Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #6

[MyBelle]

Bingo.

Concussion force from airstrikes can often cause damage to nearby infrastructure or persons (called "collateral" damage).

Nations that comply with the LoAC and the Conventions employ "targetting protocols" (Joint Targetting) in order to minimize collateral damage --- a procedure put in place to verify and ensure the target is indeed a legitimate 'military' target etc prior to striking it. They also employ the use of 'smart' munitions or JDAMs (precision/guided) in their strikes. Israel does all of these things in order to minimize collateral damage to civilians and protected sites. This equates to "Discriminate Fire/Discriminate Targetting". Fire that discriminates between "legit military" targets and those that are not.

I note that absolutely zero of the Hamas missiles being fired follow any of the above targetting or munitions protcols. This equates to "Indiscriminate Targetting". Simply put, they follow no LoAC or Geneva Protocols intended to minimize collateral damage and to preserve civilian non-combattants or protected sites. War Crimes. They hit an Israeli Hospital last week ... not a peep.

When an enemy commits war crimes by placing legitimate military targets in, under, around and on top of legally protected sites, that directly turns that legally protected site into a legitimate miltary target in accordance with the conventions. That is exactly why the placement of these things at/next to those sites is a war crime.

Nations who comply with the LoAC and Conventions will still attempt to minimize the collateral damage to those locations/civilians by doing things like:

- ensuring classes are complete for the day and students out of the school before taking out the missile launch site on it's roof or beside it (as the IDF did in Lebanon just the ther day);

- waiting until a train full of passengers crosses over a bridge before taking out the bridge (anyone recall those airstrikes in the Blakans);

- roof knocking on buildings to allow innocents to get out before the strike comes in on the communications facility that's been set up in one of it's apartments etc.

- etc, etc, etc

Ground Forces:

Always come in after airstrikes have taken out the enemy HQs (Head Quarters / top persons), Communication Facilities, Missile Launch Sites etc. IE: after they've taken out the major threats to their own 'boots-on-ground' (infantry). No difference in this war from any others.

TV news just reported the IDF is investigating the hit on the Christian church because it IS considered a war crime to hit hospitals, churches, schools.

JMO

Churches condemn air strike on Greek Orthodox building in Gaza - Vatican News

An air strike on a building adjacent to St. Porphyrios Greek Orthodox Church has killed several people taking shelter there, and has drawn strong ...

www.vaticannews.va

In a strongly-worded statement, the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate condemned the strike.

A statement released 19 October stressed that “targeting churches and its affiliated institutions, in addition to the shelters they provide to protect innocent citizens, especially children and women who lost their homes as a result of the Israeli bombing of residential areas during the past thirteen days, constitutes a war crime that cannot be ignored.”

The World Council of Churches (WCC) has also strongly condemned the attack.

“We condemn this unconscionable attack on a sacred compound and call upon the world community to enforce protections in Gaza for sanctuaries of refuge, including hospitals, schools, and houses of worship,” said the WCC general secretary Rev. Jerry Pillay. “Our prayers go out for healing to all those wounded, along with our condolences to Patriarch Theophilos II and all our Greek Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ.”

 

[Ontario Mom]

IMO the first to be released had to be Americans to prove something to Pres Biden.

I, also, think that Hamas needs supplies and now that they were released, the 20 truckloads will go through And they will take most (if not all) of the supplies.

Right. "Humanitarian" reasons my eye.

Anyone buying that needs to give their head a shake and re-watch the horrific, graphic videos coming out of there over the last 13 days.

These Americans are just pawns in a game.

 

[cottonweaver]

Am not endorsing it, I haven't read it yet. Just posting it in case someone might be interested. needs zooming-in

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715422425142173918

 

[JennieM]

5m ago

Palestine Red Crescent says Israeli army demanding evacuation of Al-Quds Hospital​

The Palestinian Red Crescent said its operations at Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza City face an “imminent threat” after the Israeli military ordered the hospital’s evacuation.

The PRCS posted in an “urgent appeal” to social media saying that the hospital is “a sanctuary for over 400 patients and around 12,000 displaced civilians”.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715415685096931626

Biden ‘didn’t hear the full question’ on whether Israel should delay Gaza ground assault, White House says – as it happened

White House says US president was only commenting on whether he wanted to see more hostages released

www.theguardian.com

Hoping this one doesn’t get hit by a misfire in a few days’ time.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Live update: IDF says it killed Hamas engineer in Gaza earlier today

The IDF says Mahmoud Sabih headed a unit that developed weapons for the terror group, including drones, and had “exchanged knowledge with other terror groups throughout the Middle East.”

IDF says it killed Hamas engineer in Gaza earlier today

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[SkyBoomer]

Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinian civilians

Seems like nobody does.

 

[Elley Mae]

When it’s reported that civilians have been killed does that exclude hamas members? Are they not civilians as well.

 

[JennieM]

Gunfire, chants punctuate funeral for 13 in West Bank

TULKAREM, West Bank — Militants carried rifles and shots rang out Friday during a funeral in the West Bank for 13 people killed in a battle with Israeli troops in the Nur Shams refugee camp.

Some of the bodies carried through the streets of Tulkarem were draped in the flags of the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad militant groups.

Chants of “There is no God but Allah, and the martyrs are the beloved ones of Allah,” were punctuated by the crack of gunshots.

Five of the Palestinians killed were minors, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.

An Israeli border police officer was also killed in the fighting, Israeli authorities said.

Live updates: Hamas frees 2 US hostages, even as Israel airstrikes continue in southern Gaza

Israel says <a href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-ed6875f15ea0d2bc196e4033b54b7194" data-cms-id="56ecc782-1b19-316c-bdd2-2024b773d5f8" data-cms-href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-ed6875f15ea0d2bc196e4033b54b7194"...

apnews.com

 

[Cedars]

Right. "Humanitarian" reasons my eye.

Anyone buying that needs to give their head a shake and re-watch the horrific, graphic videos coming out of there over the last 13 days.

These Americans are just pawns in a game.

IMO, it is not the fighters in the tunnels who are making these decisions.

Just as in any army, the foot soldiers are sent out to do the killing, the Generals/Colonels, etc stay out of combat and make decisions and give orders.

The ones making decisions and giving orders are consulting with many outside players who support them. They make decisions strategically, not hot-headedly.

It is exactly the same for Israel: the soldiers are not making decisions, they are following orders.

JMO

 

[Vern]

TV news just reported the IDF is investigating the hit on the Christian church because it IS considered a war crime to hit hospitals, churches, schools.

JMO

RSBM:

Of course they will investigate it because it IS considered a war crime to hit those protected sites usually.

The investigation will determine :

- If they actually "hit" a protected site or whether that protected site received collateral damage from a strike that was actually nearby; (if so, no war crime) and
- If it's determined that if they actually did intentionally target the church, whether it was a legitimate military target at the time due to placement of launch sites, weapons, munitions in, above, over or under it (which would turn it into a non-protected site for tagetting, thus not a war crime)
- Only if it was "intentionaly targetted" and "of no military value" would it qualify as a potential war crime. I use "potential war crime" because, just as experienced with the tragic hospital strike the other day, the potential still exists for a failure of munitions that causes an unintentional strike upon a protected site - an "accident" if you will.

Israel has the footage of the strike. They know exactly where their bomb landed.They'll now review it all and put it out there. Just like they did here with the "residential area" that was struck without roofknocks:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712866928157401176

 

[JennieM]

When it’s reported that civilians have been killed does that exclude hamas members? Are they not civilians as well.

Yes, it does exclude them. They are not civilians, they are terrorists!

 

[sds71]

the two American hostages released by Hamas are Judith Raanan and her daughter Natalie

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715427320079515743

 

[Gypsy Road]

So, just asking where all of the money is going to come from...we have aging, crumbling infrastructure all over the United States.

These are America's 10 worst states for infrastructure

America's infrastructure, from roads to bridges, power and broadband internet, is in bad shape in many states. But the following states rank as the worst.

www.cnbc.com

Is it the "job" of the United States to be the "Daddy" of the world?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/us-middle-east-danger-israel-hamas-war-mime-intl-hnk/index.html

Why isn't this a UN issue? .

U.N. Security Council fails to produce statement on Israel attack - UPI.com

An emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council has failed to produce a joint statement concerning the attack on Israel, despite the United States calling on member nations to condemn Hamas.

www.upi.com

I hear what you are saying, and someone more informed and better educated on the subject can explain much better, but there are a lot of reasons why we help other countries. One - It’s very critical that we help stabilize this region, for humanitarian reasons and also defense reasons. Some day we might also be in the same predicament. We can not let terrorists take over the world.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/presidents-israel-cnn/index.html

 

[JennieM]

Satellite images show impact of airstrikes on Gaza

The misery of life in Gaza can be seen from space.

The destruction and impact from Israeli airstrikes in retaliation for the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas militants is visible in satellite imagery of blocks leveled by missiles and smoke rising over the blast zones — and also in more subtle photos.

Images by Maxar Technologies showed people sheltering in the courtyards at two schools in Gaza City and one in Deir al Balah on Thursday.

A tractor appeared to be overturning fresh soil to make way for new graves as the Marzouq Street cemetery expands in Gaza City.

An overview of Shifa Hospital showed where tents were set up in what used to be a grassy, tree-covered area next to the hospital. Some hospitals have set up tents to treat the wounded and temporarily house the dead.

Along a stretch of road near the beach, a series of round craters marked the spots where airstrikes hit the dirt and didn’t flatten homes.

Live updates: Hamas frees 2 US hostages, even as Israel airstrikes continue in southern Gaza

Israel says <a href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-ed6875f15ea0d2bc196e4033b54b7194" data-cms-id="56ecc782-1b19-316c-bdd2-2024b773d5f8" data-cms-href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-ed6875f15ea0d2bc196e4033b54b7194"...

apnews.com

 

[Momoffourboys]

Translated from Hebrew by Google
Yehudit and Nathalie Ra'anan are the abductees who were released from Hamas captivity https://bit.ly/3S4nOnZ

https://x.com/N12News/status/1715427781314572377?s=20

 

[Elley Mae]

Hamas releases two American-Israeli hostages: Judith and Natalie Raanan

Hamas releases two American-Israeli hostages: Judith and Natalie Raanan

According to a statement on the Hamas Telegram channel, the hostages were released for humanitarian reasons.

m.jpost.com

 

[JennieM]

The children taken hostage by Hamas​

Israel says more than 20 of the hostages taken by Hamas are children.
These are the names and stories of the under 18-year-olds who were taken - confirmed by the BBC, or credibly reported.

Ofri, 10, Yuval, 8 and Oria Brodutch, 4: The children were at Kfar Aza, a kibbutz near the border with Gaza, when Hamas attacked and they were taken.

Daphna, 15, and Ella Elyakim, 8: They were seen in a video being held in their home in Nahal Oz kibbutz by Hamas militants

Ethan Vahalomy, 12: The teenager was taken when gunmen burst into the family home.

Noam, 15 and Alma Or, 13: They were seen by a neighbour being dragged out of their home in Kibbutz Be’eri.

Naveh, 8, and Yahel Shoham, 3: Along with their parents, the two siblings were kidnapped from their home in Kibbutz Be’eri.

Noam Avigdori, 12: Along with her mother, and several other relatives, the teenager was taken by Hamas.

Ariel, 3, and Kfri Bibas, 9-month-old: The two children were pictured being held by their mother, Shiri Bibas, as they were taken by Hamas militants.

Erez, 12 and Sahar Calderon, 16: Along with several other family members, they were taken from Kibbutz Nir Oz.

Natalie Raanan, 17: The teenager was visiting Israel with her mother from Illinois. They were in Kibbutz Nahal Oz when it was attacked and neighbours saw them being taken by Hamas.

Raz, 5, and Aviv Asher, 3: The children were taken along with their mother Doron while staying with relatives near the Gaza border

Click here to read our full list of the hostages taken by Hamas

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67165505

 

[JennieM]

1h ago
Patrick Wintour

The war in the Middle East could expand in unpredictable and dangerous ways if Israel further increases its attacks on Gaza, Iran’s most senior diplomat in the UK has warned.

Mehdi Hosseini Matin, the Iranian chargé d’affaires, said that if this happened it was possible that UK interests would be affected. But he insisted Iran had no control over the “resistance forces” in the region, who he said would make their own decisions independently of Tehran.

At a rare press briefing at the Iranian embassy, Matin said:

The situation in the Middle East is very dangerous and very volatile. Every movement by the Israeli regime including an attack against the people of Gazadefinitely escalates the situation and will be expanded to other areas. No one can predict what will happen exactly.

The briefing underscores Iran’s efforts to show it is working in conjunction with Arab states and trying to publicly position Israel as the aggressor.

Biden ‘didn’t hear the full question’ on whether Israel should delay Gaza ground assault, White House says – as it happened

White House says US president was only commenting on whether he wanted to see more hostages released

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gypsy Road]

Seems like nobody does.

Why do you say that? I see many people across the world who sympathize with what the civilian Palestinians are going through. Me included. And those aid trucks didn’t fill up by themselves. People do care about all the innocent people who are living in these horrible conditions. But it’s also hugely complicated.

 

[cottonweaver]

The dirty dozen ( well, there's six in this link)

Hamas: Who are the group's most prominent leaders?

A brief guide to some of the leading figures in the group behind the attacks on Israel.

www.bbc.co.uk