It is possible....isn't it?

[Calliope]

that link wont work for me, it just takes me to a site index. Do you have another link, I really want to read that article! TIA

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/dede_spichers_former_boyfriend.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

Interesting. I wonder if all of us here did the same thing, what the results would be. I did ask 2 of my neighbors about this... One had no clue about it at all (he works like 90+ hrs a week and is always busy doing something on his property-yet interestingly he has a huge TV satellite in his yard!), the other also didn't know about Kyron although she watches TV all the time! Apparently she only watches things like The Bachelorette and shows like that. I was shocked that she didn't know about it considering her TV is always on.

I guess it is possible for ordinary Americans to not know about Kyron!

I had a doctor's appointment today, so I ran the experiment.

Out of 17 people that I asked "do you know who Kyron Horman is?" only one said yes. Turns out her mother lives in Portland.

When I followed up with the prompt "he's a missing child--do you remember the story?" only one more person could remember anything about it.

This is in a midwestern state. I have no idea how much TV, etc, my respondents watch.

I do have one mental reservation: I was asking the question out of context, as it were. I think if I had "warmed up" my respondents by talking about recent news stories, missing children cases, etc, that more of them might have remembered Kyron's name.

I think it's possible that so long as Kyron did nothing to alert others, he could be walking around in public and very few people would notice.

The problem being, of course, how does one keep a 7 year old quiet?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Unless one assumes LE is a bumbling bunch of cops and the FBI too, for that matter.

SBM

Sadly, on occasion, the FBI does act like bumbling idiots. Steven Hatfill, Richard Jewell, Wen Ho Lee, Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, are all examples of the FBI getting things so wrong that they won multi-million dollar settlements in compensation or further innocent lives were lost (the FBI's assistance to Canada in the Bernardo/Homolka case is downright embarrassing to read) due to FBI incompetence.

Investigative tunnel vision is a very real danger and very difficult to spot when it is happening.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Because this case is nothing like Elizabeth Smart, Shawn Hornbeck, Jaycee Dugard or the others. There were witnesses to most of those abductions and evidence of the same in cases where there wasn't a witness!

SBM

Actually, the only evidence in the Jaycee Dugard case was her stepfather's story of seeing her forced into a vehicle, then hopping on a bicycle to follow until he lost sight of it. That story was so unlikely that it made the stepfather the number one suspect.

I remember reading that story in the newspaper (actual paper newspaper!) and mentally rolling my eyes, thinking "yeah right." I lost track of the story but I would not have been surprised at all to hear that he'd been convicted in her disappearance.

So when she was discovered, I for one was shocked. The stepfather had never been arrested? AND HE TOLD THE TRUTH???!!!

The stepfather's story in that case led nowhere except to make him the prime suspect. That story was about as likely as "I waved good bye to Kyron as he walked towards his classroom."

 

[newone]

SBM

Sadly, on occasion, the FBI does act like bumbling idiots. Steven Hatfill, Richard Jewell, Wen Ho Lee, Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, are all examples of the FBI getting things so wrong that they won multi-million dollar settlements in compensation or further innocent lives were lost (the FBI's assistance to Canada in the Bernardo/Homolka case is downright embarrassing to read) due to FBI incompetence.

Investigative tunnel vision is a very real danger and very difficult to spot when it is happening.

I am waiting for Karla to use a crosswalk while I am driving--oops

 

[Calliope]

SBM

Sadly, on occasion, the FBI does act like bumbling idiots. Steven Hatfill, Richard Jewell, Wen Ho Lee, Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, are all examples of the FBI getting things so wrong that they won multi-million dollar settlements in compensation or further innocent lives were lost (the FBI's assistance to Canada in the Bernardo/Homolka case is downright embarrassing to read) due to FBI incompetence.

Investigative tunnel vision is a very real danger and very difficult to spot when it is happening.

Let's not forget Brandon Mayfield.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/29/mayfield.suit/index.html

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield[/ame]


On May 6, 2004, the FBI arrested Mayfield as a material witness in connection with the Madrid attacks, and held him for over two weeks. Mayfield was never charged, and an FBI internal review later acknowledged serious errors in their investigation. Ensuing lawsuits have resulted in a formal apology from the U.S. government and a $2 million settlement.

---

A bag containing detonating devices, found by Spanish authorities following the Madrid commuter train bombings, had fingerprints that were initially identified by the FBI as belonging to Mayfield ("100% verified"). According to the court documents in judge Ann Aiken's decision, this information was largely "fabricated and concocted by the FBI and DOJ". When the FBI finally sent Mayfield's fingerprints to the Spanish authorities, they contested the matching of the fingerprints from Brandon Mayfield to the ones associated with the Madrid bombing. Further, the Spanish authorities informed the FBI they had other suspects who were Moroccan immigrants in the case who were not linked to anyone in the USA. The FBI completely disregarded all of the information from the Spanish authorities, and proceeded to spy on Mayfield and his family further.

---

The FBI arrested Mayfield at his offices in West Slope, an unincorporated suburb of Portland. The arrest was similar to the then-recent Mike Hawash case, under a material witness warrant rather than under charge; he was held with no access to family and limited access, if any, to legal counsel. The FBI initially refused to inform either Mayfield or his family why he was being arrested or where he was being held.

Later, the FBI leaked the nature of the charges to the local media and the family discovered what the charges were by watching the local news. He was at first held at a Multnomah County jail under a false name; he was later transferred to an unidentified location.

-----


On November 29, 2006, the U.S. government settled part of the lawsuit with Mayfield for a reported $2 million. The government issued a formal apology to Mayfield as part of the settlement. The settlement allowed Mayfield to pursue a legal challenge against the Patriot Act. The FBI was also cleared of wrongdoing in an earlier internal investigation.

On September 26, 2007, two provisions of the U.S. Patriot Act were declared unconstitutional. Finding in Mayfield's favor, Judge Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, "now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment," which violates the Constitution of the United States. The Federal government has appealed that ruling, and Mayfield's attorney, Elden Rosenthal, argued in front of the Ninth Circuit court on February 5, 2009. The ruling was overturned.

_____

Yay PATRIOT act!

Scary, isn't it.

 

[newone]

If the Dugard case wasn't fresh in my mind I might have jumped on the ''majority'' bash TH bandwagon -- but I do recall the havoc it caused poor stepdad in the case of Dugard -- it busted his marriage too didn't it? So this is a cookie cutter approach to the Kyron case IMHO

 

[MsFacetious]

Big difference in my opinion between Jaycee and Kyron's cases. Though I see the point about the suspicion...which is why I won't say I think Terri did it. I don't know what happened and I am totally aware that unbelievable things happen.

I do think she is extremely cold. I struggle to understand her actions as I know how differently I would be acting in her situation and I'm pretty cold myself.

Jaycee and Kyron's case differences in my opinion:

Jaycee's stepfather gave a description of the vehicle and both occupants.

Garrido was a convicted rapist who owned that vehicle at the time. This is something that was verifiable, connecting the vehicle to a viable suspect.

Terri says: I waved goodbye to Kyron in the school. Yeah I'll take a lie detector...oh wait, maybe I won't. Talk to the media??? I don't think so....I'm a little busy. *hires attorney and vanishes off the face of the earth*

That is far different than Carl saying: Jaycee was grabbed by a woman who looked like this, with a man driving who looked like this, yes let's draw a sketch... they put her into an 85' Ford Monarch, gray 4 door. Yes I will take lie detectors, yes I will talk to the media. What else can I do to help??
*remains front and center and involved regardless of suspicion or speculation*

If this abduction happened today, with the same witness account and the same perpetrator... the victim would be found within the week. The stepfather's story led nowhere because it wasn't taken seriously enough, so it wasn't taken as far as it could have been. :twocents:

I'm not sure what the differences mean for Kyron... that's just how I see them.

SBM

Actually, the only evidence in the Jaycee Dugard case was her stepfather's story of seeing her forced into a vehicle, then hopping on a bicycle to follow until he lost sight of it. That story was so unlikely that it made the stepfather the number one suspect.

I remember reading that story in the newspaper (actual paper newspaper!) and mentally rolling my eyes, thinking "yeah right." I lost track of the story but I would not have been surprised at all to hear that he'd been convicted in her disappearance.

So when she was discovered, I for one was shocked. The stepfather had never been arrested? AND HE TOLD THE TRUTH???!!!

The stepfather's story in that case led nowhere except to make him the prime suspect. That story was about as likely as "I waved good bye to Kyron as he walked towards his classroom."

 

[newone]

Ms Facetious

I agree with all the points you raised.

The one thing that Dugard/Hormon cases have in common is that the step parent was the last ''known'' person to have seen the victim.