Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #3

[cottonweaver]

10:48 pm BST

Biden says addressing humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a priority

President Joe Biden said Friday that it’s a priority of his administration to address the unfolding humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip.

Speaking at an event in Philadelphia to promote a $7 billion program to kickstart development and production of hydrogen fuel in the U.S., Biden paused to note the deteriorating situation for Palestinians as Israel continues to bombard the strip in retaliation for last weekend’s attacks on Israel.

Biden said he’s directed his team to work with the governments in Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and other Arab nations and the United Nations to surge humanitarian relief to those impacted by the war.

“We can’t lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do Hamas,” Biden said. “And they’re suffering as a result as well.”
Biden again lashed out at Hamas, saying the militant group in control of Gaza makes the terrorist group Al-Qaida “look pure.”

Current US assessment is Israel 'not responsible' for Gaza hospital blast, White House says

The statement did not mention fuel, and it was not clear when aid would start flowing.

apnews.com

No idea whether Huff Post scoops ( or the interpretation) are reliable but noticed this one earlier

'SCOOP– Hours after Israel ordered an exodus in Gaza, State Department officials circulated internal warnings against 3 phrases: "de-escalation/ceasefire" "end to violence/bloodshed" "restoring calm" It's the latest sign the US won't urge Israeli restraint'

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[Vern]

Really? The order wasn't made until this morning.
Are you referring to Israel's evacuation of Israelis living near the frontier? ( 8th October)

screenshot from wikipedia timeline 2023 Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia
View attachment 453196

Here you go:

Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #2

2 min ago Number of people displaced in Gaza rises to 423,000 The number of people forced from their homes by the airstrikes soared 25% in a day, reaching 423,000 out of a population of 2.3 million, the United Nations said Thursday. Most crowded into U.N.-run schools. Families were cutting...

www.websleuths.com

 

[cottonweaver]

Here you go:

Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #2

2 min ago Number of people displaced in Gaza rises to 423,000 The number of people forced from their homes by the airstrikes soared 25% in a day, reaching 423,000 out of a population of 2.3 million, the United Nations said Thursday. Most crowded into U.N.-run schools. Families were cutting...

www.websleuths.com

thanks, there's no link there ( at the old websleuths post)
BBC 8th Oct link seems to say something quite different

 

[Friday Fan]

Updates regarding Day of Rage:

‘Day of jihad’ live updates: Pro-Palestine demonstrators burn Israeli flag across from UN

After Hamas’ terror attack against Israel, former Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal has called on Muslims to deliver a “Global Day of jihad” on Friday, Oct. 13. Follow the New York Post…

nypost.com

Sounds like most of the drama was overseas.

I was worried events here in the US would get violent.

The event in Manhattan seems alot like last Sunday's event. I didn't see the counter-protesters referenced though. The Party for Socialism and Liberation is crazy and I see they sponsored the event in Manhattan.
This NOT the same group Democratic Socialists of America that sponsored Sunday's protest.

There were some student groups. Yesterday, Columbia University had both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel in the same area, separated by LE. It looked peaceful though. UCLA had about 100 pro-Palestinian protesters. University of Florida had a discussion group lead by Palestinian students.

A New York City Council member was arrested for bringing a gun to protest at Brooklyn College NYC Councilwoman Inna Vernikov arrested for bringing gun to pro-Palestine protest, prompting calls for her ouster

 

[SouthAussie]

Kinda O/T, but earlier today when I was watching MSNBC’s field correspondent (cannot remember his name) reporting from the southern Lebanon border, I was struck by how beautiful the region was, despite the weird trench thing that delineates the border.

It seemed lovely and pastoral and it was hard to believe so much horror was nearby. This was right before that video of the journalists being killed and injured. Near that same spot.

<modsnip: Your "point" ^^is fine > I just have a hard time reconciling the two images. It’s awful.

I felt the same way when a post was put up further back of webcams in the area.
A beautiful blue sky day, the sun was shining, no hint of war in a few of the webcams.
It looked truly beautiful ... as if everyone should just go outside and enjoy the day.

 

[Vern]

thanks, there's no link there ( at the old websleuths post)
BBC 8th Oct link seems to say something quite different

I'll try it this way:

Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #2

2 min ago Number of people displaced in Gaza rises to 423,000 The number of people forced from their homes by the airstrikes soared 25% in a day, reaching 423,000 out of a population of 2.3 million, the United Nations said Thursday. Most crowded into U.N.-run schools. Families were cutting...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Chimera]

Homemade rockets and modified AK-47s: An annotated look at Hamas’ deadly arsenal

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/hamas-weapons-invs/index.html

Thanks for the cnn link and info; @vls12345 .

Link from above quoted post :

How the group manufactures the makeshift rockets is less known. In previous battles with Israel, Hamas was known to have fired rockets made of old water pipes, the researcher noted.

Hmm. "Water pipes", aka irrigation pipes ?
I'm wondering if anyone has given $$ or even the irrigation supplies to help Gaza, but in turn they may have used it for building weapons instead ?
And not to help their own people to build more farms and provide for themselves, and in doing so --better their lives ?
Imo.

Also this :
But former US officials say there is little question the massive stockpile of weapons used in Saturday’s attack was acquired and assembled with help from Iran.

“Hamas didn’t build the guidance system and those missiles in Gaza,” said retired Gen. Frank McKenzie, the former commander of US Central Command. “They got them from somewhere. And the technology assistance to put it together certainly came from Iran – where else would it have come from?”

Despite what might be said by Iran otherwise :

Iran's UN mission says Tehran not involved in Hamas attacks

Iran's mission to the United Nations said on Sunday that Tehran was not involved in one of the bloodiest attacks in Israel's history when Islamist group Hamas killed 700 Israelis and abducted dozens more.

www.reuters.com

Iran has made no secret of its backing for Hamas, funding and arming the group, and another Palestinian militant organization -- Islamic Jihad.

"We emphatically stand in unflinching support of Palestine; however, we are not involved in Palestine's response, as it is taken solely by Palestine itself," Iran's U.N. mission said.
Emphasis mine.

So, they've helped before (& might do it again ?), just that they did not in the specific attack on Israel Saturday ?
Alrighty then.
Omo.

 

[JennieM]

3m ago
Thousands of people are expected to march in a pro-Palestinian demonstration in central London on Saturday, as police warn that anyone showing support for Hamas or deviating from the route could face arrest, PA home has reported.

The Metropolitan Police Service will deploy more than 1,000 officers to police the demonstration, in which people will be marching in solidarity with Palestine and demanding Israel ends its occupation of Palestinian land.

British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said the UK was doing “everything we can to ensure the security of British citizens” after the Defence Secretary said it seemed “very likely” that there are British hostages in Gaza.

Three Britons are confirmed to have lost their lives during the weekend’s assault on Israel, but reports have suggested at least 17 could be among the casualties.

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says

www.theguardian.com

 

[Inthedetails]

Sounds like most of the drama was overseas.

I was worried events here in the US would get violent.

The event in Manhattan seems alot like last Sunday's event. I didn't see the counter-protesters referenced though. The Party for Socialism and Liberation is crazy and I see they sponsored the event in Manhattan.
This NOT the same group Democratic Socialists of America that sponsored Sunday's protest.

There were some student groups. Yesterday, Columbia University had both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel in the same area, separated by LE. It looked peaceful though. UCLA had about 100 pro-Palestinian protesters. University of Florida had a discussion group lead by Palestinian students.

A New York City Council member was arrested for bringing a gun to protest at Brooklyn College NYC Councilwoman Inna Vernikov arrested for bringing gun to pro-Palestine protest, prompting calls for her ouster

There were counter-protestors in Manhattan today. NYPD kept them separated.

 

[Inthedetails]

I posted the notification for them to evacute south (given on 8 October!!) earlier in the thread. I also posted the link to Palestinian State television then telling them to remain as "we live in our homes, we'll die in our homes" in the very same post.

I recall your posts about earlier notices to evacuate.

jmo

 

[SkyBoomer]

I felt the same way when a post was put up further back of webcams in the area.
A beautiful blue sky day, the sun was shining, no hint of war in a few of the webcams.
It looked truly beautiful ... as if everyone should just go outside and enjoy the day.

That is excellent advice. It is still light here-time to go for a walk and enjoy this sorta-Fall weather.

 

[Friday Fan]

There were counter-protestors in Manhattan today. NYPD kept them separated.

Oh I see a Pro-Israel group on NY Daily News now. (Maybe I didn't see it earlier or they updated their article)

Thousands of pro-Palestine supporters swarm NYC, face off with Israel backers on global ‘day of Jihad’

Thousands of pro-Palestine demonstrators swarmed NYC streets Friday afternoon, facing off with an Israeli contingent a fraction of its size on a global “day of Jihad.”

nypost.com

 

[SouthAussie]

3m ago
Thousands of people are expected to march in a pro-Palestinian demonstration in central London on Saturday, as police warn that anyone showing support for Hamas or deviating from the route could face arrest, PA home has reported.

The Metropolitan Police Service will deploy more than 1,000 officers to police the demonstration, in which people will be marching in solidarity with Palestine and demanding Israel ends its occupation of Palestinian land.

British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said the UK was doing “everything we can to ensure the security of British citizens” after the Defence Secretary said it seemed “very likely” that there are British hostages in Gaza.

Three Britons are confirmed to have lost their lives during the weekend’s assault on Israel, but reports have suggested at least 17 could be among the casualties.

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says

www.theguardian.com

The pro-Palestinian rally in Sydney is reportedly still going ahead tomorrow (Sunday). Even though the police have refused a permit for the event.

The police have urged people to stay away or be met with a large police contingency.

Now the police say they will be using "extraordinary powers" to tone down the event.



New South Wales police plan to use “extraordinary powers” to search protesters without reason and arrest and charge people who refuse to identify themselves at Sunday’s planned pro-Palestinian rally.

The premier, Chris Minns, has backed the police using the powers, saying they were justified given a pro-Palestine rally held on Monday “descended into racism” and “acts of violence” on the steps of the Sydney Opera House.

The NSW police acting commissioner, David Hudson, said he believed the threshold for using the powers introduced after the 2005 Cronulla riots had been met and he would seek to have them enabled before the rally in Sydney’s Hyde Park.

Sydney police plan to use ‘extraordinary’ powers to search pro-Palestinian protesters and demand ID

NSW police could ‘lock city down’ for Hyde Park rally but commissioner says force won’t go that far

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sillybilly]

But isn't this what ' we ' ( I expect most WSers on the Ukraine-Russia threads) would have said was illegal during a war quite recently?
Forced relocation? Am pretty sure it's against Geneva convention or something. ( can't remember exactly, I will go look it up)

Crimes against humanity include murder, extermination and deportation or forcible transfer of population “when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack”.

What are the rules of war – and how do they apply to the Israel-Gaza conflict?

International humanitarian law dictates the rules combatants should follow – with a central tenet that ‘civilians should not be targeted’

www.theguardian.com

ETA: Sorry if this has already been addressed. Just doing a drive-by posting here

Israel is not targeting the civilian population, they are targeting Hamas. According to International Humanitarian Law, Article 17, 1977 Additional Protocol II, they are making arrangements for the civilian population to relocate for their safety. (Site won't let me copy/paste so having to do a screenshot):

from: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/fr/customary-ihl/v2/rule129

 

[Friday Fan]

Last post I saw in here had him at a 2% approval rating after the attacks. It was 27% before the attacks

That's kinda scary. He's a hardliner and I'm afraid this 2% rating may be because he wasn't perceived as enough of a hardliner...
We will see.

 

[JennieM]

ETA: Sorry if this has already been addressed. Just doing a drive-by posting here

Israel is not targeting the civilian population, they are targeting Hamas. According to International Humanitarian Law, Article 17, 1977 Additional Protocol II, they are making arrangements for the civilian population to relocate for their safety. (Site won't let me copy/paste so having to do a screenshot):

from: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/fr/customary-ihl/v2/rule129

View attachment 453206

Hi Sillybilly, thank you for finding Article 17. I also mentioned forcible transfer in my post #1,093 where Jan Egeland, the Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council, said:

“The Israeli military demand that 1.2 million civilians in northern Gaza relocate to its south within 24 hours, absent of any guarantees of safety or return, would amount to the war crime of forcible transfer. It must be reversed.

“The collective punishment of countless civilians, among them children, women, and the elderly, in retaliation for acts of horrible terror undertaken by armed men is illegal under international law.

“My colleagues inside Gaza confirm that there are countless people in the northern parts who have no means to safely relocate under the constant barrage of fire.

“The loss of civilian lives caused by deliberate or indiscriminate use of force is a war crime for which the perpetrators will have to answer. We fear that Israel may claim that Palestinians who could not flee northern Gaza can be erroneously held as directly participating in hostilities, and targeted.

“The United States, the UK, the European Union, and other Western and Arab Nations who have influence over the Israeli political and military leadership must demand that the illegal and impossible order to relocate is immediately rescinded.”

The Israeli military claims the order to Palestinians “is for your own safety”.

I guess it’s questionable if there are satisfactory conditions of shelter, hygiene, health, safety and nutrition or whether they are being compelled to leave their own territory for reasons connected with the conflict. I have no further knowledge of forcible transfer in war situations or Article 17, just from what I have been reading today.

 

[JennieM]

A day of turmoil in Gaza​

It's coming up to 03:00 in Israel and Gaza and these are the latest developments:

• Palestinian civilians have been fleeing northern Gaza by car, on the back of trucks and on foot after an Israeli warning that civilians should move south inside 24 hours
• About 1.1 million people living in northern areas have been told to leave ahead of an expected ground offensive by Israeli forces
• The UN described the order as horrendous, while the US urged Israel to take every precaution to avoid killing civilians
• US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he was working with Israel to secure "safe areas" in Gaza
• Hamas fighters kidnapped at least 150 people and took them into Gaza during attacks on Israel a week ago which killed 1,300 people
• 1,900 people have been killed in Gaza since Israel launched retaliatory air strikes, authorities say
• A total blockade is being enforced on Gaza, with fuel, food and water running out
• A Reuters news agency journalist, Issam Abdallah, has been killed while working in southern Lebanon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

 

[JennieM]

21m ago
US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, has said he will “meet with Saudi partners to discuss Hamas’ terrorist attacks against Israel and the need to work together to prevent the conflict from spreading.”

Blinken is on a tour of six Arab nations on Friday to try to prevent war sweeping across the Middle East. There are fears that a wider conflict may erupt if Israel’s determination to crush Hamas leads to a slaughter in Gaza or an enforced exit of millions of Palestinians into Egypt.

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UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

1m ago
Reuters has a quick snap that the Israeli military says it has attacked a Hezbollah target in southern Lebanon in response to a launch from Lebanon.

More details on this as it emerges.

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says

www.theguardian.com

 

[SouthAussie]

1m ago
Reuters has a quick snap that the Israeli military says it has attacked a Hezbollah target in southern Lebanon in response to a launch from Lebanon.

More details on this as it emerges.

UN says tens of thousands have fled south in Gaza after Israel’s evacuation order – as it happened

More than 400,000 in Gaza were already internally displaced before Israel’s evacuation order, UN humanitarian office says

www.theguardian.com

The Reuters videographer was killed and others reporters were injured in southern Lebanon, reportedly by an Israeli missile.

I think they must have started firing on Lebanon earlier than just now. Maybe they are going to confirm that is what they have started doing/have done?


A Reuters video journalist was killed and six other journalists injured in southern Lebanon on Friday when missiles fired from the direction of Israel struck them, according to a Reuters videographer who was at the scene.

Reuters journalist killed in Lebanon in missile fire from direction of Israel

A Reuters video journalist was killed and six other journalists injured in southern Lebanon on Friday when missiles fired from the direction of Israel struck them, according to a Reuters videographer who was at the scene.

www.reuters.com