Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

[margarita25]

12m ago

Death toll passes 14,000 Palestinians in Gaza, says Hamas​

At least 14,128 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since the war began, according to the Hamas-run government in the enclave.

The latest death toll update includes at least 5,600 children and 3,550 women, it said.

Israeli cabinet approves deal for pause in fighting – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

Look what HAMAS started. 5,600 children killed.

These 5,600 children would be alive had they not drawn first blood.

 

[Friday Fan]

More details on info provided by Hamas detainees. Slightly different details than other articles. (Times of Israel etc)

Israel-Hamas war: Shin Bet interrogations break open Hamas strategy | The Jerusalem Post

The Shin Bet interrogated dozens of senior Hamas terrorists who participated in the October 7 slaughter of Israelis in the South.

www.jpost.com

 

[justtrish]

BBM from above:

“South African lawmakers have voted in favour of closing down the Israeli embassy in South Africa and suspending all diplomatic relations with Israeluntil it agrees to a ceasefire in Gaza.

The vote, which was adopted by a 248-91 margin, is largely symbolic as it will be up to the government whether to implement it.”


Wow, this is pretty big, lawmakers voting to close down the Israeli Embassy in South Africa and suspend all diplomatic relations…I wonder if the government will choose to implement this.


(Eta: Now I need to Google the history on their relations)

Perhaps South Africa would love to welcome HAMAS to their country then? I would love if these countries so outraged by Israel would propose a solution to this problem then. How would they get hostages back? How would they handle a massacre the level of Oct 7th? Everyone wants to scream ceasefire, but I find it hard to believe everyone screaming ceasefire would feel that way if it was their country attacked like Israel was on Oct. 7th.

 

[Momoffourboys]

An Israeli government source says Israel has insisted on certain conditions in the developing hostage deal with Hamas including that no Palestinian prisoners convicted of murder will be released in the agreement.
The source says the deal will also include a second stage to the agreement by which Hamas will act to locate women and children held by other terror factions in Gaza ahead of their release.
Hamas has said it has 210 of the about 240 hostages taken from Israel during the October 7 atrocities. Islamic Jihad is said to be holding the remaining hostages.According to the developing deal, Hamas will release at least 50 Israeli hostages, mainly women and children,
in exchange for a ceasefire of four days, the release of between 150 and 300 Palestinian prisoners, and the entry of fuel and other goods into Gaza.Some 12-13 hostages will be released per day as the ceasefire takes effect, the source says, adding that Israel will release
women and minor prisoners, with each returning to the city or town where he lived prior to imprisonment, including the West Bank and East Jerusalem.According to the source, Israel’s security establishment is in favor of the imminent agreement.
The source also says fuel that will enter Gaza as part of the deal will only be brought in during the ceasefire and that the IDF and Shin Bet will maintain the ability to continue gathering intelligence even during the pause in fighting.
Further, Israel will not allow Gazans to return to the northern part of the enclave where the IDF is operating.

x.com

x.com

 

[Friday Fan]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pm-tells-cabinet-hostage-deal-to-include-red-cross-access-to-remaining-abductees/

LIVE UPDATEFROM THE LIVEBLOG OF TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2023

PM tells cabinet hostage deal to include Red Cross access to remaining abductees​

​

By TAL SCHNEIDER Today, 9:54 pm 1
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made it clear during cabinet discussions on the proposed hostage deal tonight that part of the brewing agreement will include access by the Red Cross to the abductees who will remain as hostages in Gaza, including supplying them with medicine, his office says.

 

[EveningPanic]

Well that’s disappointing. I had my fingers crossed it would happen within a couple of hours of an agreement. (Jmo - bolded for emphasis on disappointing part).


“Israel will release 150 Palestinian women and children prisoners as part of the deal, but families of any prisoner's victims have the right to petition in court over the agreement under Israeli law. The official noted that none of the agreed-upon prisoners have directly killed Israelis.

But because of the law, any deal that is agreed upon by Israel’s cabinet tonight cannot go into effect until tomorrow night.”

Israel-Hamas war live updates: Biden says deal to release hostages in Gaza is ‘very close’

 

[Friday Fan]

How true!

No one has ever eliminated terrorism with bombs.​

JMO

Yep...
Terrorist use bombs
Armies use bombs
Bombs force armies to surrender
Armies represent nations which sign treaties
Terrorists hide, runaway.
They don't surrender or sign treaties.
They represent no one, but themselves.

On a side note: Asaad said he facilitated ISIS by releasing a bunch of terrorist prisoners.
Western powers were going to take Asaad out because of what he was doing to civilian protesters in his Syria
He had crossed the red line and was using chemical weapons.

So, Asaad decided to give western powers an even worse headache.
After a few years of ISIS, relations between Asaad and France resumed.
The world decided they preferred Asaad over ISIS

 

[Wishbone]

Look what you started HAMAS. 5,600 children killed, your own people. These 5,600 children would be alive had you not drawn first blood.

When and if the US gets physically involved in this “war”, then whose children will be dying for Israel's actions?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/us-middle-east-danger-israel-hamas-war-mime-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[Elley Mae]

An Israeli government source says Israel has insisted on certain conditions in the developing hostage deal with Hamas including that no Palestinian prisoners convicted of murder will be released in the agreement.
The source says the deal will also include a second stage to the agreement by which Hamas will act to locate women and children held by other terror factions in Gaza ahead of their release.
Hamas has said it has 210 of the about 240 hostages taken from Israel during the October 7 atrocities. Islamic Jihad is said to be holding the remaining hostages.According to the developing deal, Hamas will release at least 50 Israeli hostages, mainly women and children,
in exchange for a ceasefire of four days, the release of between 150 and 300 Palestinian prisoners, and the entry of fuel and other goods into Gaza.Some 12-13 hostages will be released per day as the ceasefire takes effect, the source says, adding that Israel will release
women and minor prisoners, with each returning to the city or town where he lived prior to imprisonment, including the West Bank and East Jerusalem.According to the source, Israel’s security establishment is in favor of the imminent agreement.
The source also says fuel that will enter Gaza as part of the deal will only be brought in during the ceasefire and that the IDF and Shin Bet will maintain the ability to continue gathering intelligence even during the pause in fighting.
Further, Israel will not allow Gazans to return to the northern part of the enclave where the IDF is operating.

x.com

x.com

50 for 300 ?

I wouldn’t do it. No way

 

[nao]

Perhaps South Africa would love to welcome HAMAS to their country then? I would love if these countries so outraged by Israel would propose a solution to this problem then. How would they get hostages back? How would they handle a massacre the level of Oct 7th? Everyone wants to scream ceasefire, but I find it hard to believe everyone screaming ceasefire would feel that way if it was their country attacked like Israel was on Oct. 7th.

Moo..it is because South Africa's history of apartheid that they take this stance....moo

 

[Momoffourboys]

50 for 300 ?

I wouldn’t do it. No way

If one of the 50 was your 4 year old daughter who was there alone..

They traded 1,000 prisoners for Gilad Shalit. The difference between good and evil.

 

[Elley Mae]

If one of the 50 was your 4 year old daughter who was there alone..

No deal, sorry

 

[Momoffourboys]

No deal, sorry

Its a tough position. I understand what you’re saying. But then I think of the little 4 year old baby who’s parents were murdered in front of her.

 

[Elley Mae]

Its like trading a basketball player for an arms dealer.

 

[IDK]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...ng-out-nations-enemies-elicits-outrage/[/URLi

Looks like it’s not just Gazan children being indoctrinated:

“An Israeli organization calling itself The Civil Front has sparked controversy on social media by producing a song in which children fete the “destruction” in Gaza and say “nothing will be left there” in a year’s time.”

“Israeli children sing “We will annihilate everyone in Gaza”. Song & video created by Israeli public relations firm Rosenbaum Communications. English subtiles added by The Electronic Intifada.”

 

[Dotta]

So,
the freed Palestinian children and women are to return to West Bank and East Jerusalem - according to the hostage deal, right?

But what if they are later arrested again?

Is it possible?

 

[Momoffourboys]

The Palestinian Islamic Jihad has announced that 76 y/o Katzir Hanna has Died due to Medical Complications; Hanna, a Mother of 3 and Grandmother of 6 was Kidnapped from the Town of Nir Oz in Southern Israel during the Hamas Surprise Attack on October 7th while her Husband was Killed on the spot. The PIJ had previously stated on November 9th that they were considering Releasing her on Humanitarian Grounds because of her requirement for Daily Life-Saving Medication, but they never did.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727060267807162441

 

[Vern]

When and if the US gets physically involved in this “war”, then whose children will be dying for Israel's actions?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/us-middle-east-danger-israel-hamas-war-mime-intl-hnk/index.html

For Israel's actions!!?

Lest we forget where this all began on 7 October 2023 with the outright massacre of 1400+ innocent persons.

War isn't fun; it never has been. Any civilian casualty is horrific. When actual things like carpet bombings happened during WW2 they brought devastation and death to hundreds of thousands of non-combattants, but the war against the Nazis and their genocide carried on --- I suspect most would agree that their eventual defeat was a good thing despite the human cost.

This is why munitions have improved etc, and why the conventions call for free movement of innocents to safe areas, and requirements to minimize the risk to them.

Israel has attempted to do so (notfications to evacuate, roof-knocking, texts, phne calls, setting up evacuation corridors etc) but absolutely tragic numbers are being seen. I think we can all agree on that.

Israel is being held to account for each and every one of those casualties. But it must be pointed out that 1 in 5 Hamas rockets are mis-firing and landing within Gaza - one even onto a hospital where the PHM (Palestinian Health Ministry - Hamas) put the death toll at 400-500 persons killed. Theyhave attacked via dropping mortars from drones and shooting at their own citizens evacuating. Some of those killed were/are directly on the hands of Hamas. Their Hamas terrorist death numbers are included. The IDF bombing the tunnel entrance which then resulted in all the rockets stored within it cooking off and exploding down three streets and collapsing at least four multi-story apartment buildings because Hamas chose to put those tunnels under a heavily residential area etc. How many were killed because Hamas prevented them from evacuating and leaving the area as the IDF requested? All to say that quite a few of those casualty numbers are directly on Hamas' hands and because they are a terrorist organization, we'll ever know the true count of what deaths are actually attributable to Israeli action.

We'll never know. Just know it isn't "all" of them.

 

[Dotta]

So,
the freed Palestinian children and women are to return to West Bank and East Jerusalem - according to the hostage deal, right?

But what if they are later arrested again?

Is it possible?

Answering myself hahaha

It is better, IMO, for those kids and women freed to emigrate.

Return to West Bank??
Where settlers run amok?

Scary!!!

JMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

For Israel's actions!!?

Lest we forget where this all began on 7 October 2023 with the outright massacre of 1400+ innocent persons.

War isn't fun; it never has been. Any civilian casualty is horrific. When actual things like carpet bombings happened during WW2 they brought devastation and death to hundreds of thousands of non-combattants, but the war against the Nazis and their genocide carried on --- I suspect most would agree that their eventual defeat was a good thing despite the human cost.

This is why munitions have improved etc, and why the conventions call for free movement of innocents to safe areas, and requirements to minimize the risk to them.

Israel has attempted to do so (notfications to evacuate, roof-knocking, texts, phne calls, setting up evacuation corridors etc) but absolutely tragic numbers are being seen. I think we can all agree on that.

Israel is being held to account for each and every one of those casualties. But it must be pointed out that 1 in 5 Hamas rockets are mis-firing and landing within Gaza - one even onto a hospital where the PHM (Palestinian Health Ministry - Hamas) put the death toll at 400-500 persons killed. The have attacked via dropping mortars from drones and shooting at their own citizens evacuating. Some of those killed were/are directly on the hands of Hamas. Their Hamas terrorist death numbers are included. The IDF bombing the tunnel entrance which then resulted in all the rockets stored within it cooking off and exploding down three streets and collapsing at least four multu-story apartment buildings because Hamas chose to put those tunnels under a heavily residential area etc. All to say that quite a few of those casulaty numbers are directly on Hamas' hands and because they are a terrorist organization, we'll ever know the true count of what deaths are actually attributable to Israeli action.

We'll never know. Just know it isn't "all" of them.

Have you seen a number released by “health ministry” for freedom fighters? Or are they included in civilians?