Jason Young to get new trial #2

[JusticeFever]

Also it wouldn't make sense that CY still needed to be cleaned while MF was talking to 911 operator as she and CY went outside while talking to 911 operator till the first responders arrived and found CY "shockingly clean"

I thought it was more than obvious CY was asking for a washcloth for her dead Mommy.

I guess that is left up to interpretation too, as the words after washcloth are unclear.
CY may have seemed clean , but only she would know if she still felt there was blood left on her. Clearly, there was blood in her shoe that no one knew about until they tested it almost a year later! (Oct 12, 2007)

 

[JusticeFever]

You really believe CY did not know her mommy was hurt????

I think CY was a smart little girl. Kids her age know what blood is and when you bleed you have boo-boos! if blood was everywhere CY would know her Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. Did you not hear CY say,"Mommy has boo-boos everywhere?

Let's be clear, even MF did not know what happened to MY, she asked CY if she fell.

 

[MyBelle]

You really believe CY did not know her mommy was hurt????

I think CY was a smart little girl. Kids her age know what blood is and when you bleed you have boo-boos! if blood was everywhere CY would know her Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. Did you not hear CY say,"Mommy has boo-boos everywhere?

Her mother was dead. How would she know she had "boo-boos?" Her mother was face down, not moving. How would she know it was blood from her mother's body? She may have been told that Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. I'm not convinced she ever was close enough to her mother's body to observe anything.


JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Let's be clear, even MF did not know what happened to MY, she asked CY if she fell.

And MF gave Jason's mom the impression that Michelle may have suffered a miscarriage. To even suggest a toddler would know her mother had boo-boos when the adult with her didn't know where they were is pretty weird, imo.

 

[Grammy Jean]

Let's be clear, even MF did not know what happened to MY, she asked CY if she fell.

I agree MF did not know what happened. However, I was responding to the post that said MY was face down so her daughter would not be able to see her mommy's boo-boos. I completely disagree with that. A child that age knows that blood causes boo-boos. so when I hear CY say "she has boo-boos everywhere and asks for a washcloth I believe she wants that to clean her mommy's blood.

 

[Grammy Jean]

And MF gave Jason's mom the impression that Michelle may have suffered a miscarriage. To even suggest a toddler would know her mother had boo-boos when the adult with her didn't know where they were is pretty weird, imo.

Again blood everywhere equals boo-boos. I have grand kids CY's age they know this! SO I guess you did not hear CY on the 911 call say, she has boo-boos everywhere/

 

[Grammy Jean]

Her mother was dead. How would she know she had "boo-boos?" Her mother was face down, not moving. How would she know it was blood from her mother's body? She may have been told that Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. I'm not convinced she ever was close enough to her mother's body to observe anything.


JMO

How do you believe CY's doll was next to MY?

 

[JusticeFever]

I agree MF did not know what happened. However, I was responding to the post that said MY was face down so her daughter would not be able to see her mommy's boo-boos. I completely disagree with that. A child that age knows that blood causes boo-boos. so when I hear CY say "she has boo-boos everywhere and asks for a washcloth I believe she wants that to clean her mommy's blood.

But, that remains unclear and not to keep debating this with you, but what you and I hear or don't hear isn't what counts....It is what is presented in court, it is what is in the written transcript.......and it is what is entered in as evidence.
Jurors are not allowed to do anything more with the 911 call than that.
I wish the call was clearer, I wish I could find the actual court's 911 call transcript.

 

[oenophile]

Her mother was dead. How would she know she had "boo-boos?" Her mother was face down, not moving. How would she know it was blood from her mother's body? She may have been told that Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. I'm not convinced she ever was close enough to her mother's body to observe anything.


JMO

Put your mind in the head of a two year old. She wants to wake up her mother. She shakes her to wake her up (a common tactic for two year olds). She wants food. She shakes her mom to wake her up.

The two year old thinks her mother is asleep. So she plays for a little while. Then tries to wake her up again. She probably cried quite a bit because she wasn't getting attention, just like a normal two year old. She had 10 hours of activities, including sleep, where she probably did many things, such as trying to get dressed, etc.

I think it is very difficult to predict everything a two year old did before she was found.

 

[Grammy Jean]

But, that remains unclear and not to keep debating this with you, but what you and I hear or don't hear isn't what counts....It is what is presented in court, it is what is in the written transcript.......and it is what is entered in as evidence.
Jurors are not allowed to do anything more with the 911 call than that.
I wish the call was clearer, I wish I could find the actual court's 911 call transcript.

You are quite correct. We can hear things differently and it won't make a hill of beans difference in the end. As you said it is the testimony and how the jury interprets it that counts. And let's face it none of us on here would ever be allowed to sit on this jury if there is third trial

 

[Nymeria]

Her mother was dead. How would she know she had "boo-boos?" Her mother was face down, not moving. How would she know it was blood from her mother's body? She may have been told that Mommy had boo-boos everywhere. I'm not convinced she ever was close enough to her mother's body to observe anything.


JMO

Does anyone know FOR SURE that CY did not see any of what happened to MY?

 

[otto]

This whole case strikes me as a situation where Occams Razor applies.

The simplest explanation is that CY was not cleaned. It serves no purpose for anyone (JY, MF, random murderer) to clean her or wash the PJ's. The agent testified that the PJ's had blood stains on them, several in fact. The blood was not invisible. In addition, the blood is not in the same state as someone who is actively bleeding, much of is is likely dried. The simplest explanation is that CY was asleep during the killing, and she discovered her mother later and tracked blood in various locations around the upstairs, some of the blood more visible than others.

I think that there was blood on the pink pajamas and that this was not something that concerned anyone at the time that the murder was discovered. Meredith took the child to her house and washed the pajamas. The analysis of the pajamas indicated that blood was soaked through the pajamas. I don't think that anyone can state that there was or was not blood on the child when she was taken from the scene because she was not photographed. That was an unfortunate oversight.

 

[JusticeFever]

You are quite correct. We can hear things differently and it won't make a hill of beans difference in the end. As you said it is the testimony and how the jury interprets it that counts. And let's face it none of us on here would ever be allowed to sit on this jury if there is third trial

Absolutely, Grammy Jean, and I have to say I enjoy these debates with you!! No way could any of us be Jurors in this trial, we would hang it for sure!! Trial 4???

 

[JusticeFever]

Does anyone know FOR SURE that CY did not see any of what happened to MY?

Nope, not any more sure that CY did see what happened..

 

[Nymeria]

Nope, not any more sure that CY did see what happened..

OK good.
That puts to rest the debate of "How CY would know Mama had Boo-Boo's because she was face down".

If she saw anything she would know (you see someone beat, you deduce "boo-boo's, even as a toddler).
If she saw nothing that is a different avenue.....but can be explained by the child seeing all the blood (boo-boo's = blood, at times).

 

[Grammy Jean]

Absolutely, Grammy Jean, and I have to say I enjoy these debates with you!! No way could any of us be Jurors in this trial, we would hang it for sure!! Trial 4???

Once again I agree with you. It's always best to be able to disagree agreeably.
Trial 4 now that just might put me over the edge!!

 

[JusticeFever]

I think that there was blood on the pink pajamas and that this was not something that concerned anyone at the time that the murder was discovered. Meredith took the child to her house and washed the pajamas. The analysis of the pajamas indicated that blood was soaked through the pajamas. I don't think that anyone can state that there was or was not blood on the child when she was taken from the scene because she was not photographed. That was an unfortunate oversight.

You know, Otto, you make a great point!!. But, why wasn't CY taken to an emergency room to be checked out? Then there would have been medical records to refer to, and they could have taken any samples they needed, etc They could tell if she had any drugs in her system, and, given her what she needed.
And, did it ever occur to anyone she may have been hurt in some other way?. She was just found at a horrific crime scene. I know the responders checked her out, but wouldn't it have been better to have taken her to a hospital??

 

[MyBelle]

I think that there was blood on the pink pajamas and that this was not something that concerned anyone at the time that the murder was discovered. Meredith took the child to her house and washed the pajamas. The analysis of the pajamas indicated that blood was soaked through the pajamas. I don't think that anyone can state that there was or was not blood on the child when she was taken from the scene because she was not photographed. That was an unfortunate oversight.

BBM. There is sworn testimony that what concerned first responders was the fact that there was no visible blood on CY even though she was supposedly alone for hours with her mother's bloody corpse. I have no need to question the credibility of the witnesses who actually did see CY and spoke to Meredith Fisher who also noted there was no blood on CY.

Wake County sheriff's deputy Scott Earp – one of two officers first to arrive at the Young house – testified that he was caught off guard when Fisher told him she had not cleaned the girl.

"I think I expected a ‘yes’ out of it," he said Wednesday. "I thought that was kind of odd."

Fisher testified that she found her niece barefoot and wearing pink fleece pajamas – without a diaper or underwear – and that she did not appear to have any blood on her.


Read more at http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/story/10702549/#8biPtrzLaubSPt06.99

 

[otto]

You know, Otto, you make a great point!!. But, why wasn't CY taken to an emergency room to be checked out? Then there would have been medical records to refer to, and they could have taken any samples they needed, etc They could tell if she had any drugs in her system, and, given her what she needed.
And, did it ever occur to anyone she may have been hurt in some other way?. She was just at a horrific crime scene. I know the responders checked her out, but wouldn't it have been better to have taken her to a hospital??

I think that this was another consequence of tunnel vision. Investigators told the medical examiner that a rape test was not necessary for Michelle, and it appears that investigators decided that the child was not traumatized, or injured, and did not need to be examined by a medical doctor.

 

[JusticeFever]

Once again I agree with you. It's always best to be able to disagree agreeably.
Trial 4 now that just might put me over the edge!!

I don't think anyone would make it to a Trial 4!! But, seriously, one of the biggest problems I have with the 911 call, before and now, is IF CY clearly said anything to implicate Jason, I would have a hard time thinking that some type of child agency would not be called to step in to have an emergency hearing. If LE heard those words and just gave CY back to JY, then they were playing a deadly game with CY's life. Many times they gave public statements that they felt CY had witnessed MY's murder, putting CY in danger, imo. They even called her The Silent Witness,something I just heard about, that was featured on Dateline.
So, out of all the reasons I question the 911 call and its contents, would be the decision to hand CY back to JY without, what would seem, caring about her safety.
Whether they thought Jason would harm her not, they would be turning the child over to a murderer.