Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #8

[PommyMommy]

Live updates: Israel says ground operations expanding in Gaza as war with Hamas rages (cnn.com)
43 min ago

Second US aircraft carrier enters Mediterranean Sea heading toward Israel, ship tracking data shows​

The USS Dwight D. Eisenhower aircraft carrier and strike group has passed through the Strait of Gibraltar, entering the Mediterranean Sea, ship tracking data from MarineTraffic.com shows.

The strike group — the aircraft carrier, a guided-missile cruiser and two guided-missile destroyers — were deployed from Norfolk, Virginia, on October 13.

It's now the second carrier strike group in the Mediterranean. The USS Gerald R. Ford strike group is currently in the eastern Mediterranean, off the coast of Israel.

 

[Vern]

Regarding the UN humanitarian truce vote a few days ago:

Left: How the UN General Assembly voted for a humanitarian truce in Gaza.

This is the final vote being spun to claim abstaining countries - like the Baltics and Ukraine, for example - didn’t support a humanitarian truce.

Right: How the UN General Assembly voted on the exact same resolution - yet with the added statement that the UN General Assembly “unequivocally rejects and condemns the terrorist attacks by Hamas that took place in Israel starting on the 7th of October 2023 and the taking of hostages, demands the safety, well-being and humane treatment of the hostages in compliance with international law, and calls for their immediate and unconditional release".

That amendment got a majority of global votes, but didn’t pass to a final vote because it needed a two thirds majority.

It was blocked by a minority of countries that wanted to remove condemnation of hamas and specifically didn’t like the term “hostages” (rather than “captives”) because it recognises them as a criminal group.

As a result of this geopolitical gameplaying at the expense of Palestinians, the final vote was polarising in the way it could legitimise a terrorist organisation holding hostages.

This is why countries chose to abstain on the final vote.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718295319593509339

Yes, Canada proposed that amendment that mentioned Hamas because, until then, the calling for the truce had not an iota about Hamas or condemning their 10/7 terrorist acts.

That is exactly why Canada abstained on the vote. Democratic nations abstained or Voted "No". Overwhelmingly, all the world's dictatorships voted "yes".

Here's Where Every Country Stands on a Humanitarian Truce for Israel and Gaza

Results from a vote at the United Nations General Assembly

www.globaldispatches.org

 

[PommyMommy]

An urgent message for the residents of Gaza:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718240244129059167

How are they meant to see this when the communications are down? It's also in English. This is not done for the Palestinian people.

Here's a follow-up tweet to the video:

If you're only tuning in now....hi.

This is a good opportunity to mention that we've said this countless times for over two weeks, including:

- Dropping paper pamphlets across Gaza
- Arabic social media
- International media
- Phone calls to residents of Gaza
- And more.

You can see two examples from today [*]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718275509224714382

* For those who can't view twitter, the second example is the video in Arabic.

 

[PommyMommy]

The Hamas leadership has built a financial empire outside the Gaza Strip worth about $700 million. Not a cent goes into Gaza. While its own people suffer, the leadership lives in luxury abroad. I was able to see exclusive documents that prove Hamas' secret portfolio. The article is in German, I am working on an English version.
Terrorist Financing: Hamas' Secret Financial Empire - WELT

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718210451580883357

Reminder: the IDF warned residents of northern Gaza *two weeks ago* to evacuate temporarily for their safety.

The original deadline was 24 hours.

Fact-checkers: has any state ever given so much notice for civilians to evacuate in the history of international warfare?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718253323160109480

 

[Chelly]

Israel says its ground forces continue to fight inside Gaza, after an intense wave of overnight strikes and ground raids killed Hamas leaders.​

Last Updated:
Oct. 28, 2023 at 1:31 PM EDT
Israel said it has killed one of the planners of the Oct. 7 attacks after it expanded its ground operations in Gaza. Hospitals warned of dangers as the enclave runs out of fuel.
Israeli operations: Israeli ground troops that entered Gaza late Friday are still operating there amid heavy airstrikes across the Palestinian territory. Israel urged Palestinians to leave the northern Gaza Strip in the midst of signs it was nearing an expected ground invasion. Gaza's internet service was cut off, the territory's network operator said.

Israel-Hamas War

Live coverage of the unfolding war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. Follow along for news, updates and analysis as Israeli forces embark on a ground offensive.

www.wsj.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Israeli defense minister says the Gaza war has entered a new stage with an expanded ground operation
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel on Saturday expanded its ground operation in Gaza, sending in tanks and infantry backed by massive strikes from the air and sea. Israel’s defense minister said that “the ground shook in Gaza” and that the war against the territory’s Hamas rulers had entered a new stage.

The bombardment, described by Gaza residents as the most intense of the war, also knocked out most communications in Gaza. This largely cut off the besieged enclave’s 2.3 million people from the world, while enabling the Israeli military to control the narrative in the new stage of fighting.

The military released grainy images Saturday showing tank columns moving slowly in open areas of Gaza, many apparently near the border, and said warplanes bombed dozens of Hamas tunnels and underground bunkers. The underground sites are a key target in Israel’s campaign to crush the territory’s ruling group after its bloody incursion into Israel three weeks ago.

“We moved to the next stage in the war,” Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said in remarks broadcast Saturday. “Last evening, the ground shook in Gaza. We attacked above ground and underground. ... The instructions to the forces are clear. The campaign will continue until further notice.”

Israeli defense minister says the Gaza war has entered a new stage with an expanded ground operation

Israel has expanded its ground operation in Gaza, sending in tanks and infantry backed by massive strikes from the air and sea.

apnews.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Israel says its ground forces continue to fight inside Gaza, after an intense wave of overnight strikes and ground raids killed Hamas leaders.​

Last Updated:
Oct. 28, 2023 at 1:31 PM EDT
Israel said it has killed one of the planners of the Oct. 7 attacks after it expanded its ground operations in Gaza. Hospitals warned of dangers as the enclave runs out of fuel.
Israeli operations: Israeli ground troops that entered Gaza late Friday are still operating there amid heavy airstrikes across the Palestinian territory. Israel urged Palestinians to leave the northern Gaza Strip in the midst of signs it was nearing an expected ground invasion. Gaza's internet service was cut off, the territory's network operator said.

Israel-Hamas War

Live coverage of the unfolding war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. Follow along for news, updates and analysis as Israeli forces embark on a ground offensive.

www.wsj.com

I hope he was home!

Media has stated there is no way to verify.

 

[PommyMommy]

Additional Protocol (I) to the Geneva Conventions, 1977, Art. 12(4):

“Under no circumstances shall medical units be used in an attempt to shield military objectives from attack.”

We take international law very seriously. Hamas war criminals hiding under Shifa Hospital do not.

Article 13(1): “The protection to which civilian medical units are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian function, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after a warning has been given setting, whenever appropriate, a reasonable time-limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718258709460046064

 

[MyBelle]

I don't feel like everything Israel does is good. I question their bold decisions to build all the new settlements which seem to go against previous agreements not to do so. I am uncomfortable hearing about the hundreds of 'missing' workers from Gaza who had permits to be in Israel. I do not always side with Israel.

But in this specific case, of October 7th, I am outraged, appalled and very angry with Hamas leaders. I am not going to accept those excuses about Israel being controlling in Gaza or Gaza needing more aid, etc as a justification for that brutal violence, that outright massacre by Hamas.

What would the US do if Mexico sent in 1000 invaders by air, land and sea and brutally killed families in San Diego and Nogales and El Paso? If they set fire to our homes and killed those who climbed out the windows? If they killed babies in their cribs and toddlers and their mothers were stabbed to death in front of kidnapped siblings?

What if they surrounded our young people at a peaceful music festival , shooting hundreds of them as if they were hunting wild animals?

What if they dragged hundreds of the American families, including women, children and grandparents, back across the border and hid them in underground Mexican tunnels?

What would the US response be? What would your response be? Would you be most concerned about injuring any foreign civilians when trying to save the hostages and in trying to capture the terrorists?

Mexico is a U.S. ally. Its government isn't going to send militant invaders across our border. Canada is also a valued U.S. ally. All three of our countries have governments who work very hard to maintain peace with one another and I do believe it will stay that way.

Because of the war between the Hamas and Israel governments, the U.S. government has increased border vigilance so that terrorists do not gain entry to inflict terror on Americans. Our local FBI, police and sheriff depts. recently announced they have stepped up surveillance/protection of places of worship and schools.

afaik, the governments of Israel and Hamas do not share a history of cooperation or willingness to co-exist and it is their civilians who are experiencing incredible human tragedy.

JMO

Are terrorists trying to enter the U.S. through the southern border? Here are the facts.

Concerns about whether known or suspected terrorists are exploiting the migration crisis along the U.S.-Mexico border have intensified following the brutal terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas.

www.cbsnews.com

There has been a marked increase in Border Patrol apprehensions of individuals with matches on the U.S. terror watchlist over the past two years. But they represent a tiny fraction of all migrants processed along the southern border. Such incidents are more common along the U.S.-Canada border, and not all those on the watchlist are suspected terrorists.

 

[PommyMommy]

'That is an outrageous accusation.'

Israeli government spokesperson @EylonALevy vehemently denies to @SangitaMyska
that Palestinians are victims of 'ethnic cleansing'.

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy

Israel was the victim of an unprovoked act of aggression. We have a right to defend ourselves, including dismantling the terror regime that perpetrated October 7. That is the relevant international law. @LBC

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718285379722228136

 

[MyBelle]

Finally a post I can agree with 100%.
The entire disaster is an untenable situation.
The fundamental change seems utterly impossible since neither side will never, ever give an inch.
Their respective religions and idealogies forbid them both from ever doing that.

I hate what Hamas has done and continues to do.
I equally hate that Israel's (completely justified) retaliation is killing innocent civilians.
The "collateral damage" is horribly unavoidable in war.

It's just a nightmare and my heart hurts for the innocent victims that have no part in this, except the misfortune of being born where they were born.

jmo

BBM. The killing of civilians is never justified.

JMO

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-04.htm#:~:text=The%20Geneva%20Conventions%20specifically%20prohibit,enemy%20foreigners%20on%20friendly%20territory.

The Geneva Conventions specifically prohibit reprisals against civilians, private property of civilians in occupied territory, or enemy foreigners on friendly territory.135 Additional Protocol I is similarly unambiguous on reprisals: "Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited."136 Although the relevant provision of Protocol I has not yet reached the status of customary law, it expresses the prevailing trend in IHL to prohibit reprisal attacks against civilians-and thereby pre-empt the vicious spirals of reprisal and counter-reprisal that frequently follow.137

 

[Friday Fan]

Updates from Haaretz.
Their updates provide diverse sources. Some selected headlines/updates.

Netanyahu says battle in Gaza will be 'difficult and long'

***

www.haaretz.com

Haaretz
8:00 PM

Rocket sirens sound in central Israel as leaders hold press conference in Tel Aviv​

Haaretz
8:59 PM

Defense Minister Gallant affirms 'full trust' in IDF chief, soldiers​

Haaretz
8:53 PM

Netanyahu: Gov't approved widening Gaza gound invasion 'unanimously'​

Haaretz
8:12 PM

After meeting Netanyahu, hostages' families say 'We made it clear to him that there needs to be an all-for-all deal which will receive broad national support'​

​

Judy Maltz
8:30 PM

'Run for their lives:' New campaign to return hostages in Gaza launched, to take place in 12 cities around the world​

NEW YORK — A new campaign to return the 229 hostages being held in Gaza, called “Run for their Lives,” was launched on Saturday. The running initiatives will take place in 12 cities around the world every Saturday until the hostages are returned. In the photograph are more than 150 Israelis and Americans runners gearing up for their 1.5-mile run in New York’s Central Park.


The runners ran with Israeli flags, as well as flags representing some of the other nationalities of the hostages. They wore t-shirts provided by The Hostages and Missing Families forum.

​

​

Reuters
7:54 PM

UAE asks UN Security Council to meet on Gaza​

The United Arab Emirates asked the United Nations Security Council on Saturday to meet "as soon as possible" following Israel's expanded ground operations in Gaza and the disconnection of telecommunications networks, diplomats said.
The 15-member council could meet as early as Sunday, diplomats said, and the UAE has asked for U.N. aid chief Martin Griffiths and Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the U.N. agency providing aid to Palestinians (UNRWA), to brief.
Yaniv Kubovich
7:52 PM

IDF forces in northern Gaza Strip target several rocket-launching squads attempting to fire anti-tank missiles​

The IDF spokesperson reported that during recent operations involving armor, engineering, and infantry units in the northern Gaza Strip, several terrorist cells were targeted while attempting to launch anti-tank guided missiles. Additionally, a house with concealed traps was discovered and targeted from the air. In another attack, combat helicopters struck a building used by Hamas.
Adi Hashmonai, Ran Shimoni
7:26 PM

Demonstrations for hostage release, Netanyahu removal, take place across Israel
​

Demonstrations in support of the hostage's families are taking place on Saturday across various locations in the country. In some of the protests, the demonstrators are also calling for the removal of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.


In front of the Defense Ministry's complex in Tel Aviv, where a regular protest vigil by the abducted individuals' families takes place, dozens of people are currently participating. According to estimates, the size of the demonstration may change based on the results of Netanyahu's meeting with the families' representatives taking place at this time. This marks the third consecutive week of Saturday evening protests in the same location.


In Haifa, hundreds of demonstrators are participating, and demonstrations in support of the hostage's families are also occurring on Saturday evening in Haifa, Atlit, Caesarea, Be'er Sheva, and Eilat.

(My own personal note: Do protesters support Hamas prisoner deal of 6,000 or a one-for-one prisoner deal (swap) with imprisoned women and children????)

 

[PommyMommy]

30m ago18.48 BST
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently speaking at a press conference in Tel Aviv.

“This is the second stage of the war… Our calls are very clear – to destroy the military and government ability of Hamas and return the victims home,” he said.

29m ago18.50 BST
Netanyahu added that Israel is “ready to make sure that the murderers are going to pay the price for the massacre” following the October 7 Hamas attacks.

He added that Israel is “going to abolish this evil in order to further all humanity.”

27m ago04.51 AEDT
“We call the civil population, please go to the safe area on the streets,” said Netanyahu, warning Palestinians in Gaza to evacuate the northern region of the strip as Israel expands its ground presence.

He went on to address Israel’s allies, saying, “If Israel is not going to win today, they are going to be next in the axis of evil… That’s the beginning of the war,” he added.

26m ago13.54 EDT
“The war inside Gaza is going to be long,” Netanyahu added.

“This is our second independence war. We’re going to save our country. We’re going to fight in the air, ground and we are going to fight and win,” he said.

“This is the mission of my life…in your name and the name of everybody,” he added.

Israel-Hamas war live: Israeli PM Netanyahu speaks in Tel Aviv, signals ‘second stage of war’ against Hamas, pledges to ‘abolish this evil’

‘The war inside Gaza is going to be long,’ Netanyahu says, calling the ground invasion a ‘holy mission’.

www.theguardian.com

 

[PommyMommy]

24m ago13.57 EDT
Israel’s defense minister Yoav Gallant is now speaking at the press conference.

“I have faith in the … fighters and commanders, the forces, the Mossad and its people and all the defense systems. Together, we’re going to achieve … victory,” he said.

“At this time, we are readying all the fronts – the north, center and south.”

Israel has in recent weeks warned Palestinians in northern Gaza to evacuate south as it expands its military operations across the strip.

23m ago13.58 EDT
“We are making … effort in order to return the abductees to us, to our country. It’s a very complicated effort,” said Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant.

It’s dealing with reality that we didn’t know [about] in the past. We are ready to do anything … This is not a secondary mission. This is a national priority.

22m ago14.00 EDT
“As long as the military pressure and fire is going to be increased, as we hit the enemy harder, there’s a better chance … that the enemy will agree to solutions to return the loved ones,” Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant, said.

It’s not going to be a short war. It’s going to be a long war. We should have patience.

Israel-Hamas war live: Israeli PM Netanyahu speaks in Tel Aviv, signals ‘second stage of war’ against Hamas, pledges to ‘abolish this evil’

‘The war inside Gaza is going to be long,’ Netanyahu says, calling the ground invasion a ‘holy mission’.

www.theguardian.com

 

[katydid23]

Good post. Neither side in this war has spotless hands--and nothing happens in a vacuum.

We're seeing the very human failing of "justifying" the unjustifiable. Slaughtering innocents is unjustifiable, no matter who does it.

What Hamas did earlier this month shocked and disgusted the world, and Israel is lashing out in grief, anger, and fear of it happening again. According to the rules of war, Israel is justified in trying to eradicate Hamas. I get that. Hamas is pretty nasty.

The deeper question, however, is how Hamas got a foothold in the first place and whether another group will rise even if Israel is successful in eradicating all of them.

For 3/4 of a century now, that region has been in near-constant conflict. Israel sits in a sea of unfriendly Arab countries, and Gazans are little more than caged animals--and Israel holds the key to the cage. It's an untenable situation.

Each time there's a conflict or an intifada, people worldwide take sides as if #1--it's their business, and #2--they are somehow on moral high ground.

This latest war will very likely play out as so many other skirmishes have in the past--Israel will exact a high price in return for the atrocities committed by Hamas, and in doing so, they will create more of the same atmosphere and hatred that allowed Hamas to rise.

If something fundamental doesn't change--either the Gazans or the Israelis being relocated to another part of the world--we'll continue to see this story be replayed. Over and over.

I think we also have to see this in context. How and Why did the Jews come to land in the sea of unfriendly Arab countries?

It was preceded by the Holocaust. That is what precipitated this situation. So I give the Israelis some grace and latitude. They were given this land because of the unforgivable horrors they were put through.

I do not lay the blame for the hatred of the Gazan's towards them at Israel's feet. Hamas is to blame for that.

NONE of the surrounding Arab countries want to absorb or accept the Palestinians into their boundaries because of that level of hate. It is obsessive and violent.

How is Israel supposed to deal with that kind of intense hatred, taught to the children from babyhood?

 

[PommyMommy]

20m ago14.02 EDT
Benny Gantz, Israel’s former defense minister is now speaking at the press conference.

“The ground maneuver, alongside the other stages, could progress the return of the abductees home,” he said.

“I personally met abductees’ families and they can approach me anytime, I promise,” he added.

18m ago14.04 EDT
Speaking of Hamas, Benny Gantz, Israel’s former defense minister said: “They are war criminals that are sacrificing the citizens, residents of Gaza. Hamas brought them disaster.”

Even though they pretend they represent them, the picture is clear – it’s pure evil against pure justice and justice should prevail.

17m ago14.05 EDT
“The operational stages are going to take a long time,” said Benny Gantz, Israel’s former defense minister.

“Our unity is our strength, during the war and after. The people of Israel are ready … Nobody can win against us … With the help of God, we are going to fight, we are going to win,.”

Israel-Hamas war live: Israeli PM Netanyahu speaks in Tel Aviv, signals ‘second stage of war’ against Hamas, pledges to ‘abolish this evil’

‘The war inside Gaza is going to be long,’ Netanyahu says, calling the ground invasion a ‘holy mission’.

www.theguardian.com

 

[PommyMommy]

16m ago14.07 EDT
“There was a terrible failure. It’s going to be investigated. We’re going to turn each stone,” the Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in response to a question about whether he bears responsibility surrounding the 7 October attacks by Hamas.

“The ground operation that we expanded … is going to help us in this holy mission,” he added.

13m ago14.12 EDT
“We’re not going to change the goal of destroying Hamas,” Netanyahu said in response to a question about the “tension between destroying Hamas and bringing back the abductees.”

“There’s no tension,” he added. “We have two goals. One is to destroy the operational and military abilities of Hamas and the second one is to bring back the abductees," he said.

9m ago14.16 EDT
"We have to win against Hamas because it’s our existence, but it’s affecting all of the western civilization,” said Netanyahu.

He added that “Iran is the axis of evil” and claimed that Iran was involved in the Hamas’s attacks on October 7.

Israel-Hamas war live: Israeli PM Netanyahu speaks in Tel Aviv, signals ‘second stage of war’ against Hamas, pledges to ‘abolish this evil’

‘The war inside Gaza is going to be long,’ Netanyahu says, calling the ground invasion a ‘holy mission’.

www.theguardian.com

 

[justtrish]

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

The world’s most popular flight tracker. Track planes in real-time on our flight tracker map and get up-to-date flight status & airport information.

www.flightradar24.com

I notice this plane circling over southern Gaza today. I can't see any info about it, but it's stayed about 25,000 feet and circling the same area, plus another area off the coast. Anyone have thoughts on what this could be? Is it a drone or ??

 

[katydid23]

I appreciate your reply and agree with some of your points. I still don’t believe that carpet bombing innocent civilians is the answer.

Maybe not. But what would the answer be? How do they react to something as devastating as the October 7th Massacre?

Current death tolls:
“1,400
Number of Israelis killed

7,326
Number of Palestinians killed

A lot of those killed were Hamas terrorists.

5,431
Number of Israeli’s injured

18,967
Number of Palestinians injured

250,000
Number of Israelis displaced

1.4 million
Number of Palestinians displaced in Gaza”

Maybe it is a good thing to displace the Palestinians for now. Hamas should not be allowed to carry out these kinds of attacks without their own people feeling the heat as well.

Israel cannot just let the terrorists go back to their hiding places under the schools and hospitals and allow them to continue planning their next invasion. JMO

No one cares about the Jews in Israel. They know that they have very little support. The Holocaust taught them that in spades. So they have to stand up for themselves and retaliate because no one else will. JMO

Many of the Palestinians are wildly supportive of Hamas and their violent assaults on Israel. We saw them dance and sing in celebration when the hostages were being paraded about. They can't have it both ways.

These numbers show the staggering toll of the Israel-Hamas war

The latest Israel-Hamas war has become the deadliest and most destructive in the long history of the bitter enemies.

apnews.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Mexico is a U.S. ally. Its government isn't going to send militant invaders across our border. Canada is also a valued U.S. ally. All three of our countries have governments who work very hard to maintain peace with one another and I do believe it will stay that way.

Because of the war between the Hamas and Israel governments, the U.S. government has increased border vigilance so that terrorists do not gain entry to inflict terror on Americans. Our local FBI, police and sheriff depts. recently announced they have stepped up surveillance/protection of places of worship and schools.

afaik, the governments of Israel and Hamas do not share a history of cooperation or willingness to co-exist and it is their civilians who are experiencing incredible human tragedy.

JMO

Are terrorists trying to enter the U.S. through the southern border? Here are the facts.

Concerns about whether known or suspected terrorists are exploiting the migration crisis along the U.S.-Mexico border have intensified following the brutal terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas.

www.cbsnews.com

There has been a marked increase in Border Patrol apprehensions of individuals with matches on the U.S. terror watchlist over the past two years. But they represent a tiny fraction of all migrants processed along the southern border. Such incidents are more common along the U.S.-Canada border, and not all those on the watchlist are suspected terrorists.

I'm not worried, but it is possible that someone could enter Mexico and then the United States illegally. It happens, but:

First, they would need to leave Palestinian area
Get on a plane or boat (commercial transportation would be very difficult because they require passports etc)
A small plane on private property is an option, but it would need to land somewhere and it would probably land in someone's backyard strip in the US. (Yes, they exist. We have one right here in a neighborhood. It's a strip with no radar, no nothing etc.) It can be done. That's how they ship cocaine. However, there does need to be refuel options. The Colombia to rural Florida route included a refuel stop in Panama.

It is possible that Hamas leaders could get here on a private plane. But they are not in Gaza or the West Bank.

• It's entirely possible that any bad actor in any part of the world could get here on a private plane at any given time.

Now, let's look at commercial flights/boats...Passport..Maybe can be faked. I don't know.....With a fake passport, where do they land? US? Another country in the Americas? If they can get into any of the land countries of the Americas, they could probably enter Mexico and the US illegally.


Getting across the Atlantic is the hurdle.