Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[icedtea4me]

Noun[edit]

би́знес • (bíznɛs) m inan
1.business

Should we continue?

The writer wrote bussiness, not business.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransompage1.gif

Definition of the word buss: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/buss?s=t

 

[tovarisch]

The writer wrote bussiness, not business.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransompage1.gif

Definition of the word buss: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/buss?s=t

Dear icedtea4me, I told you I`ve got it!

And I thanked you for reminding this misspelling that IS NOT consistent with the education level of master of journalism, and person who typed business letters ( Patsy) while being right hand and the only second in the starting up business FOR YEARS, while they built their business from their basement years earlier. Patsy `s misspelling in the word "business" is highly impossible.


Buss is buss, business is business. What is your point?

 

[BBB167893]

There is no proof she wrote that note. None. At most people have said it was more likely but there is no proof she wrote that note.

Scarlett, allow me to say one thing, and I'll leave this thread in peace: what you say has some merit, insofar as the only "proof" would be if a witness came forward to say they saw her write it or if she confessed to writing it. Until a truly scientific (I would say computerized) method is developed, all we have are the opinions of individual examiners, all of whom are subject to the same failings as the rest of us.

As far as I go, and this is just my stance, and you all can do whatever you like with it, the experts who say she did write it make the stronger argument. And I'm not just saying that because they agree with me, and anyone who says that's the case doesn't know his/her butt from a gopher burrow. To use three individual examples, Chet Ubowski spent the greatest amount of time doing analysis, Tom Miller was target of a slime campaign, and Gideon Epstein, due to his experience as a Nazi hunter, probably (and that's just an educated guess on my part) had a far greater degree of experience with disguised handwriting. (Also, read the "Expert Reassessment" thread on the danger of relying on experts who are slaves to techniques that haven't progressed in over 60 years.)

That's my 2 cents. Do whatever you want with it. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Good night and good luck.

 

[Mama2JML]

Scarlett, allow me to say one thing, and I'll leave this thread in peace: what you say has some merit, insofar as the only "proof" would be if a witness came forward to say they saw her write it or if she confessed to writing it. Until a truly scientific (I would say computerized) method is developed, all we have are the opinions of individual examiners, all of whom are subject to the same failings as the rest of us.

As far as I go, and this is just my stance, and you all can do whatever you like with it, the experts who say she did write it make the stronger argument. And I'm not just saying that because they agree with me, and anyone who says that's the case doesn't know his/her butt from a gopher burrow. To use three individual examples, Chet Ubowski spent the greatest amount of time doing analysis, Tom Miller was target of a slime campaign, and Gideon Epstein, due to his experience as a Nazi hunter, probably (and that's just an educated guess on my part) had a far greater degree of experience with disguised handwriting. (Also, read the "Expert Reassessment" thread on the danger of relying on experts who are slaves to techniques that haven't progressed in over 60 years.)

That's my 2 cents. Do whatever you want with it. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Good night and good luck.

Chet Ubowski's analysis did not result in a match to Patsy's handwriting. NONE of the 6 experts who analyzed the original ransom note identified Patsy as the author. The consensus was she likely did NOT write the note.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett, allow me to say one thing, and I'll leave this thread in peace: what you say has some merit, insofar as the only "proof" would be if a witness came forward to say they saw her write it or if she confessed to writing it. Until a truly scientific (I would say computerized) method is developed, all we have are the opinions of individual examiners, all of whom are subject to the same failings as the rest of us.

As far as I go, and this is just my stance, and you all can do whatever you like with it, the experts who say she did write it make the stronger argument. And I'm not just saying that because they agree with me, and anyone who says that's the case doesn't know his/her butt from a gopher burrow. To use three individual examples, Chet Ubowski spent the greatest amount of time doing analysis, Tom Miller was target of a slime campaign, and Gideon Epstein, due to his experience as a Nazi hunter, probably (and that's just an educated guess on my part) had a far greater degree of experience with disguised handwriting. (Also, read the "Expert Reassessment" thread on the danger of relying on experts who are slaves to techniques that haven't progressed in over 60 years.)

That's my 2 cents. Do whatever you want with it. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Good night and good luck.

It would be great if this was quoted correctly as I did not write this.

She didn't write the note. There is nothing to say that she did. Not by anyone.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, so much for me leaving in peace. Okay, folks. If you want a fight, you've damn sure got one!

Chet Ubowski's analysis did not result in a match to Patsy's handwriting.

Maybe not to YOUR standards. Our friend andreww deserves another look:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...!-*READ-FIRST-POST*-2&p=11479256#post11479256

NONE of the 6 experts who analyzed the original ransom note identified Patsy as the author. The consensus was she likely did NOT write the note.

Sorry, Mama, but that claim lost any credibility with me a LONG time ago, for several reasons. Some of which can be found here (and I suggest you guys read it):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226144-An-quot-Expert-quot-Reassessment

But an even bigger reason, which I stress heavily in "An Angel Betrayed," is because the Ramseys and their "people," like Lin Wood and Haddon, have been offered several chances to prove that claim by publicly releasing the ACTUAL handwriting reports, and have refused to do it. I haven't got much regard for Darnay Hoffman (RIP) but he was right on in that regard. They release everything else, from polygraph results on down, but not this! It doesn't (or shouldn't) take a rocket scientist to figure out WHY they won't release them. It's obvious to me why they won't.

But even if it IS true, and that's a very big if, I'm not overly impressed with so-called "experts" whose techniques haven't updated in 60 years, are more interested in politics than actually doing their jobs, and don't even put in a whole days work! The "expert reassessment" thread spells that out pretty clearly.

No, as much as I'm loathe to agree with Alex Hunter, even a stopped watch is right twice a day, and his idea to forget the analysts and just let a jury make up its own mind from seeing the comparison charts is one I'm all in favor of.

So here you go:

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/

The Dragon is Breathing Fire!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well, so much for me leaving in peace. Okay, folks. If you want a fight, you've damn sure got one!



Maybe not to YOUR standards. Our friend andreww deserves another look:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...!-*READ-FIRST-POST*-2&p=11479256#post11479256



Sorry, Mama, but that claim lost any credibility with me a LONG time ago, for several reasons. Some of which can be found here (and I suggest you guys read it):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226144-An-quot-Expert-quot-Reassessment

But an even bigger reason, which I stress heavily in "An Angel Betrayed," is because the Ramseys and their "people," like Lin Wood and Haddon, have been offered several chances to prove that claim by publicly releasing the ACTUAL handwriting reports, and have refused to do it. I haven't got much regard for Darnay Hoffman (RIP) but he was right on in that regard. They release everything else, from polygraph results on down, but not this! It doesn't (or shouldn't) take a rocket scientist to figure out WHY they won't release them. It's obvious to me why they won't.

But even if it IS true, and that's a very big if, I'm not overly impressed with so-called "experts" whose techniques haven't updated in 60 years, are more interested in politics than actually doing their jobs, and don't even put in a whole days work! The "expert reassessment" thread spells that out pretty clearly.

No, as much as I'm loathe to agree with Alex Hunter, even a stopped watch is right twice a day, and his idea to forget the analysts and just let a jury make up its own mind from seeing the comparison charts is one I'm all in favor of.

So here you go:

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/

The Dragon is Breathing Fire!

This is not the place to fight as it is the IDI thread.
And there is no proof that she wrote that note. That will never change. She didn't write the note.

 

[Mama2JML]

Well, so much for me leaving in peace. Okay, folks. If you want a fight, you've damn sure got one!



Maybe not to YOUR standards. Our friend andreww deserves another look:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...!-*READ-FIRST-POST*-2&p=11479256#post11479256



Sorry, Mama, but that claim lost any credibility with me a LONG time ago, for several reasons. Some of which can be found here (and I suggest you guys read it):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226144-An-quot-Expert-quot-Reassessment

But an even bigger reason, which I stress heavily in "An Angel Betrayed," is because the Ramseys and their "people," like Lin Wood and Haddon, have been offered several chances to prove that claim by publicly releasing the ACTUAL handwriting reports, and have refused to do it. I haven't got much regard for Darnay Hoffman (RIP) but he was right on in that regard. They release everything else, from polygraph results on down, but not this! It doesn't (or shouldn't) take a rocket scientist to figure out WHY they won't release them. It's obvious to me why they won't.

But even if it IS true, and that's a very big if, I'm not overly impressed with so-called "experts" whose techniques haven't updated in 60 years, are more interested in politics than actually doing their jobs, and don't even put in a whole days work! The "expert reassessment" thread spells that out pretty clearly.

No, as much as I'm loathe to agree with Alex Hunter, even a stopped watch is right twice a day, and his idea to forget the analysts and just let a jury make up its own mind from seeing the comparison charts is one I'm all in favor of.

So here you go:

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/

The Dragon is Breathing Fire!

Ummm, no. The dragon is blowing smoke...

The National Enquirer doesn't count as a source and an expert with an axe to grind doesn't do much for me either.


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[BBB167893]

It would be great if this was quoted correctly as I did not write this.

No one has said it, Scarlett. That was in case they did. Shows what I get for trying to be friendly.

She didn't write the note. There is nothing to say that she did. Not by anyone.

Oh, no?

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/

You're welcome.

But just to show you I'm not a rotten guy, I still agree with your overall point: without an eyewitness or a confession, who can truly say for certain in court?

 

[BBB167893]

This is not the place to fight as it is the IDI thread.

Which is why I wanted to just leave. And I shall.

Anyone who wants a fight, just choose the place.

 

[BBB167893]

The National Enquirer doesn't count as a source

Oh, excuse me all to pieces. I wasn't able to scan the actual comparison charts. But I did find some of it. Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg85wR8Uy5Q

It's a killer!

and an expert with an axe to grind doesn't do much for me either.

Some axes NEED grinding, Mama. And this is one of 'em. And it's not just one expert. He's the first of many. I may be old-school, but I know the wave of the future when I see it. I'm not afraid to get on board. I'm also not afraid to look at what's staring me right in the face.

 

[tovarisch]

Which is why I wanted to just leave.

Anyone who wants a fight, just choose the place.

What we will fight with? The best fighting weapon is knowledge, neither side has knowledge sufficient to sustain the fight.


I`ve looked at your source of handwriting examples and the first impression was-- one has not to be an expert to see that:

distances between words in ransom and Patsy`s--- like day and night
pressure that author used in ransom twice or triple times more than Patsy`s very light handwriting
ransom written by right hand, looks natural ; Patsy`s left handwriting looks as left handwriting expected to look, very unnatural
and especially, especially!! those waves , crazy waves in top and in low parts of some letters, very unique personal characteristic of the author, and Patsy did not have it.

Those unique waves, that I noticed it long time ago, and that`s the right moment to bring it up, it`s ONE MORE CLUE left by the killer.

Also misspellings from killer :
"business"
"a early"
and improper use of "hence"

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Which is why I wanted to just leave. And I shall.

Anyone who wants a fight, just choose the place.

Oh my gosh. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

The fact is there is nothing to link Patsy to that note. Just because people say it does not make it true. She didn't write the note. It is obvious.
Maybe if people would weigh the facts and evidence instead of pushing their own agenda this case could have some wings again.

 

[BBB167893]

Maybe if people would weigh the facts and evidence instead of pushing their own agenda this case could have some wings again.

My feelings EXACTLY!

 

[Anti-K]

Well, so much for me leaving in peace. Okay, folks. If you want a fight, you've damn sure got one!



Maybe not to YOUR standards. Our friend andreww deserves another look:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...!-*READ-FIRST-POST*-2&p=11479256#post11479256



Sorry, Mama, but that claim lost any credibility with me a LONG time ago, for several reasons. Some of which can be found here (and I suggest you guys read it):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226144-An-quot-Expert-quot-Reassessment

But an even bigger reason, which I stress heavily in "An Angel Betrayed," is because the Ramseys and their "people," like Lin Wood and Haddon, have been offered several chances to prove that claim by publicly releasing the ACTUAL handwriting reports, and have refused to do it. I haven't got much regard for Darnay Hoffman (RIP) but he was right on in that regard. They release everything else, from polygraph results on down, but not this! It doesn't (or shouldn't) take a rocket scientist to figure out WHY they won't release them. It's obvious to me why they won't.

But even if it IS true, and that's a very big if, I'm not overly impressed with so-called "experts" whose techniques haven't updated in 60 years, are more interested in politics than actually doing their jobs, and don't even put in a whole days work! The "expert reassessment" thread spells that out pretty clearly.

No, as much as I'm loathe to agree with Alex Hunter, even a stopped watch is right twice a day, and his idea to forget the analysts and just let a jury make up its own mind from seeing the comparison charts is one I'm all in favor of.

So here you go:

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/

The Dragon is Breathing Fire!

The claim of consensus of 6 experts who examined the note. Although referenced by many, comes from Carnes. 4 of these experts were BPD experts. Would Wood, Haddon have copies of these? Could they legally release them? It seems to me that BPD, or the CBI or whoever could have released these documents. Why not rant against them? I don’t think that it matters because the bottom line is that none of these experts identified anyone as the author.

What is interesting and significant is that these are the only experts that met the standards set by the Courts. We can disagree with their findings or argue with their methods, but we cannot ignore their conclusions.
.

The idea that jurors, or any layperson, should be permitted to use their own judgment when considering evidence that experts (or, so-called experts) cannot be relied upon is a frightening idea and unreasonable.
...

AK

 

[BBB167893]

Let's take this elsewhere.

 

[andreww]

I don't have the info in front of me but as I recall, even though all of the non-Ramsey hired experts would identify Patsy as the author, the all felt that there were strong similarities. You also have to remember a couple of things:

-Patsy would have disguised her writing style when penning that note.

-Patsy likely would have further disguised any samples she provided.

-The Ramsey's were using there legal goons to sue or dig up dirt on anyone that accused them.

With that in mind, do you actually think anybody could or would positively identify her?




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[andreww]

Something that has always bothered me about the hand writing samples is that the ransom note uses a different style of the letter "a" than Patsy used in all subsequent samples that she provided. The note uses "a" and Patsy always used "a" style. But, in the link UKGuy provided there is a pageant entry for that conclusively shows that she used the "a" style



Here is a sample she provided police.



So give me an explanation as to why she would possibly change the way she constructed the letter "a" other than she was trying to be evasive?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Something that has always bothered me about the hand writing samples is that the ransom note uses a different style of the letter "a" than Patsy used in all subsequent samples that she provided. The note uses "a" and Patsy always used "a" style. But, in the link UKGuy provided there is a pageant entry for that conclusively shows that she used the "a" style

View attachment 69522

Here is a sample she provided police.

View attachment 69523

So give me an explanation as to why she would possibly change the way she constructed the letter "a" other than she was trying to be evasive?

Because people change their handwriting all the time. I do every day. If I showed you my handwriting from a year, you would see 4 types of a's 3 types of m's. It depends how important the paper is and how long I have to write and what I am writing.
I have days where I am obsessive and write neat and clear and some looks like I am writing while dying.

When copying provided words, You would write them like they are written usually.
Still No match for ransom note. The ransom note was not written by Patsy.

 

[andreww]

Because people change their handwriting all the time. I do every day. If I showed you my handwriting from a year, you would see 4 types of a's 3 types of m's. It depends how important the paper is and how long I have to write and what I am writing.
I have days where I am obsessive and write neat and clear and some looks like I am writing while dying.

When copying provided words, You would write them like they are written usually.
Still No match for ransom note. The ransom note was not written by Patsy.

There are some people you just can't have a reasonable conversation with. Contrary to your beliefs, people do not change their handwriting, especially over a short period of time. Patsy purposely changed her style because she did write that note and she didn't want to be caught.