Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[2 percent]

There are plenty of reasons to doubt RDI:

An unsourced male DNA profile, unsourced fibers that were not linked to the home nor the residents, an unsourced human hair on the blanket the victim was wrapped in, animal hairs found on the victim & nowhere else in the home, two shoe prints not linked to the Ramseys, handwriting that wasn't matched to any Ramsey, rope, cord & duct tape not linked to the Ramseys, an unsourced backpack, a bat that did not belong to the Ramseys, a knife found on the counter in the basement that was not sourced to the Ramseys...

We're not talking about RDI.
We're talking about the stalker and the insider from your previous post.

How is it that a stalker was not spotted, but you theorize they got close enough to know about the dog, the staircase, the basement room, etc?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Has everyone here seen the video footage taken that morning by law enforcement?

Please pay attention to the excellent filming and concentration on THE window.

"Police footage from the Ramseys' basement taken hours after JonBenet's body was discovered shows the window through which some believe an intruder might have come in. About 3:36 minutes in."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html

Video is about halfway down the page.

I can't for the life of me understand Lou Schmidt's window video when this was so well documented.

I've edited to include Lou's video

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/ame]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tawny]

NVM, forgot which thread I was reading -__-

 

[Anti-K]

You know here is the thing about the IDI theory.

I'm willing to keep an open mind about the theory.

But the IDI's have to produce a suspect or a line of investigation at somepoint.

The IDI's have to give a reason for the public to believe that they are not solely interesting in defending the Ramsey's. They have to provide a legitimate lead.

The best they could come up with was Michael Helgoth and John Mark Karr. Two people who never should have been suspects to begin with.

An investigation needs to move. It needs to have a line of investigation. A suspect to investigate.

Give us one!!

That's actually what I was looking for in this thread. A legitimate suspect or line of investigation that could be looked into along with looking into the RDI thread.

Contrary to popular believe, an investigator can multitask. You can look into IDI and still follow the RDI case.
But to properly follow IDI...there needs to be a lead or suspect at some point. Hell even the Jack the Ripper case has suspects. Where are the legitimate IDI suspects in this case.

The suspect is DNA-man; he is the ransom note author. This person will probably never be identified, but should he be, then he will be investigated and the case will advance.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

These are the kind of assumptions that bother me. Just because WE can't think of a reason doesn't mean there wasn't a reason.

However, it could be that the person entered the house to rob them after they left the house. What easier way could there be to rob a house than to enter during a Christmas open house and linger around and sneak down to the basement to hide.

Then the family leaves and they can casually look through the house instead of breaking in not knowing if the family was home or when they were returning. If someone is getting dressed up to go to dinner they will definitely be out for an hour or two.

Christmas time is a RIFE for burglaries. Everyone knows this, I mean come on didn't you see Home Alone? LOL December is the third highest month of the year for burglaries. The highest being summer when families go on vacation.

Now say the burglar is in the house and looks around John's desk for a safe and sees the receipt for the $118000 and thinks, wow I bet I could get him to pay that, it's a drop in the bucket for a guy like him.

He decides to subdue Jonbenet and then try to get the ransom but he winds up killing her. Why is that such a hard thing to consider?

Recently there had been a rash of burglaries where entry was made through unlocked doors. In the first nine months of 1997 the police had recorded 722 burglaries, of which 231 did not involve forced entry. PMPT; p. 1217
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AK

 

[Anti-K]

So many things one could see and learn without ever even entering the house.

This link is to the same video posted above by Linda7NJ:
http://tinyurl.com/moszae8

Pause the video before it begins to play.

In the upper right side of the video you can see the corner of a window. This window looks into the kitchen, and the cup with the sharpie pens were on the counter/desk thingy mounted right below that window.

The door behind Smit is the door that Fernie looked through and saw the ransom note on the floor. The spiral stairs would be visible from this vantage point, and the notepad should have also been visible.

The window above Smit is to a hallway; at the end of this hallway is the spiral stairs; to the left is Jonbenet’s bedroom.

On our left of Smit (his right shoulder) and slightly above is Jonbenet’s bedroom; if he were to step away from the house, turn around and look up and to the left he would see the balcony of Jonbenet’s bedroom.

When Smit opens the grate his back is to the balcony.
.

The killer might not have known that there were two sets of stairs to the second floor to choose from.
.

The killer only needed to know which bedrooms likely belonged to the children. Best guess: second floor. But, watching the house to see which lights go on and which go out and in what order could help him narrow the possibilities.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Let’s see if we can find out way around this house knowing only what we can see from the outside. We’ll just assume free entry for now. Follow along here: http://tinyurl.com/3r7u

Scroll down to the First Floor. Look where it says “Fernie sees note from this door.” Through this door we can see the stairs leading upstairs. We want to go upstairs.
Entry Point 1: let’s enter through “Fernie’s” door. Just inside the door (the pen is to our right and the notepad ahead and to the right) the stairs are straight ahead. Let’s go upstairs.

At the top of the stairs, we look for the window we could see from the outside, above “Fernie’s” door. It will be at the opposite end of the hallway at the top of the stairs. When we face that window we know that the balcony room (Jonbenet’s bedroom) is ahead of us and to our right. We don’t know that it is Jonbenet’s bedroom, but we’ll sneak a peek in there first. Aha! Bingo!

Now, to find the basement. I’ll get to that at the end of this (or, in the next post, or the next. ).

Entry Point 2: let’s enter through the garage. Still on the First Floor: we enter from the garage into the mud room and then a hallway. To our right is “Fernie’s” door and to our left is the spiral stairs. Go upstairs and repeat as in Entry Point 1.

Entry Point 3: let’s enter through the butler door. Still on the First Floor: start at “Fernie’s” door (because this is where we see everything from when outside). We are on the south side, facing the north. We want to be on the north side, facing south. We circle the house from the short side – because it’s the short side - until we are on the opposite side. Now, when we face the house, we are facing south. The first door we come to is to a storage room, the second door is the butler door. Let’s enter.

At this point, we know that we are on the same side of the house as the spiral stairs. We know that the stairs are to our right. So, we go right; we go up a few stairs and – aha! Bingo. Go up the spiral stairs and repeat as in Entry Point 1.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Entry Point 4: the basement as theorized by Smit. Still on the First Floor: start at “Fernie’s” door (because this is where we see everything from when outside). Turn to face The Metal Grate. The balcony room (Jonbenet’s bedroom) is behind us; the spiral stairs are to our left and slightly behind us. More importantly, at this step, the hallway is to our left and slightly behind us. These are our navigation points.

Scroll down to The Basement. Enter through The Metal Grate and the basement window.

Step one: we are facing away from the balcony room and the stairs. The hallway seen through “Fernie’s” door is (above us) to our left and slightly behind us. We need to find this hallway. We can only go forward, so at some point we will have to make a u-turn. We walk forward until we find the first opportunity to turn left (a left and another left = u-turn).

Step two: We turn left and we see stairs leading upstairs. We turn left to go up the stairs. We have completed our u-turn and we are now headed towards the hallway (scroll up to The First Floor). At the top of the stairs we must go left or we must go right. We need to find the hallway which we know is straight ahead of us. To do this, if we turn left we must then turn right and if we turn right we must then turn left.

Step three: Let’s turn left, because left has stairs going further up, and we know we need to go up. Now, we must turn right. We turn right and the hallway is straight ahead of us. We walk to the hallway (pen on the left side, notepad and stairs to the right) and we see the spiral stairs to our right. Go upstairs and repeat as in Entry Point 1.
.

I’ll address finding the basement if the entry was through Pont 1, 2 or 3 in my next post. But, first I need a break (maybe you, whoever may be reading this, do too!)
...

AK

 

[Mama2JML]

We're not talking about RDI.
We're talking about the stalker and the insider from your previous post.

How is it that a stalker was not spotted, but you theorize they got close enough to know about the dog, the staircase, the basement room, etc?

You've misinterpreted my point, which is this: The perp isn't a Ramsey, and he isn't anyone "close" enough to have had his DNA collected and compared to the JBR case DNA profiles. He may have been a friend of a friend (of a friend), a complete stranger, an associate, etc.

(If you read my prior posts on the topic, beginning @ #617, you may better understand my point: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229301&page=25)

 

[Mama2JML]

RSBM

The internet is a great thing, but it can perpetuate falsehoods forever.

Agreed. It would be most responsible to research any proposed "fact" to determine validity. One should consult a variety of sources, assess the reliability of each source, and consider the dates of publication.

 

[2 percent]

You've misinterpreted my point, which is this: The perp isn't a Ramsey, and he isn't anyone "close" enough to have had his DNA collected and compared to the JBR case DNA profiles. He may have been a friend of a friend (of a friend), a complete stranger, an associate, etc.

(If you read my prior posts on the topic, beginning @ #617, you may better understand my point: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229301&page=25)

I don't think I have misinterpreted anything...but no matter.

So this Ramsey friend told his friend details about the house, the routine, the bonus, probably the kids, etc and at no time the Ramsey friend was suspicious enough after the murder to come forward?

If you add another friend as part of this information circle we now have two people not suspicious enough after the murders to come forward and say they gave out a lot of Ramsey information.

Very unlikely :moo:

 

[2 percent]

So many things one could see and learn without ever even entering the house.

This link is to the same video posted above by Linda7NJ:
http://tinyurl.com/moszae8

Pause the video before it begins to play.

In the upper right side of the video you can see the corner of a window. This window looks into the kitchen, and the cup with the sharpie pens were on the counter/desk thingy mounted right below that window.

The door behind Smit is the door that Fernie looked through and saw the ransom note on the floor. The spiral stairs would be visible from this vantage point, and the notepad should have also been visible.

The window above Smit is to a hallway; at the end of this hallway is the spiral stairs; to the left is Jonbenet’s bedroom.

On our left of Smit (his right shoulder) and slightly above is Jonbenet’s bedroom; if he were to step away from the house, turn around and look up and to the left he would see the balcony of Jonbenet’s bedroom.

When Smit opens the grate his back is to the balcony.
.

The killer might not have known that there were two sets of stairs to the second floor to choose from.
.

The killer only needed to know which bedrooms likely belonged to the children. Best guess: second floor. But, watching the house to see which lights go on and which go out and in what order could help him narrow the possibilities.
...

AK

An intruder doesn't have to be in the house to gather Intel, but does have to be peering in windows and doors . I don't see how the theory has improved. We still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen

 

[Anti-K]

An intruder doesn't have to be in the house to gather Intel, but does have to be peering in windows and doors . I don't see how the theory has improved. We still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen

Of course. We’re talking about someone who may have surveilled the Ramsey home and/or the Ramseys without being noticed. That goes without saying; right?
...

AK

 

[Mama2JML]

BBM

I don't think I have misinterpreted anything...but no matter.

So this Ramsey friend told his friend details about the house, the routine, the bonus, probably the kids, etc and at no time the Ramsey friend was suspicious enough after the murder to come forward?

If you add another friend as part of this information circle we now have two people not suspicious enough after the murders to come forward and say they gave out a lot of Ramsey information.

Very unlikely :moo:

I haven't made these assertions. If you have not misinterpreted my posts, then you've misrepresented them.

 

[Mama2JML]

BBM

An intruder doesn't have to be in the house to gather Intel, but does have to be peering in windows and doors . I don't see how the theory has improved. We still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen

This is one of many possibilities. Perhaps your 'suspect profile' fits a POI whose suspicious behavior was reported to authorities? Maybe "we still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen" investigated? Of course, there exists a spectrum of alternatives to these scenarios...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

We're not talking about RDI.

We're talking about the stalker and the insider from your previous post.



How is it that a stalker was not spotted, but you theorize they got close enough to know about the dog, the staircase, the basement room, etc?

They are called stalkers for a reason. It is possible and probable that someone could find all that info and not be seen.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

An intruder doesn't have to be in the house to gather Intel, but does have to be peering in windows and doors . I don't see how the theory has improved. We still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen

No they don't. High powered lenses binoculars, many ways to stalk and provide surveillance without ever stepping foot in the property


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[lawstudent]

Stalkers don't go right from high-powered surveillance to breaking in and assaulting, though. Some people are just voyeurs, but there's almost always an intermediate step there when it's an obsession with a certain family or person. They start coming closer and closer.

 

[2 percent]

Of course. We’re talking about someone who may have surveilled the Ramsey home and/or the Ramseys without being noticed. That goes without saying; right?
...

AK

No. It doesn't go without saying. I find it unlikely to impossible for someone to surveil in a neighborhood like that.
Now maybe we can progress past challenging statements to discussion....

 

[2 percent]

BBMThis is one of many possibilities. Perhaps your 'suspect profile' fits a POI whose suspicious behavior was reported to authorities? Maybe "we still have a stalking window peeping intruder who was never seen" investigated? Of course, there exists a spectrum of alternatives to these scenarios...

Not my theory.
By all means elucidate the spectrum of alternatives, according to you, specifically...