It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[Ntegrity]

Actually, one of my best friends is Jewish and she has no problem with "my" Christmas. She gives me a Christmas present and I give her a Hannakuh present. Neither of us is trying to convert the other and we get along just fine.

This nation is (or maybe *was*) primarily of the Christian faith. We don't deny anyone the right to practice a different religion, or force them to practice ours against their will. Christmas is a big deal because the majority in this country do celebrate it, whether because of Jesus or because of Santa. I wish those who don't want to participate would just go their merry way and allow the rest of us to do so in peace! I wouldn't dream of going to a Muslim country and then complaining about their religious celebrations on the grounds that I wasn't a Muslim.

 

[Ntegrity]

Yes, and by heck why aren't you? :crazy:

And I'm offended by Arbor Day because those d*mn trees cause my allergies to act up.

And my friend is offended by Valentine's Day because she doesn't have a Valentine.

Might as well get rid of all the freakin holidays. That's what is going to happen sooner or later. God forbid...we don't want to "force" anything on anyone. To heck with the "you can't please everyone all the time"...... :banghead:

I'm so with you on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[narlacat]

Can't you just see Him overturning tables laden with Xmas crap?

Hehehe, what a funny mental picture Nova.

Though, in reality....Jesus is a bit beyond feeling nauseated or embarrased about how Christmas has turned out.

Hey I've even changed my ringtone on my mobile to a cheery Chrissy tune, how's that for getting into the true spirit of Christmas

 

[Ntegrity]

What causes this overreaction?

Last year people were mad that Walmart had "Happy Holiday" signs up instead of Merry Christmas. This year the Merry Christmas signs are back.

Exactly, and the complaining has started again.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Most Jews (even many highly assimilated Jews) are uncomfortable about Christmas. We don't object to Christians celebrating Christmas, but we don't particularly want to celebrate it ourselves, and there is enormous social pressure to celebrate Christmas, whether we want to or not. As one Jewish writer said, "just try telling a Christmas enthusiast that the creche in front of your post office makes you un-easy; suddenly, 'frosty' describes more than just the snowman." Many secular Christians have told me that Christmas is my holiday too, and some of them get very angry or even nasty when I tell them that I don't want to celebrate it, calling me "Grinch" or "Scrooge." I have no doubt that before this Christmas season is over, I will receive a few emails telling me that I should celebrate Christmas; I get them every year.
http://www.jewfaq.org/xmas.htm

Well, I do know that my bosses in Miami were among the biggest and most active Jews around. We had Christmas trees in the showrooms, Christmas parties and gift exchanges. The boss would smile and nod and say "Merry Christmas" and you would return with "Happy Hanukka, Mr. Braman". Nothing but good cheer and lots of respect and tolerance there.

 

[narlacat]

Actually, one of my best friends is Jewish and she has no problem with "my" Christmas. She gives me a Christmas present and I give her a Hannakuh present. Neither of us is trying to convert the other and we get along just fine.

This nation is (or maybe *was*) primarily of the Christian faith. We don't deny anyone the right to practice a different religion, or force them to practice ours against their will. Christmas is a big deal because the majority in this country do celebrate it, whether because of Jesus or because of Santa. I wish those who don't want to participate would just go their merry way and allow the rest of us to do so in peace! I wouldn't dream of going to a Muslim country and then complaining about their religious celebrations on the grounds that I wasn't a Muslim.

Santa wins out over Jesus every time.
I bet more kids know about Santa than they do Jesus.

 

[MREG2]

What causes this overreaction?

Last year people were mad that Walmart had "Happy Holiday" signs up instead of Merry Christmas. This year the Merry Christmas signs are back.

Didn't mean to overreact... Blame in on pregnancy hormones....

I'm just tired of hearing people say that certain faiths, etc need to quit forcing their religions (or whatever the topic may be at that time) on others. Who is forcing anything?? Maybe I need to polish up on what "to force" means... But no one I know intimidates, threatens, holds a gun to anyone, twists anyone's arm, yadda yadda to do anything be it praying or shopping at Christmas time.

What if roles were reversed and it was Hanukah that was celebrated the way Christmas is today? Does that give me (a Christian) the right to get all ticked because someone wished me Happy Hanukah instead of Christmas? No. Would I start going balisitc because someone was forcing their religion on me? No. I would accept that that is what society is about and go on celebrating the birth of my Lord and leave the rest out of it. But I guess people have to have something to complain about and why not how people greet you at Christmas. Next thing you know, if you don't greet someone because you're afraid of offending them, then you're labeling as a stuck up rude person with no social skills. Just can't win for losing.

BTW, it doesn't matter to me what WalMart has on their signs. I will celebrate Christmas no matter how some store greets me......

 

[tybee204]

IMO this is all silly. Several of my closest friends are Jewish. They are business owners and Christmas is promoted in their retail establishments just like WalMart or any other retail store. Business is business and The Christmas Holiday is what keeps everyones books in the black. Regardless of Race, Religion or Cultural Ethninticity.

 

[MREG2]

Well, I do know that my bosses in Miami were among the biggest and most active Jews around. We had Christmas trees in the showrooms, Christmas parties and gift exchanges. The boss would smile and nod and say "Merry Christmas" and you would return with "Happy Hanukka, Mr. Braman". Nothing but good cheer and lots of respect and tolerance there.

A few years ago I worked for a hospital with a strong Jewish background. They had a big and beautiful Manorah (sp?) up in the lobby. Did it offend me (a christian)? No. Did it offend the other patients and their families? No.

And that is the way it should be....respect for all and thier beliefs...

 

[Details]

Even though I detest Walmart, I applaud their decision to say "Merry Christmas". Their headquarters are in the deep south, the Bible belt and they have the right to make these kinds of decisions. If atheists/agnostics/other religions don't want Walmart employees saying Merry Christmas to them, then those people have the right to not shop there.

That's what I think - as an atheist/agnostic/whatever. And I'll still shop there just like normal - it doesn't bug me at all.

Also, if those same people want a holiday in December where they exchange gifts, why not start a new holiday and that they hold it on another date besides Dec. 25 (yeah, I know, it's not really Christ's birthday, but Christians have used that date forever) and call it "winter holiday" or whatever they want.

But here, I just need to give a correction - Christians have not used that date forever - pagans have. Druids, Roman holidays, all kinds of different bits - look it up.

I don't see why Christians should have to accomodate non-Christians on a holiday that is based/founded on Christianity. That way, we won't be seen as "forcing our beliefs" on our own holiday.

JMO

Pagans, no doubt, didn't see why they should have to accomodate Christians on a holiday that was based/founded in their own pagan religions.

I see no issue with Walmart - but I can also agree with wovc's point of view that a little understanding would be nice. Just accept that some will feel like outsiders with all the Merry Christmas stuff going around - doesn't mean it needs to change, and definitely doesn't change what you say and do (unless you choose to - or unless you work for the government) - but hey, what's wrong with accepting that it does make people who already know they are in the extreme minority, and not always a well tolerated minority, feel a bit more excluded?

Say Merry Christmas - but don't get in my face if I choose to use Happy Holidays (that's where I feel there is some forcing of beliefs - getting in my face if I say Happy Holidays).

If you are a store, have Christmas gifts, Christmas trees, whatever you want, whatever makes the most business sense or fits your personal beliefs.

But if we're talking about the government, remember we were founded to get away from state religions, and that a lot of atheists, agnostics, pagans, jews, muslims, buddists, hindus, and everything else have fought and died for this country, have worked to build this country, and don't exclude us.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Actually, one of my best friends is Jewish and she has no problem with "my" Christmas. She gives me a Christmas present and I give her a Hannakuh present. Neither of us is trying to convert the other and we get along just fine.

.

That's what I tried to explain in my earlier post. Sensitivity on all's part can go a long way.

My former OB/GYN was a Jewish man - he delivered my daughter c-section on Yom Kippur (sp?). Was I offended at what he was doing at work with his coworkers, who were also celebrating their Jewish holiday? No. In fact, that's when I learned about it, for goodness sake! Until that day, I didn't know what it meant to them. Now, every year I see Yom Kippur on the calendar and I think of that wonderful day and that wonderful doctor.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Didn't mean to overreact...

I'm just tired of hearing people say that certain faiths, etc need to quit forcing their religions (or whatever the topic may be at that time) on others. Who is forcing anything?? Maybe I need to polish up on what "to force" means... But no one I know intimidates, threatens, holds a gun to anyone, twists anyone's arm, yadda yadda to do anything be it praying or shopping at Christmas time.

What if roles were reversed and it was Hanukah that was celebrated the way Christmas is today? Does that give me (a Christian) the right to get all ticked because someone wished me Happy Hanukah instead of Christmas? No. Would I start going balisitc because someone was forcing their religion on me? No. I would accept that that is what society is about and go on celebrating the birth of my Lord and leave the rest out of it. But I guess people have to have something to complain about and why not how people greet you at Christmas. Next thing you know, if you don't greet someone because you're afraid of offending them, then you're labeling as a stuck up rude person with no social skills. Just can't win for losing.

BTW, it doesn't matter to me what WalMart has on their signs. I will celebrate Christmas no matter how some store greets me......

I am sorry but I don't believe I ever went ballistic on this topic. I am not complaining. I accept the way things are with Christmas being everywhere overwhelmingly at this time.

This culture war thing is Mr O' Reilly, John Gibson and a few other blowhards invention.

Someone asked me a question. I answered it. That's all.

 

[MREG2]

Actually, one of my best friends is Jewish and she has no problem with "my" Christmas. She gives me a Christmas present and I give her a Hannakuh present. Neither of us is trying to convert the other and we get along just fine.

This nation is (or maybe *was*) primarily of the Christian faith. We don't deny anyone the right to practice a different religion, or force them to practice ours against their will. Christmas is a big deal because the majority in this country do celebrate it, whether because of Jesus or because of Santa. I wish those who don't want to participate would just go their merry way and allow the rest of us to do so in peace! I wouldn't dream of going to a Muslim country and then complaining about their religious celebrations on the grounds that I wasn't a Muslim.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[MREG2]

Hehehe, what a funny mental picture Nova.

Though, in reality....Jesus is a bit beyond feeling nauseated or embarrased about how Christmas has turned out.

Hey I've even changed my ringtone on my mobile to a cheery Chrissy tune, how's that for getting into the true spirit of Christmas

Hey! That's not a bad idea... will have to do that to mine.

 

[Details]

Walmart went to Happy Holidays last year, of their own free will - they decided that it'd be a nice gesture to use a greeting that didn't exclude some of their customers. And Christians went nuts on them - I personally heard a sermon where the pastor was telling everyone not to go to the stores that didn't say Merry Christmas, everyone made a big deal about it. So, Walmart decided to go back. So, this isn't about forcing Christians to not say Merry Christmas - there was no force involved - it's about a business being threatened with boycotts because they decided not to say it - and caving in to the pressure.

Now, this is no problem, and economics are the way to go - but why is there all this talk like non-christians are doing the forcing here?

When it comes to government, and the schools all of our children attend - yeah, then there are issues, and I'll stand up for a secular government - but this is about a business.

 

[MREG2]

I am sorry but I don't believe I ever went ballistic on this topic. I am not complaining. I accept the way things are with Christmas being everywhere overwhelmingly at this time.

This culture war thing is Mr O' Reilly, John Gibson and a few other blowhards invention.

Someone asked me a question. I answered it. That's all.

Hold on... My comment wasn't meant toward you personally. And I apologize if you thought so.

Pregnancy hormones are hitting me hard today and some of the other posts got to me.

Sorry again.....

 

[windovervocalcords]

Here's why. For many years now, the business community and the church community have been waging a bit of a culture war as Christmas approaches. Right now, there are really two holiday seasons competing for everyone's time and energy: Santa Christmas and Jesus Christmas. It's the Santa Christmas I want to move to November.
​

The church community wants to keep Christ in Christmas. Most serious religious folk who are Christian want to focus on the mystery of God coming among us as a vulnerable child. And, no Emily, Santa Claus never did kneel at the manger, and the angels were not singing "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas."
​

The irony is that 1,500 years ago when the Christians decided to celebrate the birth of Christ on Dec. 25, they thought they were pulling off a cultural coup against the pagans who did their winter solstice thing around that time. The reasoning was that if we put a bigger and better holy day on around the same time, we'll be able to make those newly baptized Christians forget all about the festival of lights, which was celebrated at the time.​

http://forestparkreview.com/main.asp?SectionID=3&SubSectionID=3&ArticleID=1774&TM=82879.76​

 

[MREG2]

Walmart went to Happy Holidays last year, of their own free will - they decided that it'd be a nice gesture to use a greeting that didn't exclude some of their customers. And Christians went nuts on them - I personally heard a sermon where the pastor was telling everyone not to go to the stores that didn't say Merry Christmas, everyone made a big deal about it. So, Walmart decided to go back. So, this isn't about forcing Christians to not say Merry Christmas - there was no force involved - it's about a business being threatened with boycotts because they decided not to say it - and caving in to the pressure.

Now, this is no problem, and economics are the way to go - but why is there all this talk like non-christians are doing the forcing here?

When it comes to government, and the schools all of our children attend - yeah, then there are issues, and I'll stand up for a secular government - but this is about a business.

Then those Christians are out of line. Especially that pastor. Guess that is where everyone needs to get over their differences. But I can't believe anyone would boycott a store over it. Did it really happen? I'd be interested to know if WalMart lost business due to their changing to Happy Holidays.

I won't stand up for a secular government. Does it really matter if the 10 commandments are in a court of law? It's not like they are used during trials or anything. Does it matter if schools offer a minute or two to pray? Those who don't believe in prayer can use those minutes to go over test notes or oogled their latest crushes. But those who do pray can use those minutes to pray for that test or to pray that their latest crushes are oogling them. :crazy: When it is all said and done, does it really matter?

 

[windovervocalcords]

Then those Christians are out of line. Especially that pastor. Guess that is where everyone needs to get over their differences. But I can't believe anyone would boycott a store over it. Did it really happen? I'd be interested to know if WalMart lost business due to their changing to Happy Holidays.

I won't stand up for a secular government. Does it really matter if the 10 commandments are in a court of law? It's not like they are used during trials or anything. Does it matter if schools offer a minute or two to pray? Those who don't believe in prayer can use those minutes to go over test notes or oogled their latest crushes. But those who do pray can use those minutes to pray for that test or to pray that their latest crushes are oogling them. :crazy: When it is all said and done, does it really matter?

Yes, it matters to me.

 

[MREG2]

Yes, it matters to me.

Then I'm sorry... This isn't the thread for it but I am curious as to why?