Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #7

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  • #901
When we see a parent abusing their child, do we all shrug and say 'they shouldn't do that' and walk away? Or do we intervene?

JMO
I imagine it all more like this:

I own a property we'll call "House of Vern" (HOV). I have my own water supply, power supply, fuel supply and a shed on my property. I do my own grocery shopping.

My neighbour we'll call "House of Hammy" (HOH). Their property is fenced, but they have a gate with our shared neighbour we'll call Egie and 3 gates in the fence with my property. They also have their own water supply (desalination plants X 3), Power supply (1 X power plant), fuel supply via their fence gate with Egie. HOV allows HOH to get additional groceries and fuel via the gates to my property. House of Vern also allows them to run a hose from one of my faucets because it's closer to their garden so helps them out some. They also have a shed on their property with a tunnel running from their house to it.

House of Hammy continuosly lobs molotov cocktails and grenades over the fence aimed at my house and shed. One day, a bunch of male members of the HOH sneak onto my property and rape, torture, and murder a couple of my grandparents, my pregnant sister and her unborn baby, some cousins and take a couple of my kids, sisters and a grandparent over onto their property.

In return, I undo my water hose and put locks on the gate. They'll have to now use their own power plant and water plant exclusively. They'll have to also get their food and fuel solely through the gate of our shared neighbour Egie.

Egie though knows what these neighbours have done and locks their own gate and only allows sporadic delivery of water and food through the gate. Meanwhile male members of the HOH spark up the generators in their shed and seem to be well-fed and watered out there in that shed and even though no fuel is allowed through the gate their geerator and shed-lights are running non-stop. Eventually their power plant runs out of fuel and the remainder of Hammy's fmily still living in the house begin running out of food and water while their male relatives continue lobbing even more molotv cocktails and grenades over the fence.

All the neighbours on the street start complaining that House of Vern is causing a humanitarian disaster within the House of Hammy property. Well, no HOV is not. HOV is legally under no obligation whasoever to provide HOH with my fuel, water and food especially since doing so will just allow HOH the means to prolong this nasty dispute and continue loading up their molotov cocktails and grenades (and keeping my relatives hostage) to fire at my property.

Meanwhile HOH runs out of fuel to run their power supply to the house, but that generator is still going full blazes back in the shed. Egie and HOV are being insistent that that no fuel crosses through their gate into HOH's property because doing so will only prolong the authorities from going in and capturing the HOH murderers to hold them accountable for what they've done and to get my relatives back.

All the while, the same usual suspects keep yelling that this is all HOVs fault and that HOV should just give it up and allow the murders to remain running rampant. Simply not going to happen.

If this happened on your street would you expect authorities to just say, "Let the murderers be. Hopefully they'll release your relatives eventually." Or do you expect the authorities to intervene and get your relatives being held hostage back ... and to arrest the murders to hold them responsible?
 
  • #902
  • #903
....
A prominent hedge fund billionaire has declared students protesting Israel have 'sh*t for brains' - after thousands descended on his alma mater Wednesday in support of Palestinians.
....
We have one reliable ally in the Middle East - that’s Israel,' said the chairman and CEO of Omega Advisors, a New York-based investment firm that runs over $3.3 billion in assets.

'We only have one democracy in the Middle East. That’s Israel,' he continued. 'And we have one economy tolerant of different people - gays, lesbians, etc. And that’s Israel.

'So,' he proclaimed, 'I have no idea what these young kids are doing.'

When asked what he thought of what transpired at Columbia earlier in the day - as well as what's been happening at several other schools across the US - Cooperman simply said: 'I think these kids at the colleges have sh*t for brains.'

The curt response from the Columbia business grad - who is worth a reported $2.8billion - seemed to take Claman aback, shortly after she cited Cooperman's Polish-Jewish heritage and the fact that his parents were both immigrants.

While attempting to craft a response, Cooperman interrupted her a second time - before detailing what he called 'his true shame' about the situation.

He said: 'Now, the real shame is I’ve given to Columbia, probably about $50 million over many years.'

He went on to reveal his plans of ceasing any more donations to the Manhattan institution.

'I’m going to suspend my giving,' he said, before adding: 'I’ll give to other organizations.'
 
  • #904
I imagine it all more like this:

I own a property we'll call "House of Vern" (HOV). I have my own water supply, power supply, fuel supply and a shed on my property. I do my own grocery shopping.

My neighbour we'll call "House of Hammy" (HOH). Their property is fenced, but they have a gate with our shared neighbour we'll call Egie and 3 gates in the fence with my property. They also have their own water supply (desalination plants X 3), Power supply (1 X power plant), fuel supply via their fence gate with Egie. HOV allows HOH to get additional groceries and fuel via the gates to my property. House of Vern also allows them to run a hoose from one of my faucets because it's closer to their garden so helps them out some. They also have a shed on their property with a tunnel running from their house to it.

House of Hammy continuosly lobs molotov cocktails and grenades over the fence aimed at my house and shed. One day, a bunch of male members of the HOH sneak onto my property and rape, torture, and murder a couple of my grandparents, my pregnant sister and her unborn baby, some cousins and take a couple of my kids, sisters and a grandparent over onto their property.

In return, I undo my water hose and put locks on the gate. They'll have to now use their own power plant and water plant exclusively. They'll have to also get their food and fuel solely through the gate of our shared neighbour Egie.

Egie though knows what these neighbours have done and locks their own gate and only allows sporadic delivery of water and food through the gate. Meanwhile male members of the HOH spark up the generators in their shed and seem to be well-fed and watered out there in that shed and even though no fuel is allowed through the gate their geerator and shed-lights are running non-stop. Eventually their power plant runs out of fuel and the remainder of Hammy's fmily still living in the house begin running out of food and water while their male relatives continue lobbing even more molotv cocktails and grenades over the fence.

All the neighbours on the street start complaining that House of Vern is causing a humanitarian disaster within the House of Hammy property. Well, no HOV is not. HOV is legally under no obligation whasoever to provide HOH with my fuel, water and food especially since doing so will just allow HOH the means to prolong this nasty dispute and continue loading up their molotov cocktails and grenades (and keeping my relatives hostage) to fire at my property.

Meanwhile HOH runs out of fuel to run their power supply to the house, but that generator is still going full blazes back in the shed. Egie and HOV are being insistent that that no fuel crosses through their gate into HOH's property because doing so will only prolong the authorities from going in and capturing the HOH murderers to hold them accountable for what they've done and to get my relatives back.

All the while, the same usual suspects keep yelling that this is all HOVs fault and that HOV should just give it up and allow the murders to remain running rampant. Simply not going to happen.

If this happened on your street would you expect authorities to just say, "Let the murderers be. Hopefully they'll release your relatives eventually." Or do you expect the authorities to intervene and get your relatives being held hostage back ... and to arrest the murders to hold them responsible?
Sure.
But didn't HOV take HOH's place and build a house there? :rolleyes:

The only way for neighbours to exist is a peaceful way.
Compromise is key.

JMO
 
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  • #905
  • #906

Biden’s Palestinian death toll skepticism ‘fair’: Gen. David Petraeus​

  • Biden: ‘I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using’
  • Petraeus: Biden’s skepticism is ‘fair’ due to prior 'disinformation campaigns'
  • The Biden administration is pressing Israel to outline its plan for Gaza
 
  • #907
Sure.
But didn't HOV take HOH's place and build a house there? :rolleyes:
Nope. Way back in 1948 - the day after I bought my property, HOH and our other neighbours attacked my property in a war because the didn't like my religion. I won that war and some property so theirs got smaller. HOH and a few neighbours who helped them won't tell you that though. Quite a few of the other neighbours have made peace with me since.

Israel was one day old. One day.

To be certain, since the inception of Israel the stated goal of the PLO, now also Hamas, has been "not one square inch" aka "From the Jordan River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free".

14 May 1948: Israeli Declaration of Independance

15 May 1948: Arab-Israeli War - Morning: Syria, Egypt, Iraq and (Trans)Jordan military forces enter and take control of the Arab areas and attack Jewish Settlements and Israeli Forces. As a direct result of this war - that Israel did not start, the victor (Israel) managed to retain the area set aside for the Jewish State and had won around 60% of the Arab state lands.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1np9bm
 
  • #908
Remember also, after the hospital blast - they also said they buried the mass causalities the very next day. How did they identify the 100’s of casualties from the blast in less than 24 hours? Didn’t sound true or possible given the chaotic circumstances.

U.S. officials say the death toll from the Gaza hospital blast is between 100-300, according to early assessments.​


Al-Ahli Arab hospital blast: US intelligence report estimates death toll to be 100 to 300​

An unclassified US intelligence assessment, provided to the AFP news agency by a Capitol Hill source, estimates the number of people killed at the hospital on Tuesday night at the “low end of the 100-to-300 spectrum.”

“We are still assessing the likely casualty figures and our assessment may evolve, but this death toll still reflects a staggering loss of life,” the document said.


_______________

US intelligence can count pretty fast too!


_____________________________________________



What the Palestinians did with the help of hospital workers: Photograph, take blood sample, assign a number, put body in a shroud and immediately bury. They don't have time identify everyone because they always bury bodies the next day. Embalming is forbidden. You don't have to identify to count.

 
  • #909
A Two-State soloution is the most widely proposed as the "ideal", but if it ever is achieved, I don't expect their neighbours to kick back and be content with it. History has shown time and time again, that they will not be. T
Two state, three state, or quad state, as complex as the situation is, I dont think there will ever be a perfect solution.

As a side note, the first British general (not a starry eyed peace activist) sent to eliminate the IRA from Northern Ireland informed the British Prime Minister of the following:

1. The IRA was never going to defeat the British Army and....

2. There was no military solution to the conflict. Rather, fundamental changes were needed in the way local protestants were allowed to run the place.

I have a feeling that giving Israel the cash to build a bigger, better and badder wall will not militarily resolve the problem either.
 
  • #910
A Hamas delegation led by a senior member of the Palestinian militant group’s leadership has flown to Russia, according to RIA Novosti.

The Russian state newswire said Moussa Abu Marzouk and other members of the Hamas delegation were in Moscow, citing a source on Thursday, and offering no further details.

Russia’s foreign ministry confirmed the Hamas delegation was in Moscow but did not say how long they had been there or who they were meeting.

 
  • #911

U.S. officials say the death toll from the Gaza hospital blast is between 100-300, according to early assessments.​


Al-Ahli Arab hospital blast: US intelligence report estimates death toll to be 100 to 300​

An unclassified US intelligence assessment, provided to the AFP news agency by a Capitol Hill source, estimates the number of people killed at the hospital on Tuesday night at the “low end of the 100-to-300 spectrum.”

“We are still assessing the likely casualty figures and our assessment may evolve, but this death toll still reflects a staggering loss of life,” the document said.


_______________

US intelligence can count pretty fast too!


_____________________________________________



What the Palestinians did with the help of hospital workers: Photograph, take blood sample, assign a number, put body in a shroud and immediately bury. They don't have time identify everyone because they always bury bodies the next day. Embalming is forbidden. You don't have to identify to count.

Not denying that…but how do you identify hundreds of people in 24 hours? Their personal identities? Seems impossible given the mass destruction they claim and chaos. They gonna dig them up and identify their personal identities later?
 
  • #912
I don't see Palestine becoming a state when 80% of their resources are supplied by the UN, for years. Moo...the UN is basically funding this territory.

Gaza has received billions of dollars, over years, from the UN and others, to improve infrastructure, housing, education, build desalvation plants, and more.
Very true.

In fairness, however, Israel has received a total of 260 Billion dollars in US funding over the generations.

I dont know how economically viable even they would be with out it. Likewise, US cash might allow the Israelis to get around making some tough decisions regarding their policies towards Palestinians.
 
  • #913
A Hamas delegation led by a senior member of the Palestinian militant group’s leadership has flown to Russia, according to RIA Novosti.

The Russian state newswire said Moussa Abu Marzouk and other members of the Hamas delegation were in Moscow, citing a source on Thursday, and offering no further details.

Russia’s foreign ministry confirmed the Hamas delegation was in Moscow but did not say how long they had been there or who they were meeting.

This Moussa Abu Marzouk guy was a topic of discussion, just yesterday. He apparently was a legal US resident at one time. In the mid-90's, he was detained for about 22 months, but no charges were filed. He was then either "deported" or "left" in the late 90's after he was released. (Can't remember, which of the two, but the US did not want him here)
 
  • #914
This Moussa Abu Marzouk guy was a topic of discussion, just yesterday. He apparently was a legal US resident at one time. In the mid-90's, he was detained for about 22 months, but no charges were filed. He was then either "deported" or "left" in the late 90's after he was released. (Can't remember, which of the two, but the US did not want him here)
He was released. IMO
 
  • #915
Not denying that…but how do you identify hundreds of people in 24 hours? Their personal identities? Seems impossible given the mass destruction they claim and chaos. They gonna dig them up and identify their personal identities later?
They were not identified: They were photographed. They had blood drawn. They were assigned a number.

I guess family members look at the photos and if it is someone missing, they retrieve the blood (DNA) sample that correlates with the photo. The family member provides DNA and they compare.
 
  • #916
They were not identified: They were photographed. They had blood drawn. They were assigned a number.

I guess family members look at the photos and if it is someone missing, they retrieve the blood (DNA) sample the correlates with the photo. The family member provides DNA and they compare.
I didn’t know they drew blood and took photos. Do you have a credible link for that?
 
  • #917
...

I have a feeling that giving Israel the cash to build a bigger, better and badder wall will not militarily resolve the problem either.
RSBM,

And you are correct. All the players in the region, save Israel, have clearly demonstrated, for generations, that they will neither be satified nor happy until Palestine is free from the river to the sea.

Their political mandates expressly state such.
 
  • #918

Hamas makes unverified propaganda claim that ‘almost 50’ hostages killed in airstrikes​


IMG_8573.jpeg


 
  • #919
I didn’t know they drew blood and took photos. Do you have a credible link for that?
=

Gaza families wear ID bracelets to avoid burial in mass graves​

MASS BURIALS​

Mass burials have been authorized by local Muslim clerics. Before burial, medics keep pictures and blood samples of the dead and give them numbers.



And also:

Gaza families wear ID bracelets to avoid burial in mass graves​



___

They just started the bracelet thing.
 
  • #920
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