Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[SteveL]

Apologies in advance, as I respectfully understand Nick "hates" any skater angles......

I've mentioned this in past threads. If you're even a recreational skater, the wear on your shoes varies drastically. The shoe on the leg you push off on will grind down from frequent contact with the pavement, to propel your skateboard. It's not uncommon for skaters to have the shoe that remains firmly planted on the board look almost new, while the shoe on the foot you use to propel be ground to shreds. Skating also grinds your shoes down to the point that I could completely see it altering the size of a shoe by half a size. Also, the leg you use to propel will often become much more muscular. it's referred to as "skater leg." When we'd walk in the snow, it's so noticeable that it becomes laughable. I still remember my friend Harvey use to leave footprints that almost seemed like they came from 2 different people. These footprints totally remind me of how some skaters left their footprints in the sand.

I've wondered for awhile if this is something TMPD observed in the suspects footprints. Hence the emphasis on initially focusing on skaters. As I always say, my stance is that the suspect is NOT a "skater" per se. But, I feel he has some skating experience/background.

 

[CliffDagger]

Hi everyone,

I've tried to search has this already been posted so my apologies if this has already been asked, I was just wondering has anyone ever spoken to any of the past pupils of Yokota High School from circa 2000?

It would be very interesting to hear about the school at that time, the exact details of how families travel to Yokota from the U.S., is Edwards USAF a common hub, that type of thing.

And of course, if they remembered the murders, did any of their classmates return home suddenly or have suspicious injuries, were the murders acknowledged or talked about in the base etc.

I know I'm late to the party. Thanks for your time. On a side note I've read through a lot of the previous threads and some of the detective work is outstanding. Well done everyone.

 

[Eliver]

These footprints are from the hallway that goes past the kitchen into the living room.
View attachment 555212

Interesting.
So definitely not Yasuko's.

What confuses me is that after that one "full" footprint there are like these "arcs" that definitely seem to be from the shoes, but I don't know, it's very difficult to tell, at least for me

 

[Eliver]

Those images jumped out at me too. They look more like footprints or sock-prints than shoes. It looks like someone with a high arch.

Could someone explain a bit about the toilet and sesame seeds? I couldn't quite understand what was going on there. However I am totally content to wait until one of the amazing posters here is able to look into it further with better translation.

And how horrifying that he was sitting on the toilet rifling through bags! I'm curious if it was more of a "oh I'm going to be there for awhile and maybe bored so I should take something to do" or "I'm in such a hurry that I'd better use this time to do something productive."

Previously it was always reported that the killer used the toilet and didn't flush his feces.
Through those feces it was inferred what he had eaten (sesame string beans if I recall correctly).

However the recent documentary showed that as a matter of fact the killer did flush the toilet and only some drop marks were left on it.

I can only guess that was still enough for the police to understand what he had eaten previous to the murders or very close to them.

As per what that tells us, it's nothing relevant to the murders themselves, but it seems to suggest that the killer had eaten what in Japan is considered a "Mama's boy" meal.

Take all the above with a pinch of salt though, I have been living in Japan for some time now and I admittedly never heard of this prior (but in this case it could just be me), and anyway food preference is very much a personal/subjective thing, it does not automatically mean that the killer was Japanese.

 

[Charlot123]

Very sorry to ask, but I could not watch the movie till the end. Maybe it was explained there.

Per prior diagrams, it has been my understanding that the bodies of Mikio and Yatsuko and Niina were found on the main floor? Rei was in his bedroom.

But assuming that Yasuko and Niina were violently attacked in their bed, perhaps they were killed there? How did they end a floor below then?

If it is explained in the movie, I shall make myself watch it till the end. It is difficult, tbh.

Anger or untreated mental illness? The skaters don't come to mind, but the animals in the park do.

RIP all the victims.

 

[annemc2]

Thanks @Eliver. I did notice that the toilet was actually flushed and had forgotten about the "homestyle" food that he had apparently consumed. Thinking there was something about sesame seeds will teach me to wait until a native-esque person weighs in rather than relying on automatic translation!

The thing that really rattled me the most I think are the marks above the bed (but no blood?). That is some frenzied attack. I have the same questions as @Charlot123 regarding the location(s) of Yasuko and Niina.

 

[Eliver]

Very sorry to ask, but I could not watch the movie till the end. Maybe it was explained there.

Per prior diagrams, it has been my understanding that the bodies of Mikio and Yatsuko and Niina were found on the main floor? Rei was in his bedroom.

But assuming that Yasuko and Niina were violently attacked in their bed, perhaps they were killed there? How did they end a floor below then?

If it is explained in the movie, I shall make myself watch it till the end. It is difficult, tbh.

Anger or untreated mental illness? The skaters don't come to mind, but the animals in the park do.

RIP all the victims.

Yes Charlot, the footage is very distressing to watch. I understand not being able to got through all of it.

As per your question about Yasuko and Niina: before the documentary it was commonly accepted that the killer, after noticing that the knife he brought with him had broke during the fight with Mikio, aborted the attack in the attic, went down to the kitchen and took a knife from there to finish the women.

Yasuko had probably thought the killer left or that at the very least she had a small window of time to try and save Niina (and herself and the others, we may never know), and went down the ladder, where they were then attacked a second time and killed.

The documentary however, show things in a different light: the knife did broke prior to the attic attack, but not as severely as was thought. Perhaps there might have even not been a fight with Mikio at all for what we now know, or the fight was not as violent and noisy as many of us thought it was (the documentary suggests Mikio did not go up the stairs and that the killer might have wounded himself during the attack on Yasuko and Niina).

At this point the killer went up the attic and then the knife broke again while he was attacking Yasuko and Niina, and so he went down the kitchen to get a new knife.

I'm saying all of this based on my memory of the documentary so I hope I didn't get any detail wrong, but I think that is the gist of it.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I did an experiment (I know kinda weird) because I thought the foot prints looked similar to mine (which I always thought looked weird). I have extremely high arches (should've been a ballerina they say!) which leave strange looking foot prints.

No idea if this is the case with the killer and we'd have to assume what Nic said that likely wearing socks so maybe not shoe prints. But here are photos of my wet foot print - no socks, bare feet. You'll notice I went over it twice to try to get a good imprint so it's not perfect as it's kinda "doubled" but enough to get the gist of how it looks long on the sides.

I thought interesting was Steve said about skater leg too. Skating was still a thing at the time so maybe not 'the skaters' at the park but could've had that as a past time if idle.

Take what will with my pics (I can't believe I'm doing this lol) *ETA: I have extremely wide feet too you'll notice. The killer's definitely looks slimmer at the top but could have a very very high arch. With high arches I could never wear flat shoes like Converse but still would from time to time.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Can anyone clarify the comment about the gloves in the doc? The bad translation said something about marriage being written in the gloves but I'm guessing that's just bad translation?

I was confused by those few minutes with the gloves. It's at the 2:55 mark.

 

[Eliver]

Can anyone clarify the comment about the gloves in the doc? The bad translation said something about marriage being written in the gloves but I'm guessing that's just bad translation?

I was confused by those few minutes with the gloves. It's at the 2:55 mark.

I can't access the documentary right now, but I'm pretty sure I know what's the problem.

The word is "blood traces", which in Japanese "kekkon" is pronounced exactly as the word "marriage" (but it's written differently).

So basically: there were blood traces in the gloves (or on them).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I can't access the documentary right now, but I'm pretty sure I know what's the problem.

The word is "blood traces", which in Japanese "kekkon" is pronounced exactly as the word "marriage" (but it's written differently).

So basically: there were blood traces in the gloves (or on them).

Thank you! Funny how thing get lost in translation

 

[Incoherent]

Can anyone clarify the comment about the gloves in the doc? The bad translation said something about marriage being written in the gloves but I'm guessing that's just bad translation?

I was confused by those few minutes with the gloves. It's at the 2:55 mark.

The word is 血痕 (kekkon) which means “bloodstains”. But “kekkon” also means marriage 結婚 and it’s translated it as “marriage” instead.
And here we have my gripe with auto-translation.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes Charlot, the footage is very distressing to watch. I understand not being able to got through all of it.

As per your question about Yasuko and Niina: before the documentary it was commonly accepted that the killer, after noticing that the knife he brought with him had brok1st qe during the fight with Mikio, aborted the attack in the attic, went down to the kitchen and took a knife from there to finish the women.

Yasuko had probably thought the killer left or that at the very least she had a small window of time to try and save Niina (and herself and the others, we may never know), and went down the ladder, where they were then attacked a second time and killed.

The documentary however, show things in a different light: the knife did broke prior to the attic attack, but not as severely as was thought. Perhaps there might have even not been a fight with Mikio at all for what we now know, or the fight was not as violent and noisy as many of us thought it was (the documentary suggests Mikio did not go up the stairs and that the killer might have wounded himself during the attack on Yasuko and Niina).

At this point the killer went up the attic and then the knife broke again while he was attacking Yasuko and Niina, and so he went down the kitchen to get a new knife.

I'm saying all of this based on my memory of the documentary so I hope I didn't get any detail wrong, but I think that is the gist of it.

Thank you!

I remember seeing before (twice, in different places) either sketches or schemes of the bodies and i think that Yasuko and Niina were definitely not in the loft and if I am not mistaken, all three were at the same level? At one point we even discussed if Yasuko could potentially see Rei's body from where she was. Meaning she was at the same level with him.

And then I always assumed that when her mom came in the morning, she discovered them all (and probably, fainted?)

Today, here is what I don't understand. If the attack on women started in the loft, and the perpetrator was aiming at the faces (and I remember Nic explaining to us once how savage that attack was), I don't understand how the women ended up at the foot of the stairs? The perpetrator didn't march them down once he started attacking them, or did he? They probably couldn't escape the bed once he was aiming at their faces? Nor did he push them down when they died, i assume? And if they were found in the loft, then the mother had to get up there in AM? To verify that they were dead?

Maybe it is all explained in the video. I can watch if they talk about it. But indeed, without the translation it is hard. (I just mentally shoved aside that "marriage all over the inside of gloves" once I saw it.)

 

[Eliver]

Thank you!

I remember seeing before (twice, in different places) either sketches or schemes of the bodies and i think that Yasuko and Niina were definitely not in the loft and if I am not mistaken, all three were at the same level? At one point we even discussed if Yasuko could potentially see Rei's body from where she was. Meaning she was at the same level with him.

And then I always assumed that when her mom came in the morning, she discovered them all (and probably, fainted?)

Today, here is what I don't understand. If the attack on women started in the loft, and the perpetrator was aiming at the faces (and I remember Nic explaining to us once how savage that attack was), I don't understand how the women ended up at the foot of the stairs? The perpetrator didn't march them down once he started attacking them, or did he? They probably couldn't escape the bed once he was aiming at their faces? Nor did he push them down when they died, i assume? And if they were found in the loft, then the mother had to get up there in AM? To verify that they were dead?

Maybe it is all explained in the video. I can watch if they talk about it. But indeed, without the translation it is hard. (I just mentally shoved aside that "marriage all over the inside of gloves" once I saw it.)

I really don't think it's that difficult to explain: Yasuko was probably still capable of taking Niina down the stairs since the attack was aborted midway because the knife broke.

The fact that in the loft they were attacked on their face is explained in the documentary since there are marks on the wall near the bedframe where their faces were.

Of all the things presented in the documentary this is by far the last I have issues with (meaning that the reconstruction is pretty clear).

 

[Sillybilly]

Interesting.
So definitely not Yasuko's.

What confuses me is that after that one "full" footprint there are like these "arcs" that definitely seem to be from the shoes, but I don't know, it's very difficult to tell, at least for me

Looks to me as though the killer realized (too late) they were leaving full footprints and started walking on the lateral side of their foot so as not to leave a full print.

 

[Incoherent]

Here is the sneaker in question for reference since it’s under discussion:

So we can highly likely say the previously circled print that was shown in the hallway to the kitchen was not from the shoe and is a sock print instead.

In the recreation it shows the killer taking medical supplies from the cabinet in the living room so perhaps this sock print could have been Yasuko attempting to go and retrieve the supplies after descending the loft ladder, but realising the killer was in the kitchen and then turns back around again. The killer then follows and kills Yasuko and Niina on the landing. It looks a lot smaller than the shoe size the killer had and otherwise would mean the killer’s shoes were off at some point and had a smaller foot.

Thoughts?

 

[Eliver]

Here is the sneaker in question for reference since it’s under discussion:
View attachment 555581

So we can highly likely say the previously circled print that was shown in the hallway to the kitchen was not from the shoe and is a sock print instead.

In the recreation it shows the killer taking medical supplies from the cabinet in the living room so perhaps this sock print could have been Yasuko attempting to go and retrieve the supplies after descending the loft ladder, but realising the killer was in the kitchen and then turns back around again. The killer then follows and kills Yasuko and Niina on the landing. It looks a lot smaller than the shoe size the killer had and otherwise would mean the killer’s shoes were off at some point and had a smaller foot.

Thoughts?

I really don't know.
While I cannot discount it, the theory doesn't completely convince me.

It's true though that's the only footprint that seems to belong to - at the very least - socks, instead of shoes.

However, I want to add that I too have a similar model of sport shoes I bought here in Japan and the way they are shaped make my feet look way bigger than they actually are.

 

[Incoherent]

I really don't know.
While I cannot discount it, the theory doesn't completely convince me.

It's true though that's the only footprint that seems to belong to - at the very least - socks, instead of shoes.

However, I want to add that I too have a similar model of sport shoes I bought here in Japan and the way they are shaped make my feet look way bigger than they actually are.

If we go with the theory that the killer managed to break in, kill Rei, sneak all the way down the staircase without being detected by anyone, and then ambush Mikio, then it would make more sense the killer did take his shoes off at some point right? How quiet could one be walking around in a wooden house in clunky tennis shoes committing murder?

What bothers me is the immediate shoe prints after the sock print. I would need to look carefully at the documentary again to see if a another angle was photographed with a sock print, but I’m unsure where and when the killer would have put his shoes back on again to make it so the prints are like that.

If it isn’t Yasuko’s print we would then need to find reason why she brought Niina down the ladder if she didn’t need to retrieve something like medical supplies from downstairs. I don’t think she would have gone down unless she absolutely had to considering the state they were both in. So it makes sense to me she went to retrieve them from the cabinet.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Let's say the sock/foot print is smaller than the shoe print/size...again makes me wonder of the possibility the clothing was a red herring/costume to throw LE off with a certain demographic and profile. How do we know for certain the clothes weren't purchased only to commit the crime and the killer dresses totally different normally.

I'd be curious the size difference between foot print and shoe size... it would be hard to perform physically wearing shoes too big unless only a size or two then possibly do-able. I'm just putting ideas out there, MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Here is the sneaker in question for reference since it’s under discussion:
View attachment 555581

So we can highly likely say the previously circled print that was shown in the hallway to the kitchen was not from the shoe and is a sock print instead.

In the recreation it shows the killer taking medical supplies from the cabinet in the living room so perhaps this sock print could have been Yasuko attempting to go and retrieve the supplies after descending the loft ladder, but realising the killer was in the kitchen and then turns back around again. The killer then follows and kills Yasuko and Niina on the landing. It looks a lot smaller than the shoe size the killer had and otherwise would mean the killer’s shoes were off at some point and had a smaller foot.

Thoughts?

I thought that maybe if the killer left closer to dawn, so the blood was still thin, or perhaps he was bleeding. Then Haruko when she came in the morning could have stepped into the blood. It looks like a small shoe. It appears somewhere mid-way, so maybe this is where she stepped into that pool.
Could it have been that he left closer to Haruko coming in?

Or, could he have left between Haruko buzzing, then coming back to retrieve the keys and returning back? It could explain the discrepancy between the fact that the first time she came, the door was locked (killer inside) and the second one, open (opened the door and got out). If she entered the house and saw/smelled it, she could have kept the shoes on.