

...

12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have

13 washed her hands at a particular time?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she

15 rarely washed her hands.

16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or

17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have

18 that slimy stuff all over?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is

20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.

21 I don't know.

22 THOMAS HANEY: Getting her ready

23 that early afternoon, four or five o'clock, did

24 you give her a bath, did she take a bath?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so.

0196

1 THOMAS HANEY: You don't think you

2 gave her one?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.

4 THOMAS HANEY: Do you think she

5 took one?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, she didn't take

7 one (INAUDIBLE).

8 THOMAS HANEY: Showers?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.

10 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have

11 washed her hands before getting ready to go?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: I'd like to think

13 so, but I just don't know for sure.

14 TRIP DeMUTH: At the Whites, did

15 somebody say, oh, here, get ready for dinner?

16 Did somebody tell her to go wash her hands at

17 the Whites, do you remember anything about that?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

19 TRIP DeMUTH: How was she about

20 washing her hands?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Just typical kid,

22 you know, if she can get by with it, she

23 wouldn't do it. You know, but I was pretty much

24 always (INAUDIBLE). (Gesturing.)

25 TRIP DeMUTH: Had you referred to

0197

1 that at all Christmas Day?

....

The questions relate to the heart shape drawn on JonBenet's hand.

For non-ramsey dna transfer it rules in the children that were over on Christmas Day showing off their gifts, etc.

The most likely source for the non-ramsey dna is JonBenet's size-6 underwear that she wore to the White's party, which have gone missing, as have her pink pajama bottoms, any coincidence?

Including whatever was used to wipe JonBenet down, also if JR was responsible for this then simple cross transfer from his clothing might be added.

The kids can easily be ruled out, three boys I think, with a standard dna test.

.

 

[proust20]

We must acknowledge that much of the evidence collected by LE remains locked away. This would include additional DNA material. That said, the DNA evidence is just another bit of data that was collected during the investigation. DNA traces do not equate with guilt; nor, do they explain away all the complexities which we already know. If this were not so, then it should be logical to conclude that all the depositors of DNA found on the size 12s were participants in the murder. More important then the DNA traces is why JB was wearing the size 12s, which were then covered over with the long johns. To be a consistent argument, there should be the same DNA on the long johns as well.

DNA Mystery Man is the last straw to which Team R clings desperately. There has not been any match with the national DNA base, which one hopes is run efficiently.

The heart on JB's palm is something that generally receives little attention. Its significance is puzzling, like so much else. A farewell message, a final "I Love you"? Several Sharpies were taken by LE from the home. The RN was not written in red ink. The heart had to be drawn with another. (Of course, this assumes it was drawn and not painted with PR's art supplies.) As the heart would have been apparent during the White's party, it had to be put there afterwards. Another flaw in the R's timeline. Before the kidnapping went awry, the intruder fed her pineapple and drew on the heart in a darkened house?

 

[UKGuy]

We must acknowledge that much of the evidence collected by LE remains locked away. This would include additional DNA material. That said, the DNA evidence is just another bit of data that was collected during the investigation. DNA traces do not equate with guilt; nor, do they explain away all the complexities which we already know. If this were not so, then it should be logical to conclude that all the depositors of DNA found on the size 12s were participants in the murder. More important then the DNA traces is why JB was wearing the size 12s, which were then covered over with the long johns. To be a consistent argument, there should be the same DNA on the long johns as well.

DNA Mystery Man is the last straw to which Team R clings desperately. There has not been any match with the national DNA base, which one hopes is run efficiently.

The heart on JB's palm is something that generally receives little attention. Its significance is puzzling, like so much else. A farewell message, a final "I Love you"? Several Sharpies were taken by LE from the home. The RN was not written in red ink. The heart had to be drawn with another. (Of course, this assumes it was drawn and not painted with PR's art supplies.) As the heart would have been apparent during the White's party, it had to be put there afterwards. Another flaw in the R's timeline. Before the kidnapping went awry, the intruder fed her pineapple and drew on the heart in a darkened house?

proust20,
The heart on JonBenet's hand likely arrived sometime Christmas Day during the kids playing with each other, before setting out for the White's party?

Patsy does not want to get into JonBenet washing and dressing for the White's party as that would mean she would know what underwear JonBenet had worn to the White's, so she develops ramnesia.

More important then the DNA traces is why JB was wearing the size 12s, which were then covered over with the long johns. To be a consistent argument, there should be the same DNA on the long johns as well.

I agree, but since the long johns belonged to Burke, we might expect his touch dna, or dna of any type to be found on the longjohns.

The intereresting aspect is that BPD have not released all the DNA lab test results, just those that look good for the Ramsey's.

More important then the DNA traces is why JB was wearing the size 12s, which were then covered over with the long johns.

She was wearing the size-12's because Burke Ramsey thought they were a good replacement for the size-6 underear, plus they were all Bloomingdale's.

To stop them falling down Burke Ramsey probably added the long johns. His motivation was to get JonBenet dressed in some clothes.

Anyone who disagrees must explain why the parents would inject their son Burke into a homicide staging?

.

 

[proust20]

Certainly, the heart could have been drawn on the palm before the White's party. LE must have looked into this with those who attended. According to the Bonita papers, PR often would draw the heart on JB's hand as a sort of memento. I do not recall PR adding this detail about her activities in interviews. As several Sharpies were taken as evidence, they were searching for the correct red one?

IMO the event of Christmas is intrinsic and not merely coincidental to the murder. The Holiday season is stressful for many. The pot boiled over for the R family at this time. BDI has the advantage of explaining much of the CS and the nebulous GJ indictments. BR's motive would have been jealousy? ("She was always flaunting herself.") The gift giving to JB stoked these feelings? JB received three pieces of gold jewelry from the extended family. This would have registered as 'expensive' to a child. Then, there are the bikes for both JB and PR. The one meant for BR remains obscured.

BR was both incurious and over-informed. In his interview with Dr. Bernhard, he provides his own scenario. She asked if he knew what happened. He answered "She was killed." However, JR had told him that JB had gone to heaven; and so, he could have used similar language as a response. To split hairs, this also is not "She was murdered." or "She died."

For the sake of argument only, let's for the moment take BR's outline to Dr. B as actually speaking of himself. Firstly, I do not believe that anyone went to bed after arriving back home. The parents were on the third floor and the kids in the kitchen? ("Why couldn't I hear my baby?") BR's simmering hostility towards his sister has reached critical mass, and he decides on retribution? He knows that she finds the basement a scary place, making it a suitable location. He quietly leads her down there at the point of his Swiss army knife (his former present) with the Maglite (former present to household ) in the other hand to guide the descent in the frightening darkness? Then he bashes her head with it? His previous striking of her with the golf club did not result in a serious injury. Thus, he would not expect there to be one at this time either. After a bit, it's apparent that JB isn't getting up from the floor. He turns on the lights and sees no head wound nor blood? He gets his toy train track and pokes her in an effort to revive?

At some point, he returns upstairs and confesses to his parent(s)? This would explain the time gap between head blow and fatal strangulation. The parent(s) discover the unconscious JB and wrongly assume that she is dead. A plan is developed to cover up what BR had done with "Mind Reader" serving as a primer? PR foolishly incorporates her paint brush in the ligature and applies it, not aware that JB is still alive and leaves behind her fiber evidence. Then, she writes the RN with JR's approval, and they call for legal counsel, which advises the 911 call? "I am the mother." is not "her mother", and could logically refer to BR as well.

This is leaving out the redressing. But hey - I don't have all the answers! To be clear, this is just speculation. I am not firmly BDI. Loose ends prevail inevitably which ever way one turns.

 

[UKGuy]

Certainly, the heart could have been drawn on the palm before the White's party. LE must have looked into this with those who attended. According to the Bonita papers, PR often would draw the heart on JB's hand as a sort of memento. I do not recall PR adding this detail about her activities in interviews. As several Sharpies were taken as evidence, they were searching for the correct red one?

IMO the event of Christmas is intrinsic and not merely coincidental to the murder. The Holiday season is stressful for many. The pot boiled over for the R family at this time. BDI has the advantage of explaining much of the CS and the nebulous GJ indictments. BR's motive would have been jealousy? ("She was always flaunting herself.") The gift giving to JB stoked these feelings? JB received three pieces of gold jewelry from the extended family. This would have registered as 'expensive' to a child. Then, there are the bikes for both JB and PR. The one meant for BR remains obscured.

BR was both incurious and over-informed. In his interview with Dr. Bernhard, he provides his own scenario. She asked if he knew what happened. He answered "She was killed." However, JR had told him that JB had gone to heaven; and so, he could have used similar language as a response. To split hairs, this also is not "She was murdered." or "She died."

For the sake of argument only, let's for the moment take BR's outline to Dr. B as actually speaking of himself. Firstly, I do not believe that anyone went to bed after arriving back home. The parents were on the third floor and the kids in the kitchen? ("Why couldn't I hear my baby?") BR's simmering hostility towards his sister has reached critical mass, and he decides on retribution? He knows that she finds the basement a scary place, making it a suitable location. He quietly leads her down there at the point of his Swiss army knife (his former present) with the Maglite (former present to household ) in the other hand to guide the descent in the frightening darkness? Then he bashes her head with it? His previous striking of her with the golf club did not result in a serious injury. Thus, he would not expect there to be one at this time either. After a bit, it's apparent that JB isn't getting up from the floor. He turns on the lights and sees no head wound nor blood? He gets his toy train track and pokes her in an effort to revive?

At some point, he returns upstairs and confesses to his parent(s)? This would explain the time gap between head blow and fatal strangulation. The parent(s) discover the unconscious JB and wrongly assume that she is dead. A plan is developed to cover up what BR had done with "Mind Reader" serving as a primer? PR foolishly incorporates her paint brush in the ligature and applies it, not aware that JB is still alive and leaves behind her fiber evidence. Then, she writes the RN with JR's approval, and they call for legal counsel, which advises the 911 call? "I am the mother." is not "her mother", and could logically refer to BR as well.

This is leaving out the redressing. But hey - I don't have all the answers! To be clear, this is just speculation. I am not firmly BDI. Loose ends prevail inevitably which ever way one turns.

proust20,
IMO, Christmas is intrinsic to the murder because it offers the opportunity to JonBenet's killer, one not afforded at other times.

If you think JonBenet was sexually assaulted then you have the underlying motivation.

JonBenet's death was not planned as the disorganized staging reveals.

The location for JonBenet's initial assault is likely to be her bedroom, unless she was sharing Burke's bedroom?

The case could be JDI with Patsy assisting. Yet why would the parents inject their son into a homicide staging along with unsuitable clothing, when everything required is available in JonBenet's bedroom?

The staging is intended to reflect that of JonBenet normally dressed for bedtime. The size-12's and Burke's long johns fail to accomplish this.

So the parents fail on staging 101 as there are red flags present.

It's safe to assume the parents did not redress JonBenet. Suggesting Burke Ramsey was responsible for this.

The parents likely arrived at the crime-scene (staged) late that morning, leaving them little choice but to re-locate JonBenet to the wine-cellar and sketch a ransom note, in the hope of obscuring which Ramsey actually killed JonBenet?

In other words your over-informed Burke Ramsey overplayed his hand, understandable in someone so young, he thought the size-12's were OK, and his long johns appropriate, ie. JonBenet is dressed.

We know why they are red flags, he did not, this is what let him down. The confirmation of this is in his interview with Dr. Bernhard, where he outlines what happened to JonBenet, i.e. he offers a sequential narrative that he cannot know anything about, assuming he is not involved.

Burke answering "She was killed." is redundant as you can say the same about President Kennedy.

i.e. Burke had an alternative narrative to the one that actually took place, this is the one he can discuss publicly, the other one is buried deep in the recesses of his mind!

Over-informed indeed.

.

 

[proust20]

UKGuy,

I do believe that SA was the motivation. However, with this in mind, I also believe that this is the weak link in BDI; and so, I avoided the mention of it in order to maintain a less convoluted analysis concerning BR's narrative to Dr. Bernhard. When she brought up the subject of inappropriate touching with him, BR covered his face with a toy, indicating that he felt uncomfortable. BR could have experienced SA also? His secret that wouldn't be a secret if he told it?

If it really is BDI, the parent(s) could not send him to therapy, as a therapist would be required to report to LE a possible admission of homicide by him during a course of treatment. The seal of Confession would not apply. This lack of needed help contributed to BR's arrested development as evidenced with Dr. Phil?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

I do believe that SA was the motivation. However, with this in mind, I also believe that this is the weak link in BDI; and so, I avoided the mention of it in order to maintain a less convoluted analysis concerning BR's narrative to Dr. Bernhard. When she brought up the subject of inappropriate touching with him, BR covered his face with a toy, indicating that he felt uncomfortable. BR could have experienced SA also? His secret that wouldn't be a secret if he told it?

If it really is BDI, the parent(s) could not send him to therapy, as a therapist would be required to report to LE a possible admission of homicide by him during a course of treatment. The seal of Confession would not apply. This lack of needed help contributed to BR's arrested development as evidenced with Dr. Phil?

proust20,
Good points regarding the SA and Dr. Bernhard.

Given BPD actions we have to assume they knew all about Burke?

It might have been mandated privately that Burke undergo therapy.

This lack of needed help contributed to BR's arrested development as evidenced with Dr. Phil?

Might be, was he a controlling older brother who enjoyed abusing JonBenet?

In the Dr Phil interview Burke was dumb enough to think all he had to do was smile a lot and everything would turn out fine?

He was given a scripted question and answer routine to follow and failed big time, because his innate sense of certitude kicked in so he blurted out stuff he was never intended to reveal.

Once JR leaves us the focus will be on BR. No amount of money will ever allow him to lead an ordinary life.

.

 

[proust20]

JR abusively shoving BR into the limelight by arranging the Dr. Phil interview is similar to the treatment of JB with the pageants. Marilyn Van Derbur is cogent concerning this issue.

BR could confess at any time without legal consequences (a parallel with OJ to whom PR referred). Ironically, at present, roles may be reversed with child acting as protector of parent. If he craved the attention that JB received, all he has to do now is write his lucrative memoirs: "Read Carefully!" by Burke Ramsey. However, with Dr. Phil, he demonstrated that he is not ready for his close-up. Any admission of guilt after JR's demise might hinder the Estate with civil law suits.

 

[iCandy]

We must acknowledge that much of the evidence collected by LE remains locked away. This would include additional DNA material. That said, the DNA evidence is just another bit of data that was collected during the investigation. DNA traces do not equate with guilt; nor, do they explain away all the complexities which we already know. If this were not so, then it should be logical to conclude that all the depositors of DNA found on the size 12s were participants in the murder. More important then the DNA traces is why JB was wearing the size 12s, which were then covered over with the long johns. To be a consistent argument, there should be the same DNA on the long johns as well.

DNA Mystery Man is the last straw to which Team R clings desperately. There has not been any match with the national DNA base, which one hopes is run efficiently.

The heart on JB's palm is something that generally receives little attention. Its significance is puzzling, like so much else. A farewell message, a final "I Love you"? Several Sharpies were taken by LE from the home. The RN was not written in red ink. The heart had to be drawn with another. (Of course, this assumes it was drawn and not painted with PR's art supplies.) As the heart would have been apparent during the White's party, it had to be put there afterwards. Another flaw in the R's timeline. Before the kidnapping went awry, the intruder fed her pineapple and drew on the heart in a darkened house?

I think the heart looks like this. It’s Arabic for infidel.