Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Chewy]

To me the RN reads like a power trip for some younger man or a guy who felt inadequate and spent too much of his life watching movies. It seems to me it was written to get out their feelings more than to get cash for JBR. It reads to me like someone wanting to teach JR a thing or two.

It is certainly not what someone would write who was trying to make a murder look like a kidnapping and trying to cover up an accidental death.

It would be short and simple then.

It sounds just like a delusional wild thinker to me. Someone who wants to be powerful but just is not.

This is kind of what makes me pause as well. If RDI why not just write a typical "ransom note" "We have your child....we will call at 10 am " in short obscure sentences. This shows the person had a lot of time to write which could mean they were in the house the whole time.

Oooooon the other hand, as a person who is a long winded writer myself, I can look at Patsy's Christmas Letters and think "This is a person who doesn't jot off a "Merry Christmas from the Ramseys" but writes out, at length, lots of details" So this matches her style of "writing letters." Just an idea.

 

[2 percent]

Hiya, 2percent. Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Other than JonBenét and her body, the RN is the most important piece of evidence. Be sure to study a copy of the original [linked below] so you can catch clues in the handwriting of each word.

The RN was a lengthy revelation of what occurred and the author deeply needed to explain what happened as well as reveal where the body was located.

There was no reason to electronically scan John when Patsy was the one who was scanned for cancer and, according to the RN, their "kidnapped" baby girl was dead from a head injury [in the basement] as a result of something John did that made the kidnapper kill the child.

http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f227/18219d1213072569-jonben-t-ramsey-

The RN begins and ends with John:

Mr. Ramsey,
Listen carefully! and never once mentions or appeals to the mother, Patsy.

Another point is when the author writes that JonBenét is safe and un harmed. The word unharmed is written with a space between un and harmed indicating the child was indeed harmed.

The $118,000.00 points directly to John's bonus representing envy over his fat cat success. The Bible in John's study is open to the Book of Psalms, verse 118.

Changing the bills could reference the change from the bank account to an upper-class attaché to a plain paper bag. Something major has changed in the Ramsey household.

Attaché rhymes with JonBenét.

Attaché's are thought of to be a container that holds secrets information that are chained to the wrists of the agent in charge. JonBenét was bound by her wrists [secrets].

Where the word delivery is scribbled out to represent a chaotic dark mark [in the events leading to the death], it is replaced with the word pick-up. Now, consider what the phrase "pick-up" implies.

"You will be denied her remains" tells us [the police] there is a dead body. Look for her. Look for her where a stray dog might be alone and in the basement.

Immediate execution and beheaded tell us that JonBenet has suffered head injuries and will likely be discovered laying down. Immediately look for her!

"Don't think that killing will be difficult" tells us that the author is surprised with how easy killing was to do when provoked.

"It's up to you now, John!" tells us that John should be the primary focus for the reasons why the crime was committed.

The RN ends with the letter C as in the very dreadful "Big C" = cancer.

On and on and on and on...

OMO

Respectfully...I just don't think people are that deep

 

[THE BUNK]

1. Throwing her down the stairs is to fake an accident. No murder and therefore no murder weapon required.

2. Faking an accident means no intruder, no need for intruder evidence and no police.

3. They could simply lie, lie, and lie some more; plus lawyers and get outs dodge. No worries, eh!

4. They would have had no reason to fear autopsy results as they would have not known what the autopsy would reveal, and: lawyers, lawyers, lawyers.

5. A sexual attack by an intruder does not explain prior abuse. Assuming prior abuse as fact, we do not know what form that abuse took (innocent children playing; daddy up to no good; corporal punishment; or other) and we do not know who was involved in it, and we don’t know who knew about it. So, there is no factual basis for the claim that a sexual attack, or any other act, as needed to cover up prior abuse.

6. In this scenario, the Ramseys would know nothing. Their cover story is that they were sleeping and when they came downstairs that morning, or whenever for why-ever, they found their child laying on the floor at the bottom of the stairs. End of story. Questions? Lie, lie, lie, lawyer up.

7. Do you mean they didn’t have time in the typical RDI scenario? Nonsense. They had all the time they wanted. Insert a two day time frame into the ransom note, call pilot, family, and whoever necessary and say, something terrible has happened, we can’t leave now, we’ll explain why later. Piece of cake.

8. We’re talking about a dead child.
...

AK

2. Then they would be at the mercy of forensics. If the forensics prove she could not have died that way. Then the Ramsey's are lying and their is no other suspect.

3. Lies with no evidence to back them up.

4. There are no lawyers with them in the few minutes since she was murdered. They have to make a decision NOW on what to do. Any layman is going to realize that someone that was bashed in the head is going to look different than someone that fell down the stars. Especially considering none of her other body parts would be broken or bruised...just her Head amazingly. They are also going to wonder why their is no blood at the bottom of the stairs. Which becomes her murder scene.

5. Police could easily theorize that a pedophile who had easy access to her a few months ago, lost access to her recently. With that access stopped, he had to resort to breaking into her home and molesting her for the last time.

6. Unfortunately they know have to lie after the fact. And even worse have to remember what they were supposed to have done during that time. And much worse...Burke has to be interviewed since they can't say that he was asleep at the time! Sure you can trust Patsy to lie, but can you trust Burke to lie for you.

7. They have until the morning only. Once the morning arrives. Calls occur, neighbors start seeing things. Actions that haven't been taken start coming into play. The plan becomes much more riskier if you extend the deadline.

8. You do realize in this scenario that the person she is saying this is a police detective and more than likely paired with an experience child psychologist and social worker? Whether she's lying, delusional or mistaken, the detective is going to ask questions and match the evidence up. Part of which is the story of led up to her getting hit which will be more than enough for them to convict. Who's the court going to believe? A wicked mother and father who conspired to kill their daughter. Or an innocent angel of girl crying and sobbing as she recounts how her mother and father raped her.

BTW, why do you assume everyone knows the law and legal ramifications 5 minutes after they've just committed a murder? You know what wake your significant other at twelve minutes past one and tell them you've just committed a murder and see how well their cover-up plan is!!

 

[THE BUNK]

One thing that puzzles me is why the Ransom note pages were not folded. It's a logical thing for someone to do when transporting them off the pad aand taking them to a further location.

Don't pages torn of a legal pad tend to curl naturally? I'm surprised they didn't just blow away in a gust off the stairs.

It also occurs to me that Patsy Ramsey is the only person that can vouch for the state in which they were found. How do we know she didn't just rip them off the sheet after calling the police?

And why the stairs?...when Jonbenet's bed would be the likely place for the note to be found. Again I cite the pages could simply fly away in a stray gust of movement. Folding the pages together and writing Jon on the back would be much more effective.

Heck this is also another reason not to write a long ransom note. The rest of the pages could be lost. Unless of course you never intended for this ransom note to be placed anywhere.

 

[THE BUNK]

----This is kind of what makes me pause as well. If RDI why not just write a typical "ransom note----

How are the Ramsey's two abiding citizens up till this point----supposed to know what a typical ransom note is supposed to be like? Especially at this late at night after they just killed their daughter.

They wrote whatever came into their minds about what a ransom note might be like. I'm sure if they had internet service like we have know....they might be able to do a quick google search of ransom notes. But back then they only had their own impressions from movies and tv to go off.

 

[THE BUNK]

How do you know what was in JRs bank account? I'd like a link on that.

You got me, Scarlett! I confess!

I killed Jonbenet in the Billiard Room with the Candlestick.

Case closed.

(Just Kidding!)

:floorlaugh:

 

[gramcracker]

edited to delete because this is the IDI thread

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This is kind of what makes me pause as well. If RDI why not just write a typical "ransom note" "We have your child....we will call at 10 am " in short obscure sentences. This shows the person had a lot of time to write which could mean they were in the house the whole time.

Oooooon the other hand, as a person who is a long winded writer myself, I can look at Patsy's Christmas Letters and think "This is a person who doesn't jot off a "Merry Christmas from the Ramseys" but writes out, at length, lots of details" So this matches her style of "writing letters." Just an idea.

The thing is that you are going to try and write as little as possible. You are not going to keep the tablet and the writing utensil. You are going to get rid of it.

 

[2 percent]

...You are not going to keep the tablet and the writing utensil. You are going to get rid of it.

Why wouldn't a kidnapper with a monetary motive or revenge against John motive take the precaution of composing a note before entering the house? You can't guarantee you can find what you need in the limited time you have...it's nonsensical!

There's a couple we've been friends with for years. I've been their housesitter and their catsitter, we live in the same neighborhood and I am in their house at least once a week. I know where they keep their pens because they're on the counter but I can't tell you where a legal pad would be without searching the house. Even an intruder familiar with the family doesn't guarantee familiarity with everything in the house, too. And the more you search, the more time you spend in the house putting you in danger of being caught. The more time you spend searching the greater chance you'll leave evidence of your search behind, too.
That argues well against the basement room, too.

 

[THE BUNK]

Why wouldn't a kidnapper with a monetary motive or revenge against John motive take the precaution of composing a note before entering the house? You can't guarantee you can find what you need in the limited time you have...it's nonsensical!

Especially if he knows the Ramsey's. I imagine he would want to proof read it and narrow it down so that no evidence in certain phrases.

The Ramsey's only have to worry about the police matching the handwriting to either of them. The police would not know immediately if the language style matched either of them.

 

[THE BUNK]

a big problem I have with a revenge motive is that killing JonBenet Ramsey doesn't get rid of John Ramsey.

If John Ramsey is being a pain in the butt to you at work..he's still going to be a pain in the butt because he's still there.

Even if he's emotionally or spiritually hurt by JonBenet's death, that doesn't mean he's going to be nicer to you or stop doing what it was that ticked you off in the first place.

Killing Jonbenet and killing John Ramsey are not exclusive. You can do both! You have the opportunity and the will to kill.

 

[gramcracker]

a stranger intruder couldn't know if other family members were staying over that night in beds right close to JB's room or IN JB's room: JAR or gramma/grampa. or one of BR's or JB's friends. IIRC everyone close enough to know that info was cleared?

 

[THE BUNK]

Even an intruder familiar with the family doesn't guarantee familiarity with everything in the house, too

Excellent point. You have to live with someone for a while and live in a house for a while to know the layout that well.

Even more important he had to live in the house within three months of the murder to know it that well. Houses change. Objects move. This intruder had CURRENT information on not only the Ramsey's, but their routines.

 

[Linda7NJ]

a big problem I have with a revenge motive is that killing JonBenet Ramsey doesn't get rid of John Ramsey.

If John Ramsey is being a pain in the butt to you at work..he's still going to be a pain in the butt because he's still there.

Even if he's emotionally or spiritually hurt by JonBenet's death, that doesn't mean he's going to be nicer to you or stop doing what it was that ticked you off in the first place.

Killing Jonbenet and killing John Ramsey are not exclusive. You can do both! You have the opportunity and the will to kill.

IMO I could see someone really evil and full of revenge killing a child to make the parent suffer a lifetime. But I would expect that person to kill his son, not his daughter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[THE BUNK]

a stranger intruder couldn't know if other family members were staying over that night in beds right close to JB's room or IN JB's room: JAR or gramma/grampa. or one of BR's or JB's friends. IIRC everyone close enough to know that info was cleared?

Good point. How did the intruder know that JAR would be away or even not at the Christmas party? He was a college student. It was Christmas Break. He could be loafing in his bed or necking with a girl on his parents couch. How could he know this Christmas he would be at his mother's?

 

[THE BUNK]

IMO I could see someone really evil and full of revenge killing a child to make the parent suffer a lifetime. But I would expect that person to kill his son, not his daughter.


Yes. I agree. Kill the son. The person that will carry on his name. John would be destroyed. Killing Jonbenet would hurt Patsy more than John.

Interestingly it is more difficult to kidnap Burke than it is JonBenet. You can't carry Burke out as easily as you would JonBenet.

Going after JonBenet only makes sense if you actually trying to kidnap her.

 

[Mama2JML]

a stranger intruder couldn't know if other family members were staying over that night in beds right close to JB's room or IN JB's room: JAR or gramma/grampa. or one of BR's or JB's friends. IIRC everyone close enough to know that info was cleared?

True, but we don't know what might have occurred if someone other than JonBenét was alerted. Perhaps it would have ended like the "Amy" case?... We really cannot be certain the the perp was a complete stranger. He may have been connected to the Ramseys through their circle of friends, associates, employees, etc.

 

[THE BUNK]

True, but we don't know what might have occurred if someone other than JonBenét was alerted. Perhaps it would have ended like the "Amy" case?... We really cannot be certain the the perp was a complete stranger. He may have been connected to the Ramseys through their circle of friends, associates, employees, etc.

He would have to BE one of their circle of friends in order to have this level of knowledge of the house and family. I would argue he would have to be at the Fleet White level of friendship to know this much.

The only reason for him to enter the house before the Ramsey's arrive is to write the ransom letter. That's it. If he has it in his mind that he is willing to risk running into the Ramsey's then he can wait till they get back to commit the break-in. There is no logic advantage he has to breaking into the house earlier than he needs to.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Why wouldn't a kidnapper with a monetary motive or revenge against John motive take the precaution of composing a note before entering the house? You can't guarantee you can find what you need in the limited time you have...it's nonsensical!

There's a couple we've been friends with for years. I've been their housesitter and their catsitter, we live in the same neighborhood and I am in their house at least once a week. I know where they keep their pens because they're on the counter but I can't tell you where a legal pad would be without searching the house. Even an intruder familiar with the family doesn't guarantee familiarity with everything in the house, too. And the more you search, the more time you spend in the house putting you in danger of being caught. The more time you spend searching the greater chance you'll leave evidence of your search behind, too.
That argues well against the basement room, too.

Pretty much everyone has paper and pen. IMO they were there when everyone was out and planned it that way to have time to prepare.
It is just like killers that use knives from the house. Every house has them.

They brought what they knew they needed to have, Duct tape and rope. Everything else they got from the house.

 

[THE BUNK]

Pretty much everyone has paper and pen. IMO they were there when everyone was out and planned it that way to have time to prepare.
It is just like killers that use knives from the house. Every house has them.

They brought what they knew they needed to have, Duct tape and rope. Everything else they got from the house.

Killers use the knives of the home because it prevents any of their own weapons from being tied to them.

Not the case in pen and paper because your handwriting will incriminate you more than the style of paper and pen you use. That's why the old cut and paste letters is so popular in kidnapping.


It's not a matter of having pen and paper it's the matter of planning your action and coming up with a letter that leaves no evidence in a place that you feel safe. The Ramsey house is not a safe place...because someone like the housemaid or JAR could come back at any moment. Hell the Ramsey's could leave the party at any moment. Plus why do you need to enter the house when nobody is there when you have no problem with people being in the house while killing her?