Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #5

[Momoffourboys]

The Pentagon says it has proof that Israel was not responsible for the Gaza hospital explosion @joel_rayburn
gives an update on what U.S. officials are saying and the current threat to American troops in the Middle East

https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1715035441118728414?s=20

(Joel Rayburn was US Special Envoy to Syria)

 

[Gypsy Road]

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

As desperate Palestinians in sealed-off Gaza try to find refuge under Israel’s relentless bombardment in retaliation for Hamas’ brutal Oct. 7 attack, many ask why neighboring Egypt or other Arab countries don’t take them in.

apnews.com

 

[Vern]

Very good stuff here. I hope it is not lost on world media.

I hope not too.

It still doesn't explain though why foreign nationals and dual-foreign citizens are not being allowed to walk through/cross through the Rafah gate crossing to escape from the conflict in Gaza and return to their own homes wherever they may be.

I keep looking for Egypt's explanation for that factor and I am unable to find anything on it.

 

[Chimera]

They wouldn't have to 'expel' dual-citizens as those waiting and trying to get out of Gaza are trying to get to their homes elsewhere.

For some reason, Egypt has yet to allow them, or any foreign nationals who were in Gaza working on 7/10, to depart the Gaza. That's 12 days ago. I can't figure out why they can't leave as footage show that the gate is clearly accessible and traversable by foot.

There is, I fear, another agenda at play here.

Bbm.
Yes, totally agree.

Also thanks for clarifying my comment.
I know what I was trying to get across but worded it incorrectly.

 

[Chimera]

I hope not too.

It still doesn't explain though why foreign nationals and dual-foreign citizens are not being allowed to walk through/cross through the Rafah gate crossing to escape from the conflict in Gaza and return to their own homes wherever they may be.

I keep looking for Egypt's explanation for that factor and I am unable to find anything on it.

Makes no sense, as they'd be passing through -- not staying permanently.

 

[PrairieWind]

Definitely not. Arab countries support the cause of the Palestinians to have their own state, as was intended 75 years ago. They fear that residents of Gaza will be driven off their territory and never be able to return.

"President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi said Thursday that the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip must stay steadfast and "remain on their land," warning of "the liquidation" of the Palestinian cause...The Palestinian cause is the issue of all Arabs"
https://www.sis.gov.eg/Story/187293/Sisi-Palestinians-must-'remain-on-their-land',-contacts-ongoing-for-de-escalation-in-Gaza-war?lang=en-us

This is known as the "two state solution", where both Israel and Palestine have their own countries. It's been the subject of international attempts at negotiation for decades.

JMO

The other Arab nations want a Palestinian solution that does NOT include them taking in Palestinians. There is nothing sacred about Gaza really. Egypt as of yesterday seems open to the idea of moving the Gaza Palestinians from Gaza perhaps to the Negev, temporarily, but NOT to Egypt. And King Abudulla of Jordan has likewise squashed any talk to moving Gazans to Egypt (for fear that then leads to Jordan).
The problem with the 2-state solution is that Hamas, which controls Gaza, absolutely and expressly rejects a 2 state solution. You can't negotiate when one party says it will never accept Israel. Hamas must be removed from the situation, but it is almost impossible for that to ever happen.

 

[Cedars]

There has to be some apprehension in other nations that do not want Palestinians, if Hamas is allowed to thrive within the Palestinian residents -- and tbh despite this recent terrible conflict I do not see Palestinians turning against Hamas. Silence from the people of Gaza, so far.
This is what is not changing and it's sad.
The Palestinians can believe in their cause; without supporting any violent organizations like Hamas or independent groups that are causing so much suffering.
Not saying it can't turn around.
The people find strength to turn against their oppressors-- Hamas and co.

Still ... many countries don't seem to want to create a space within their own country for the Palestinians to live there ?
They would not be liquidated if they lived in Jordan, for instance.
The Palestinians could coexist in Jordan and be a thriving member of that nation.
Or other Arab countries could help them by allowing them to create their own area within that country ?
Gaza is small and cramped for that many people; there'd be more space elsewhere.
Omo.

As you note, the situation is very complex. IMO, it cannot be solved with 'off the top of my head', instant solutions - presto magico, problem solved.

Evidently, Israel was pretty comfortable with the situation in the Gaza Strip, which is why Hamas militants were able to get through the border and commit the atrocities.

So that sure won't happen again, Israel will not let that happen again.

While eliminating Hamas is the goal, the idea that it has to happen instantly is, IMO, the problem. Things don't just get resolved overnight.

The US did not defeat al-Queda in a week, a month, or a year after 9/11. They only just recently, finally withdrew from Afganistan. They only killed bin Laden 10 years after 9/11.

"Act in haste, repent at leisure".

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Another depressing thread/item in the Economist
Defence Editor ( link is attached to thread)

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[Vern]

Bbm.
Yes, totally agree.

Also thanks for clarifying my comment.
I know what I was trying to get across but worded it incorrectly.

It's been a long 12 days. I don't even have to imagine that has been an infintely longer 12 days for innocent Gazan civilians and innocent Israeli's hunkering down from bombs and missiles.

 

[Cedars]

I hope not too.

It still doesn't explain though why foreign nationals and dual-foreign citizens are not being allowed to walk through/cross through the Rafah gate crossing to escape from the conflict in Gaza and return to their own homes wherever they may be.

I keep looking for Egypt's explanation for that factor and I am unable to find anything on it.

https://www.sis.gov.eg/Story/187380/Shoukry-Attempts-to-distort-Egyptian-stance-on-Rafah-crossing-%E2%80%9Cunacceptable%E2%80%9D?lang=en-us

 

[Arkay]

British Ambassador to the US
how helpful is the language ( It hadn't occurred to me wrt deconflicting)

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He’s asking “does all Hamas have to be wiped out?”

This makes no sense to me.

He thinks the language is “extreme?”

IMO Hamas is a conflagration…if you extinguish just some of the fire, the remaining sparks will burst right back into flame and still have the capacity to destroy the innocent.

To each post informing us of another Hamas leader being killed, my reaction is “bye.”
Good riddance to them all.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Another depressing thread/item in the Economist
Defence Editor ( link is attached to thread)

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65%?!!!
That is beyond depressing.
Ugh.

 

[Cedars]

As with anything in the Middle East, it gets pretty "complex":

- Collectively, Arab countries have accepted several million Palestinian refugees. These refugees have lived in their host nations for generations.

-But today, nobody wants anymore refugees- period. The answer is still "no" even if the refugees are culturally and religiously similar to the potential host nation.

- Palestinians have pulled enough stunts over the years to cause welcome mats to be rolled. Big stunts have included trying to overthrow the Jordanian government.

Some medium stunts were culture clashes. Open alcohol and hash sales, bars, and prostitution were permissible to secular PLO leadership- but very offensive to conservative Shia muslims in Lebanon. PLO leaders also exempted fighters from local prosecution under Lebanese law (sounds provacative, but the US has done that as well) and also exempted them from Lebanese taxes.

Small stunts are what occur the world over when thousands of armed, bored and loosely supervised 18-35 year old men congregate: Some drift into criminal activity, some simply become "unproductive humans", and some just act like jerks.

Possibly, but equally, I don't think Arab countries have any intention of assisting Israel to solve their situation by eliminating all Arab residents from Gaza, and allowing Israel to take it over.

ETA: this is what the intention of a 'siege' used to be, in the middle ages when that's how diplomacy was conducted.

JMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

The US State Department on Thursday issued a "worldwide caution security alert" for overseas American citizens, citing increased tensions in various locations around the world and the potential for extremist attacks.

https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1715037416585601406?s=20

 

[Arkay]

I linked in early this morning a couple of Israeli releases where they took out Hamas Leaders in Rafah. A woman leader in Hamas was one of them.

Great! Good riddance!

Not to be facetious but I wonder if their ideology about getting 72 virgins in Paradise if they die as “martyrs” also applies to women?

Because, strictly in my opinion, 72 male virgins sounds like a lot of work!

 

[Sundog]

Sunak playing for time, imo ( UK intelligence service will already know, just as US does. * )

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* 'Washington’s assessment that Israel wasn’t behind the blast at the hospital drew, in part, on communications intercepts and other intelligence gathered by the U.S., defense officials said.” U.S., Experts Say Evidence Suggests Palestinian Militants’ Rocket Hit Gaza Hospital


BY THE WAY
- notice that the WSJ is, again, using the word ' militants' not terrorists in their title. Strange that the IDF doesn't put WSJ on their list

Since it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad organization that is responsible for the bombling of the hospital in Gaza, and not Hamas, I wonder if the Wall Street Journal used the term "militants" for PIJ since they are not part of the Hamas terrorist organization.

 

[cottonweaver]

He’s asking “does all Hamas have to be wiped out?”

This makes no sense to me.

He thinks the language is “extreme?”

IMO Hamas is a conflagration…if you extinguish just some of the fire, the remaining sparks will burst right back into flame and still have the capacity to destroy the innocent.

To each post informing us of another Hamas leader being killed, my reaction is “bye.”
Good riddance to them all.

remember when the US helped to broker peace in Northern Ireland? IRA terrorists & Sinn Fein - the political wing was one of the parties which made the Good Friday Agreement possible.

 

[cottonweaver]

One minister is asked 'If Israel does manage to defeat and overthrow Hamas in Gaza, what comes next? '

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[Friday Fan]

One minister is asked 'If Israel does manage to defeat and overthrow Hamas in Gaza, what comes next? '

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I don't think this means anything. They're catching an agriculture minister off-guard. No one would ever interview someone from the USDA (Agriculture) about Iraq or Afghanistan. They wouldn't know a darn thing except plant quarantine, animals..etc. gotta be careful with those dogs brought in

 

[cottonweaver]

again, big pinch of salt but placing it here anyway, so at least there's a record for when they eventually do the investigation report & release that

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