Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

[Momoffourboys]

The war will continue until all the hostages are returned, Hamas is eliminated, and there is no threat for Israel in Gaza, says PM Netanyahu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727055896554193195

 

[nao]

Have you seen a number released by “health ministry” for freedom fighters? Or are they included in civilians?

Moo...it includes all deaths, Hamas included. But..very large number of children and women. Think it's about 6-7 thousand not including all men

 

[margarita25]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
What some seem to forget is you can be horrified by the Hamas attack on 7th October but also be horrified by the way the IDF have attacked Gaza. As António Guterres said in his speech this did not happen in a vacuum .

I can’t put IDF and Hamas in the same sentence, though.

 

[Simply Southern]

34m ago
The Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) has said three doctors were killed in what it said was an Israeli strike on Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza.

Doctors Without Borders (MSF) has confirmed that two of its doctors and a third health ministry doctor were killed following what it said was a strike on Al-Awda.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727004544188731721

ActionAid said it was “horrified” to learn from the hospital, which is a partner to the organisation, that three doctors were killed after the fourth floor of the building was hit by bombing. It added:



In a statement, Al-Awda said that it “adhered to the medical and health principles and practices in times of conflicts and war” and that “only medical personnel, patients and the injured” were inside the hospital.



48m ago

MSF says its doctors were killed in strike on northern Gaza hospital​

Doctors Without Borders (MSF) has said it is “horrified” by the killing of two of its doctors and a third health ministry doctor following what it said was a strike on Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza.

The MSF doctors, Dr Mahmoud Abu Nujaila and Dr Ahmad Al Sahar, were in the hospital when it was hit on the third and fourth floors, the charity said in a statement. Other medical staff, including MSF staff, were severely injured, it said.

More than 200 patients are still in Al-Awda and must be urgently evacuated to other hospitals in Gaza that are still functioning, MSF said.

It said it has regularly shared information about Al-Awda – one of the last remaining functional hospitals in northern Gaza – and that it had shared GPS coordinates with Israeli authorities on Monday. The statement continued:


Attacks on medical facilities are a “serious violation of international humanitarian law”, it said, adding that such attacks have become “systematic” in the past weeks.

Israeli cabinet approves deal for pause in fighting – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

This whole Red Crescent a division of Red Cross is going to cost the Red Cross dearly. Especially at a time of year, when many of us give.

I do believe many, myself included will support organizations that stand with the US. Never dreamed, I'd be severing ties with the Red Cross. 50 years of service, no more, not one dime, not one more minute of free work, not one more pint of blood.
Moo, many feel this way.

moo.. and heartbroken

 

[Arkay]

“Psychologists needed psychologists…”

I can’t adequately express my respect and admiration for these people who IMO have the worst job on Earth. And almost all of them are volunteers.

Their commitment to track down every body particle, drops of blood, flayed skin, whatever it may be, is magnificent. I have no idea how they can withstand the brutality, but it is a calling and important under Jewish laws of burial.

The one thing I would do differently, not that I could even do this job, is to forgo the care they take when it comes to the bodies of the terrorists.

IMO once they know it is a terrorist body, as he said even if it’s just a Hamas headband, my opinion is they should throw any Hamas body under the earth, with no ceremony, and let them become fertilizer to renew the destroyed Israeli gardens and crops.

It sounds harsh but it works for me.

 

[Vern]

Have you seen a number released by “health ministry” for freedom fighters? Or are they included in civilians?

I haven't but if there is anybod who can find it, I would appreciate it. Everything I can find just tracks the "total" with a breakdown for children vs adult.

Accurate accounting for conflict casualties usually has:

- Non-Combattants: Civilian (with a children casualty count sometimes listed sperately);
- Combattants: Military (in this case it should be Hamas casualty count).
- The military count is then further broken down into:
--- Combat-related casualty (Ie: Killed in battle);
--- Non-combat related (vehicle accident in-thatre of operations etc)
--- Blue on Blue (Comabttants inadvertantly killed by thier own or another allied force aka "Friendly Fire";
--- POW; and
--- MIA.

We are seeing nothing of the sort from Hamas PHM.

 

[margarita25]

The war will continue until all the hostages are returned, Hamas is eliminated, and there is no threat for Israel in Gaza, says PM Netanyahu

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727055896554193195

YEP. Their resolve continues and will continue to, I have no doubt. They are committed.

What else CAN they do when you’re fighting terrorists that have slaughtered your people, are holding your citizens including children, and continue to pose a major threat to your people?

Release the hostages now!

And it is INDEED BRUTAL what is happening in Gaza.

 

[Friday Fan]

Red Cross ‘cannot force its way in’ to see hostages, but critics say it could do more

ICRC says it can’t visit Gaza hostages unless Hamas allows it to do so, but government and families say it could exert more diplomatic pressure, including with Egypt and Qatar​

Hostages’ families are asking not only why the Red Cross is not reaching their loved ones in Gaza, but also why it is not contacting them to offer support and updates as they wait in agony for their loved ones to come home.


Part of the answer lies in how the ICRC works and the nature of the war between Israel and Hamas.

In October, the ICRC facilitated the logistics of the release of the four freed hostages, Judith and Natalie Ra’anan, Yocheved Lifshitz, and Nurit Cooper. However, it has had no contact with any of the other Israeli and foreign national hostages — 40 of them babies and children.


“The Red Cross is a humanitarian organization with a mandate to work in areas of war and conflict,” said Yehonatan Saban, spokesperson for the medical and resilience team of the Hostages and Missing Families Forum.

“The problem is that it can’t work without the agreement of both sides of a conflict, and maintaining its neutrality is essential to its work,” Saban said.

According to Saban, the situation is simpler when both two sides in a conflict are both states, unlike in the current war in which Israel is fighting Hamas, a terror organization.


Levine and his team compiled medical files on each hostage, with information on their medical conditions and illness, allergies, and the medications, vitamins, and special nutrition they must take. A document containing all this information was given to the Red Cross with a demand that it be used to safeguard the health of all the hostages. Levine’s team also demanded that injured hostages be properly cared for.

​

 

[Sundog]

They know Israel will do anything to return them home for burial. They keep the bodies as pawns. Israel values the dead as much as their living.

Clearly the sanctity of the deceased is a significant value of Israeli society. Israel's Chief Rabbinate's decision to bury the cars of the slaughtered victims from the dance event is evidence of this. Their remains will be interred by burying the cars, and their families will have a gravesite for their beloved family members and friends to pay their respects throughout the years.

 

[MyBelle]

Answering myself hahaha

It is better, IMO, for those kids and women freed to emigrate.

Return to West Bank??
Where settlers run amok?

Scary!!!

JMO

I think humanitarian aid workers will protect their safety. President Biden has already warned Israel that there is too much violence in the West Bank.

JMO

 

[OldCop]

Snipped for focus.
Bbm.
Re. the bolded : How sad for their loved ones.
Let their families have them back to bury and mourn.
So selfish of Hamas.
Omo.

Eta: @PrairieWind : Thanks, you answered my question. Ita.
If the bodies show signs of torture or enforced starvation, etc. Hamas will want to hide behind their dirty deeds.

Also, they can keep us guessing as to how many hostages are actually left.

 

[MyBelle]

I can’t put IDF and Hamas in the same sentence, though.

It is the leadership of IDF that is justifying the violence being inflict on civilians that posters are criticizing just as posters are criticizing the leadership of Hamas for the terrorist attack on Israel. Two wrongs don't make a right.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

Also, they can keep us guessing as to how many hostages are actually left.

Yeah this is a whoooole thing I haven’t even begun to post on yet. That video of the Hamas leader saying something about “maybe 60” killed in strikes…

Some very well may have been killed in the strikes, no candy coating it, but of course HAMAS is going to try to say this for all of them, like they did with Noa.

Not to mention why would they be killed in the strikes to begin with? Because HAMAS took them there. On October 7 these peaceful civilians were living their own lives, sleeping in their own beds, at a concert. And then they were slaughtered and kidnapped.

 

[Dotta]

Clearly the sanctity of the deceased is a significant value of Israeli society. Israel's Chief Rabbinate's decision to bury the cars of the slaughtered victims from the dance event is evidence of this. Their remains will be interred by burying the cars, and their families will have a gravesite for their beloved family members and friends to pay their respects throughout the years.

The same can be said of Muslims who are unable to bury their dead in Gaza.

All dead need respect.

JMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

Can't begin to imagine the torment of knowing your little 8-year-old girl is at a sleepover 200 meters away when Hamas death squads are murdering, torturing, and abducting everyone they can find... and you're powerless to help.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1726922907840872462

 

[MyBelle]

Moo...it includes all deaths, Hamas included. But..very large number of children and women. Think it's about 6-7 thousand not including all men

I think you are correct.
The death toll is climbing daily. The international community is pointing out the high death toll of civilians is directly tied to the large number of air strikes and are again raising the issue of possible war crimes by Israel.

JMO

Israel’s secret air war in Gaza and the West Bank

U.N. officials and open-source data researchers say the full details of Israel’s bombing campaign in Gaza remain largely unknown.

www.aol.com

Critics of Israel’s tactics say the sheer volume of airstrikes it has conducted in such densely populated areas is worrying. In the first week of the conflict, which began after Hamas’ Oct. 7 terrorist attack killed more than 1,200 Israelis, the IDF dropped 6,000 bombs in Gaza. In 2019, the U.S. dropped 7,400 bombs in Afghanistan over the course of an entire year.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Surveillance camera footage shows the latest rocket barrage from the Gaza Strip on central Israel. Looks like 10 launches, including one failing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727003572334911509

 

[MyBelle]

Sounds like hostage deal is getting closer to approval. This article states the hostages will be examined in Israel hospitals.
JMO

Dramatic Netanyahu gov't meeting to vote on hostage-prisoner deal

***

www.haaretz.com

Israel-Hamas War Day 46 | Dramatic Netanyahu Gov't Meeting to Vote on Hostage-prisoner Deal; Far-right Ministers Oppose
The emerging deal is expected to include the release of 50 hostages from Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinian prisoners ■ Far-right minister Ben-Gvir and Smotrich oppose hostage deal, Minister Sa'ar undecided; Shas leader says ultra-Orthodox party to vote for deal ■ IDF continues Gaza ground operation, announces death of two soldiers ■ At least 1,200 civilians and soldiers killed in Israel since October 7, 236 hostages held in Gaza ■ Hamas-controlled health ministry: 14,128 dead in Gaza

 

[Vern]

This whole Red Crescent a division of Red Cross is going to cost the Red Cross dearly. Especially at a time of year, when many of us give.

I do believe many, myself included will support organizations that stand with the US. Never dreamed, I'd be severing ties with the Red Cross. 50 years of service, no more, not one dime, not one more minute of free work, not one more pint of blood.
Moo, many feel this way.

moo.. and heartbroken

Is there a way to ensure your donation goes specificly to the Red Cross vice any of it's subsidaries?

Also want to point out that I have seen excellent and ethical work being done by the Red Crescent in some very cra*ppy places while they too were under fire.

I think the difference here is that is a subsidary of a subsidary" ICRC ---> Red Crescent ---> Palestinian Red Crescent. The Palestinian Red Crescent who have unfortunately been caught in complicity with Hamas by transporting terrorists from/to battles and delivering communications from one HQ to another, utilizing ambulances in an attempt to get Hamas fighters out through the crossing to Egypt instead of the injured innocent Palestinians who desperatly required medical evacuation etc.

 

[Chimera]

How true!

No one has ever eliminated terrorism with bombs.​

JMO

Except ... the IDF is carrying out surgical strikes.
On known Hamas locations.

This is a war and if Israel doesn't deal with this, how many more might be murdered at the next Oct. 7th raid ?
I think Hamas and possibly with the backing of other nations or groups -- are resolved to carry out more slaughters.
How many innocents could die if Hamas wins this skirmish ?
Instead of 1,400, it could be 5,000.

If bombs are used, it could save IDF lives and that's a good thing.
Hamas have killed innocents on both sides of the fence and imo, they are never going to stop unless they are stopped.

Comparing a bomb strike to a ground invasion from house to house, it makes sense to wipe out the enemy from above.
More lives might be lost if the IDF have to continually battle it block by block.
The IDF has made great effort to avoid civilian casualties and I applaud them for this.
They're under much more scrutiny than Hamas which is unfair.

How many Gazan citizens have died from outright murder from Hamas -- or their misfired rockets ?
Sad that so much carnage has been unleashed on Gaza by Hamas, the blood of the civilians is on the terrorists' hands.

If precise strikes is the only way to ensure Oct. 7th doesn't happen again, then the IDF is doing what it must.
Israel did not start this battle, but if they don't press on and do whatever they can, their nation and very lives are at stake.
If it takes bombs, then maybe no more innocent lives will be destroyed.

This is about survival, not just a difference in how Gaza wants to be governed.
Hoping they can break free courtesy of the IDF and forge a future without hating Israel !
Omo.