Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

[fred&edna]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727081477517562089

Additional Aircraft Intrusions are being reported along the Border with Northern Israel.

 

[Simply Southern]

Is there a way to ensure your donation goes specificly to the Red Cross vice any of it's subsidaries?

Also want to point out that I have seen excellent and ethical work being done by the Red Crescent in some very cra*ppy places while they too were under fire.

I think the difference here is that is a subsidary of a subsidary" ICRC ---> Red Crescent ---> Palestinian Red Crescent. The Palestinian Red Crescent who have unfortunately been caught in complicity with Hamas by transporting terrorists from/to battles and delivering communications from one HQ to another, utilizing ambulances in an attempt to get Hamas fighters out through the crossing to Egypt instead of the injured innocent Palestinians who desperatly required medical evacuation etc.

I respect your opinion, so much good could be done.

When an organization partners with a terrorist organization, I just can't. I remember 911, will never forget.
Out of respect for everyone who died due to terrorist invading my country, it is my tribute to withhold support.

Nope, I'm done...period.

Love and peace and all that jazz ...
Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

:thinking:

There will always be the threat of terrorism, of course.

But enemies have been stopped, right? What does history tell us?

I am currently reading a book about The Troubles in Ireland. The final consensus seems to be that the two sides stopped fighting when they got tired of fighting.

I started reading the book hoping to get some insight into the Israel/Palestinian problem and what solutions there may be.

(The book is Say Nothing by Patrick Keefe.)

 

[margarita25]

Hamas and IDF spout propaganda ad nauseum, and the world has no way of knowing Truth. What we do know is that innocents are caught between two militant groups, and They are the losers The World must end this.

Again, just can’t get on board with Hamas and IDF mentioned together. IDF is military, Hamas is a terrorist organization.

As far as the world knowing the “Truth,” one thing we DO know, for a FACT, although some still refuse to accept which is baffling considering it comes from Hamas’ own go-pros that they streamed themselves, is that Hamas initiated the invasion, rapes, beyond brutal slaughter, and kidnapping of innocent people on Oct 7. Propaganda or no propaganda, Israel doesn’t even neeeed propaganda. The initial event is truth in itself. They don’t have to lie to prove anything, it’s all right there. Sure one might say tunnels this, hospitals this, but look at the root. October 7 was not Israeli propaganda. It actually happened.

 

[margarita25]

I respect your opinion, so much good could be done.

When an organization partners with a terrorist organization, I just can't. I remember 911, will never forget.
Out of respect for everyone who died due to terrorist invading my country, it is my tribute to withhold support.

Nope, I'm done...period.

Love and peace and all that jazz ...
Moo

Each of us does what we do.

I never thought the day would come I’d rip up a Pink Floyd shirt.

 

[PapillonVert]

Only 33% of Israelis support a two state solution (as at March & April 2023).

Israelis have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution

Only 35% of Israelis believe that Israel and an independent Palestine can coexist peacefully, down from 44% in 2017.

www.pewresearch.org

I interpret this differently. The poll is asking if peaceful coexistence with an independent Palestine is possible, not whether Israelis support a Palestinian state. I wonder if the question was more direct (“would you support a two state solution?”) what the responses would be.

I could see Israelis who are pessimistic about peace due to the threat of violence answering no to this question even if they would want a two state solution with a peaceful neighbor.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I interpret this differently. The poll is asking if peaceful coexistence with an independent Palestine is possible, not whether Israelis support a Palestinian state. I wonder if the question was more direct (“would you support a two state solution?”) what the responses would be.

I could see Israelis who are pessimistic about peace due to the threat of violence answering no to this question even if they would want a two state solution with a peaceful neighbor.

JMO

There are more links out there ... this one is from a different survey. If you click on the blue-writing link in what I have quoted, it takes you to the Jan '23 survey results.


But belief in the possibility of a two-state solution has dropped significantly, which seems to have let to a decline in public support. In one survey, published in January 2023, only 34 percent of Israeli Jews and 33 percent of Palestinians supported a two-state solution — which the authors note was “linked to low perceived feasibility.”

What are the “two-state solution” and the “one-state solution”?

These are the two broad ways the Israeli-Palestinian conflict might end.

www.vox.com

 

[Chimera]

The People/Prisoners living in Gaza, the Open Air Concentration Camp, were not consulted, and once Hamas was elected, they have not allowed elections since. Hamas has a stranglehold on Gaza, and no protesting allowed...

Emphasis mine.
Yes, the bolded is entirely true.

Actually Gaza is not a concentration camp, per se.
A high rise was described as a refugee camp but it's actually an apartment building.
Not sure why Hamas would think it's a refugee camp ?

Gazans have lives, jobs, families, homes in high rises there; and not just Hamas but civilians were allowed to cross over into Israel to abduct, torture, and in some cases even kill -- Israelis.
Pointing out that travel is possible.
Maybe the few photos allowed out of Gaza are influenced by their media and what we're seeing is failed Hamas rockets within the city.

Still very sad and hoping with this conflict the Gazans can find their voice and overthrow their oppressors -- Hamas.
Although if some think it's a concentration camp ... the guards and executioners are entirely Hamas and no one else, it would appear ?
Imo.
Omo.
Ymmv.

 

[Dotta]

Ymmv.

What does it mean? (Ymmv)
I really try to decipher it.
Help!

 

[Chimera]

Only 35% of Israelis support a two state solution (as at March & April 2023).

Israelis have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution

Only 35% of Israelis believe that Israel and an independent Palestine can coexist peacefully, down from 44% in 2017.

www.pewresearch.org

Thanks for the link, @SouthAussie !
Interesting reading.
Probably by now many Israelis have realized there could be inherent dangers in a two state agreement .
Would that mean commerce and people could flow freely over the border both ways ?
Thinking about the possible issues with this.
Omo.

 

[PapillonVert]

:thinking:

There will always be the threat of terrorism, of course.

But enemies have been stopped, right? What does history tell us?

Couldn’t this be directly compared to ISIS? ISIS was a serious threat at one time and it captured quite a bit of territory but we did essentially destroy its power as an organized group through a sustained campaign. There are pockets of ISIS fighters out there as I understand it, but they no longer have the vast network nor resources needed to wreak havoc as they once did.

Timeline: the Rise, Spread, and Fall of the Islamic State

At its height, the Islamic State - also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh - held about a third of Syria and 40 percent of Iraq. By December 2017 it had lost 95 percent of its territory, including its two biggest properties, Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, and the northern Syrian city of Raqqa...

www.wilsoncenter.org

 

[MyBelle]

Only 35% of Israelis support a two state solution (as at March & April 2023).

Israelis have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution

Only 35% of Israelis believe that Israel and an independent Palestine can coexist peacefully, down from 44% in 2017.

www.pewresearch.org

A two-state solution is the only solution. Israelis need to focus on their own elections and do their homework before voting for candidates.

JMO

 

[Chimera]

What does it mean?
I really try to decipher it.
Help!

Your Mileage May Vary.
It means everyone is going to come at a problem from a different viewpoint.
That's natural, and a healthy discussion and debate is a good thing.

It's in the "Websleuth's Lingo" page.
You have to scroll down a bit.
There's more acronyms and abbreviations here :

Websleuth's Lingo

. Now and then we have to remember with as many new members we have that our every day lingo becomes like a maze to them. Since people are lost on these and asking...here you go! Seasoned posters can feel free to add their own since I will probably forget half of them. LE= Law...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Friday Fan]

:thinking:

There will always be the threat of terrorism, of course.

But enemies have been stopped, right? What does history tell us?

They often regroup....
It hasn't stopped....

We armed the Taliban and encouraged it.
In an effort to aid the anti-Soviet insurgency and inculcate a hatred of foreign invaders in Afghan children, the US government covertly distributed schoolbooks which promoted militant Islamic teachings and included images of weapons and soldiers.
Taliban - Wikipedia
(And people are complaining about UNRWA textbooks)

Look what happened after Iraq.
We had a great big war that lasted about a year, then a 4 year insurgence a year later.
Then it left a vacuum and ISIS formed.

ISIS attacks went down when we finally kissed Assad's behind. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698
The bombs weren't working because Assad was supporting ISIS
So, everyone just kissed his behind and Assad threw them out into the desert without any resources to survive.


We had terrorism in the US, but the most effective control was deterrence.

It still is very active overseas.

It hasn't stopped in Israel.
Gaza and Israel have been bombing each other for years. It's constant and it doesn't end.

Israel declared war on Gaza because of the Oct 7th, terrorist attack, but much of the Oct 7th attack can be blamed on faulty security.
So now Israel has invaded Gaza.


Much overseas terrorism doesn't even make the news.


There is currently a genocide going on right now in Sudan.
No one seems to care about the genocide in Sudan.

There was also a genocide in the DCR.
No one cared.
Several million died. Crickets.

 

[SouthAussie]

A two-state solution is the only solution. Israelis need to focus on their own elections and do their homework before voting for candidates.

JMO

I tend to agree. I am not seeing any other way around the ongoing problem.

Maybe one day both sides will realise that they can co-exist independently - if they give each other the room to do so.

imo

 

[Momoffourboys]

Emphasis mine.
Yes, the bolded is entirely true.
Actually Gaza is not a concentration camp, per se.
People have lives there, and not just Hamas but civilians were allowed to cross over into Israel to abduct, torture, and in some cases even kill -- Israelis.
It's possible that the few photos allowed out of Gaza are influenced by their media and what we're seeing is failed Hamas rockets within the city.
Still very sad and hoping with this conflict the Gazans can find their voice and overthrow their oppressors -- Hamas.
Although if some think it's a concentration camp ... the guards and executioners are entirely Hamas and no one else, it would appear ?
Imo.
Omo.
Ymmv.

As a Holocaust researcher and granddaughter of Holocaust victims and survivors, I can attest that Gaza is not, nor was it ever a concentration camp.

Gaza 2019

Majdanek Concentration camp

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/748661511/heres-what-tourists-might-see-if-they-were-allowed-to-visit-gaza

Lublin/Majdanek Concentration Camp: Conditions

In 1940, the Nazis established Lublin (Majdanek) concentration camp in Lublin, Poland. Learn more about camp conditions.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

 

[Dotta]

Your Mileage May Vary.
It means everyone is going to come at a problem from a different viewpoint.
That's natural, and a healthy discussion and debate is a good thing.

It's in the "Websleuth's Lingo" page.
You have to scroll down a bit.
There's more acronyms and abbreviations here :

Websleuth's Lingo

. Now and then we have to remember with as many new members we have that our every day lingo becomes like a maze to them. Since people are lost on these and asking...here you go! Seasoned posters can feel free to add their own since I will probably forget half of them. LE= Law...

www.websleuths.com

Thanks
Phew!
We live and learn haha

 

[Dotta]

They often regroup....
It hasn't stopped....

We armed the Taliban and encouraged it.
In an effort to aid the anti-Soviet insurgency and inculcate a hatred of foreign invaders in Afghan children, the US government covertly distributed schoolbooks which promoted militant Islamic teachings and included images of weapons and soldiers.
Taliban - Wikipedia
(And people are complaining about UNRWA textbooks)

Look what happened after Iraq.
We had a great big war that lasted about a year, then a 4 year insurgence a year later.
Then it left a vacuum and ISIS formed.

ISIS attacks went down when we finally kissed Assad's behind. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698
The bombs weren't working because Assad was supporting ISIS
So, everyone just kissed his behind and Assad threw them out into the desert without any resources to survive.


We had terrorism in the US, but the most effective control was deterrence.

It still is very active overseas.

It hasn't stopped in Israel.
Gaza and Israel have been bombing each other for years. It's constant and it doesn't end.

Israel declared war on Gaza because of the Oct 7th, terrorist attack, but much of the Oct 7th attack can be blamed on faulty security.
So now Israel has invaded Gaza.


Much overseas terrorism doesn't even make the news.


There is currently a genocide going on right now in Sudan.
No one seems to care about the genocide in Sudan.

There was also a genocide in the DCR.
No one cared.
Several million died. Crickets.

And I repeat.
Terrorism is an ideology.
You cannot bomb ideology.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

 

[Simply Southern]

UK (edited) plane headed to Cypress it appears. It has this funny little thing I've never seen in front of it. It's been in front the entire time.