Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There is no doubt that evidence was destroyed or contaminated. There were just too many people in that house and allowing the father to search alone without the police, When he should have had an officer with him to make sure any evidence was properly handled.

They made a mess from the first day. There is no telling what was missed, or destroyed.

 

[Roy23]

Okay Guys - I'm going to say this plainly and simply. I'm not getting on to anyone here - just setting the parameters of this thread.

You can discuss the evidence. That's important. BUT if your discussion is only to show that it must have been the Ramseys' that committed this crime, then don't post it. This isn't the thread for that. This is the thread to discuss how the evidence might point to an intruder or someone other than the Ramseys. If you don't think that is possible, then this is not the thread for you. Take it to one of the other threads, like the RDI thread.

Any snark or attacks will get you a TO.

This is an intriguing case with several options/solutions still on the table - as evidenced by the fact that the case remains unsolved. If you don't want to explore other ideas - that's fine. That's okay. But don't prevent others from doing so.

Salem

Thank You Salem!!!

 

[Roy23]

John Ramsey moved the body and contaminated the crime scene. Patsy threw herself on JonBenet and a blanket found upstairs was used to cover her & further contaminated her body.

Police fault here again. The responsibilty of the crime scene falls on them only.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IMO Patsy was a narcissist obsessed with presenting as picture perfect.

Narcissists do not view their children as individuals with their own thoughts, feelings and opinions but rather extensions of themselves.

Patsy was far from the picture perfect image she projected. She was messy. She couldn't even remember when she last bathed JonBenet. She allowed anyone within ear shot to respond to her daughters calls from the bathroom that she needed wiping. She was detached from both of her children and when JonBenet started voicing her own opinions Patsy struggled with that.

So when you say she loved that child, I do not believe she loved her in a healthy way.... Instead she loved her like only a narcissist does.

I don't believe any of this has anything to do with love. Messy people love their kids. My kids can be clean and days they are filthy from having a great day of play.

That is not detaching. That is being comfortable about the people she had around her kids. There is nothing that says she did not love them. There are people on hoarders that are just living in the most filthy conditions and love their kids..

I just don't think the two things mean anything. She loved that little girl.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Police fault here again. The responsibilty of the crime scene falls on them only.

Yes. There is no one to blame but them for the mess of that day. To me it seems like since they made such a debacle out of it, they have been pushing fingers at the R's so to take blame away from the mess they made.

 

[2 percent]

Police fault here again. The responsibilty of the crime scene falls on them only.

So you think the house should have been shut down for a kidnapping? That's not in the rule book, the kidnappers were going to call the house and it couldn't be locked down as a crime scene so no one could answer the phone. Again, the timeline needs to be preserved in discussion.

 

[Roy23]

Yes. There is no one to blame but them for the mess of that day. To me it seems like since they made such a debacle out of it, they have been pushing fingers at the R's so to take blame away from the mess they made.

Well I think they wanted to do a good job they just didn't have the experience or messed up in this case. The note written from the house is something that they couldn't get past as well especially since the FBI playbook pointed to the Ramsey's in that scenario. Combine that together along with media leaks and ongoing issues with the DA's office and you get Combustion.

 

[2 percent]

There is no doubt that evidence was destroyed or contaminated. There were just too many people in that house and allowing the father to search alone without the police, When he should have had an officer with him to make sure any evidence was properly handled.

They made a mess from the first day. There is no telling what was missed, or destroyed.

That seems circular to me. Evidence must have been destroyed because the scene was not properly handled and there's no telling what (unspecified and presumed) evidence was destroyed. For you to state evidence was destroyed you must have an idea what evidence was there but was destroyed.

I ask again, why do you think evidence was destroyed and not merely compromised? Because the actions taken by JR do not necessitate destruction but does heavily suggest, if not assure, compromise. And yes there is doubt that evidence was destroyed.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That seems circular to me. Evidence must have been destroyed because the scene was not properly handled and there's no telling what (unspecified and presumed) evidence was destroyed. For you to state evidence was destroyed you must have an idea what evidence was there but was destroyed.

I ask again, why do you think evidence was destroyed and not merely compromised? Because the actions taken by JR do not necessitate destruction but does heavily suggest, if not assure, compromise. And yes there is doubt that evidence was destroyed.

Evidence that pointed to an intruder, yes. I believe there was most likely evidence that was destroyed or ignored.

 

[Roy23]

So you think the house should have been shut down for a kidnapping? That's not in the rule book, the kidnappers were going to call the house and it couldn't be locked down as a crime scene so no one could answer the phone. Again, the timeline needs to be preserved in discussion.

They house should have been contained until a full investigation was done for the kidnapping. That means sealing off and searching everywhere in the entire house. Checking for prints etc etc. They didn't do a very good job of that. They allowed a cleaning crew to come in to straighten, they allowed Ramsey friends in, and they didn't find the body in the house.

This is a HORRIBLE FAILURE.

The playbook in a kidnapping is to make absolutely 100% certain also that the kidnapper is still not in the house. Please listen to Salem.

 

[2 percent]

They house should have been contained until a full investigation was done for the kidnapping. That means sealing off and searching everywhere in the entire house. Checking for prints etc etc. They didn't do a very good job of that. They allowed a cleaning crew to come in to straighten, they allowed Ramsey friends in, and they didn't find the body in the house.

This is a HORRIBLE FAILURE.

The playbook in a kidnapping is to make absolutely 100% certain also that the kidnapper is still not in the house.

The friends should not have been allowed in, the house should have been searched more thoroughly both initially and later although there was a shortage of personnel. I have agreed with this many times and raised the relevant sight issue with regards to the room JB was found in.

But that's not at issue. The two specific issues have been the statement that evidence was destroyed versus merely contaminated and whether the house should have been shut down during the kidnapping phase.

Please listen to Salem.

You can discuss the evidence.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The friends should not have been allowed in, the house should have been searched more thoroughly both initially and later although there was a shortage of personnel. I have agreed with this many times and raised the relevant sight issue with regards to the room JB was found in.

But that's not at issue. The two specific issues have been the statement that evidence was destroyed versus merely contaminated and whether the house should have been shut down during the kidnapping phase.

They should have locked down the house as soon as they got there. They should have not let anyone out of their sight. They should have done a good and proper search of the house top to bottom. They should have had more officers.. They should have... A LOT.

They let evidence be touched, contaminated, and most likely destroyed.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe any of this has anything to do with love. Messy people love their kids. My kids can be clean and days they are filthy from having a great day of play.

That is not detaching. That is being comfortable about the people she had around her kids. There is nothing that says she did not love them. There are people on hoarders that are just living in the most filthy conditions and love their kids..

I just don't think the two things mean anything. She loved that little girl.

True, but have you ever watched Toddlers and Tiaras? Pasty is no different than those other mothers, except that she probably seemed a little classier.

Pasty wanted to re-live her pageant days by using JonBenet. Dressing the child like a mini Patsy ... The argument over the matching outfits that JonBenet refused to wear. She was close to 7, no longer agreeable and so willing to appease Patsy. (See above) JonBenet wasn't impressed with the doll either. Those are difficult things for a narcissist to deal with.

Remember the drawings and interview Burke gave? He was obviously detached from everyone in the house. JonBenet was Patsy's favorite and everyone knew it. Including Burke. She was the golden child, until she wasn't. Which is very typical in families with narcissistic parents. Age 7... is .... Brb gotta go..

 

[2 percent]

They should have locked down the house as soon as they got there. They should have not let anyone out of their sight. They should have done a good and proper search of the house top to bottom. They should have had more officers.. They should have... A LOT.

They let evidence be touched, contaminated, and most likely destroyed.

It's probably best to ask you to define "locked down" at this point.
Who in? Who out?

 

[Linda7NJ]

So you think the house should have been shut down for a kidnapping? That's not in the rule book, the kidnappers were going to call the house and it couldn't be locked down as a crime scene so no one could answer the phone. Again, the timeline needs to be preserved in discussion.

I agree. At the time it was a kidnapping not a murder when LE arrived. Of course they would seal the entire house.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm in the wrong thread again... Sorry

 

[catswhiskers]

Kidnapping is a dangerous and terrifying crime that often leads to murder. I would think that the house should have most definitely been locked down and treated as any other serious crime scene. Surely searching for clues as to a kidnappers identity, the condition of the victim, points of entry/exit etc. would all be part of the drill for investigators from the outset?

 

[2 percent]

Kidnapping is a dangerous and terrifying crime that often leads to murder. I would think that the house should have most definitely been locked down and treated as any other serious crime scene. Surely searching for clues as to a kidnappers identity, the condition of the victim, points of entry/exit etc. would all be part of the drill for investigators from the outset?

The very first thing is retrieval. Following directions, playing their game.
You never lock down the only phone connected to the parents when the kidnapping is still active.

 

[catswhiskers]

The very first thing is retrieval. Following directions, playing their game.
You never lock down the only phone connected to the parents when the kidnapping is still active.

I don't recall any mention of locking down the phone (I'm pretty sure a phone can be answered from a remote location anyway - I wonder if that technology was available back then). I also don't buy that LE would not usually (and immediately) be very interested in any forensic evidence that would give them information about the identity of any kidnappers, point of entry etc., or the condition of the victim. I just can't see why LE would delay a thorough visual search at least - that could have been done even if the plan had been to keep the Ramseys and their friends close to observe their demeanors and interactions.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't recall any mention of locking down the phone (I'm pretty sure a phone can be answered from a remote location anyway - I wonder if that technology was available back then). I also don't buy that LE would not usually (and immediately) be very interested in any forensic evidence that would give them information about the identity of any kidnappers, point of entry etc., or the condition of the victim. I just can't see why LE would delay a thorough visual search at least - that could have been done even if the plan had been to keep the Ramseys and their friends close to observe their demeanors and interactions.

We've seen here time and time again the lag time in sealing & searching the home in reported abducted/missing children cases