JBR, PR and UMI

  • #641
You cannot imagine, my frustration at working so long on PR's profile and then hitting "Go Advanced" instead of the "Post quick reply". It was gone.... Simply vanished into cyber space.

Agatha>>>> Bangs head on desk and weeps bitter tears...lol...

I'll have it back up in about an hour maybe two..lol... Sorry again... Why do I think this site is a test of patience from God?
 
  • #642
You cannot imagine, my frustration at working so long on PR's profile and then hitting "Go Advanced" instead of the "Post quick reply". It was gone.... Simply vanished into cyber space.

Agatha>>>> Bangs head on desk and weeps bitter tears...lol...

Agatha, we're all here for you.

I'll have it back up in about an hour maybe two..lol... Sorry again... Why do I think this site is a test of patience from God?

Join the club. I accepted long ago that this is my test. And the gods hate cowards.
 
  • #643
Your a good man Dave. I'ma get buy with a little help from my friends... You have me singing Joe Cocker..lol...
 
  • #644
Your a good man Dave. I'ma get buy with a little help from my friends... You have me singing Joe Cocker..lol...

Joe was pretty cool, but I'm hearing the Beatles myself, bet they had some really interesting friends!

Ok, back on topic.
 
  • #645
PR, Heartbroken Mother or the Ultimate Victim of Abuse……

We have taken a look at the major players in PR’s life, a cold, exacting and controlling mother, a sexually abusive father, and a husband engaged in psychological warfare.

I want to share something personal, so that you might better understand what I’ll be sharing with you in PR profile. My sister and I were victims of abuse, sexual, physical, and mental. My mother would turn the sound up on the TV, in her room when the crying was too loud. The next day she would be sure to tell us just how much we failed her as daughters. If we would just be good, it wouldn’t be like this. We went through that and more that I spared you, for 14 and 15 years. Now, me, I was lucky I came out of it scarred but whole and healthy. My sister was not so lucky and it would be years before we knew just how much trouble she was in. She was grown and had children before I started to see the warning signs. One day she was right handed and the next left or she would say she couldn’t wear a certain perfume because she was allergic and then ask for it for her birthday, always weird things. I honestly thought I was going nuts and not her. Then I stopped looking at her as the sister that I loved, and instead, I saw her as an abuse victim. My sister was not one but several people. She was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) by a professional. For years, no one knew, or saw anything, not until the stress of three children, a career, and busy life began take its toll. I thank God that he made me who I am or I might not have known the signs of trouble, until it was too late.

It works like this for my sister and I believe PR.. No one is sure why some abuse victims form alters and some don’t. Its believed that some brains are weaker and prone to mental conditions especially when effected by severe abuse. The child’s mind splits, allowing them to leave the abuse they are experiencing, in fact, in the child’s mind they are not there at all. Its at that point that they create a False-Front: These are designed for everyday social functioning and replace the absent Original Personality.

These alter-personalities will not be able to process negative emotions such as anger. If the abuse continues, they will develop anger, which they cannot deal with, so they now must create a Persecutor alter-personality to manage the anger.

Persecutors: These alter-personalities are designed to accept, hold, process and express forbidden negative emotions. They commonly make themselves as clones of the abuser, using the defense mechanism of "identification with the aggressor." (If one is the abuser, then one cannot be killed by that abuser.) The Persecutors require most of the reconstructive therapy time, so that they can be neutralized and integrated with the Original Personality.

Helpers: When a Persecutor causes such social trouble that the patient is in danger, the balance of forces is maintained by the creation of a specific Helper alter-personality who is assigned to deal with that Persecutor.

In a nut shell… ALTER-PERSONALITIES ("ALTERS"): A Mental Entity (ME) created by the victim, by the process of dissociation, for the purpose of operating the body so that the person will survive trauma. The victim creates them from personality characteristics available to the Original Personality and programs them to perform certain needed survival-oriented functions.

The victim, my sister and PR, their “Original Personalities” are hidden. Like all frightened, scared or hurt children, they hid for a very long time. The false front is what the world sees and if they have more than one alter you’ll see them before the Original. You might wonder at how they hide it for so long. Many can’t, but for some they function at high levels and appear normal, until something triggers their defenses like stress or trauma, or an illness left to long untended. A victim may also be borderline and show no signs at all until the triggered event.

For PR, there was a list… Cancer (the first trigger, the beginning) creating grandiose delusion, she was chosen, divine, and spoke with God (not that you can’t, I do every day, but he doesn’t tell me I deserve things more than others, like Christmas).
Her husband’s affair and for those that want to argue, do you really think he had only one, on one wife? This wife had not been able to have sexual relations for quite a while. I know, most men wouldn’t cheat, but he had before.
S
he was about to turn 40, this age alone has been known to have a negative effect on many, many women. One as Narcissistic as the beauty queen, would have had trouble with that age and I think the big bash her husband threw, well, I think it was a tactic in his game.

sychological abuse from JR… He was turning those kids against her, I feel she was slipping and they all saw it when behind closed doors. The children already a little afraid, bought into their fathers propaganda…. JB’s not wanting, to be in the pageants any longer, her liking of daddy’s gifts more than mommy’s, the rebelling, arguing and overall withdrawl from PR. Also, the molestation would have JB, in her mother’s role of blaming PR, for not protecting her. I believe that PR, had dumped her original personality onto JB and when the one she had sheltered all those years, rejected her, it was devastating to PR psyche

The final straw, the molestation of JB/original personality….

I think JR saw how close PR was to a breakdown, I don’t think he knew just how mentally ill she was, just that she was unstable. If he applied enough pressure, she would crack, he would have her certified and he would gain control of their life and she would have none.

The thing is, those with (DID), are smart, the alters are always on the lookout, with an uncanny sense of things not being right, they recognized abuse when they see it and the persecutor was on guard. This is when it became serious, the trigger had been pulled and nothing was going to be the same again.

JR, methodically planned three trips during a major holiday (very stressful for mentally healthy people), he spent Christmas day with his mistress before going to the White’s, leaving PR to deal with things alone (more stress and mental agitation, hurt, and humiliation), he was reminding her she was turning 40 by celebrating it twice (vain women have had nervous breakdowns over the thought of 40), I believe they argued that night over all of it and JB took her father’s side (the ultimate betrayal) and JB at some point finally admitted who was molesting her…. PR broke….

Only the alters where there to take care of her, I think she reacted in a psychotic break, lashing out at the abusers, the child (her original, that was weak, that she hated), the child (her daughter the one that needed to be saved from the abuse) How many alters were involved no one can know… But PR ended the suffering that day or so she thought….

Now, I think the alter known as the helper, did just that and helped PR, with staging in way that implicated JR and he restaged (but that really getting into theory and not profiling, so another time on that)….

I don’t think anyone, including herself, knew who the real PR was. She was Nedra (the persecutor) and Jean Brodie (the false front), the beauty queen (the helper) and the child JB. No one knows the Original PR, she killed her that night, she died with her daughter and was buried with her in Georgia….

PR died knowing, she had taken everything from JR, their money, their home, their business, his power and their child, he was stuck with her and then she died leaving him holding the bag…. The gun had backfired

Well, folks maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m crazy but this is how I read it. This makes sense in my mind and from what I know about mental illness and child abuse…. Hope it helps some of you or gives you some understanding of the dynamics of all abuse and it effect on the mind….

Keeping fingers crossed that it posts…
 
  • #646
Wow, Agatha. That makes so much sense according to every interview and tv appearance that I've seen from the Ramseys. I will never forget how she seemed to revert to a child when asked about the abuse. It was hard to read. Also, the time she told the detective "Dont go there, Buddy", that was a side of Patsy that few ever saw and he should have seen that day that there were many sides to her. Yes,
Boulder LE and DA's office made a lot of mistakes, the fist one not getting a phsyc. profile on Patsy, although she never would have agreed. Thank you for all the time you put into these posts. They are very informative and helpful. I have to go now, will be back later this evening. WIll try to catch up on the reading here when I get back. Thanks again, Becky
 
  • #647
Agatha,

Why didn't JR have her committed for at least 30 days observation after the murder?
If he can show all these examples of her behavior being odd any claims she makes that he helped would be considered part of her delusions or and effort to lay blame somewhere besides herself.


DID reminds me of Sybil who developed not 1 but several, I think 14 total, "personalities".
 
  • #648
Cathy,

If he was molesting his child, why would he let PR talk to a doctor. She had proof from a pediatrician, I believe anyway. Also, there were the fibers at the scene. Also, this is just a profile of her mental state, we have no idea what was going on inside that home for months,weeks days or maybe even years.

We don't know, I can only guess.

Sibil had 16 alters..
 
  • #649
Cathy,

It helps if I wake up before I answer questions to my post. ....

Think about this, what did PR and DP, know about JR? How long was the molestation going on (this profile is based on my belief that there was molestation). Think about it this way, if the molestation was proven by PR, backed up by the pediatrician, and the child died in what looks like a sex crime, who do you think is going down. PR, gets a trip a hospital for the break down she had over the abuse and JR goes to jail, his career is ruined, his reputation is ruined and PR wins the war.

The War of the Roses...Great movie by the way, sorta explains the dynamics of this couple. It was war, and they were both caught up in it. Its much deeper then one night and a one horrible incident.

It also makes sense of all the things that haven't made sense for me...

The pineapple and tea, maybe she really didn't remember giving it to BR and JB. Just maybe an alter did.

Could be why PR was unable to remember things such as, when JB had had her last bath, or changed her panties.

Another interesting piece of information, is the fact that art is used for therapy in the treatment of people diagnosed with (DID). Could be, someone was already helping her.

I refer again to Betty Broderick, she was going nuts publicly and no one locked her up for psych evaluation.

If JR, dumped it on PR as her being disturbed it does not explain, his fibers or the prior molestation and then there was BR, what did he know? Who would talk to him and find out what was really going on, in the house on 15th st.
 
  • #650
If someone was already treating PR, was he the unknown? Did she call her doctor, or JB's, one and the same in my opinion. I believe he was the one helping PR. Doctor Beuf knows far more then he is given credit for (IMO).

If he could corroborate the molestation, JR, was in trouble.
 
  • #651
Just WOW.

Many thanks, Agathe C.

What a great understandable explanation of splitting and Disassociative Id Disorder. Your adding the extra-special observation of your own sister makes it believable and realistic for those who might poo-poo the whole syndrome.

It certainly can explain both Patsy's AND JR's actions in the aftermath.

One of my thoughts on reading your explaination of the alter-identity of "Persecutor" was HITLER, who himself was severely abused AND came from Jewish heritage. It can also explain why incredibly heinous sadistic monsters often show inconsistencies in behaviors, like loving and caring tenderly for pets.

Looking forward to more of your posts.....

And thanks again.
 
  • #652
OneLove,

Thank you, for the response. Many people even in the mental health industry, pooh pooh the idea. I'm here to tell you its a fact.

It makes perfect sense to me in so many crimes and as you mentioned, even Hitler.
 
  • #653
My Grandmother had DID. She had been separated from her father, after her mother died at two. She was sent first to Sicily, than to Italy, by the time she was four.

She was returned to the US, with her twin brother, prior to WW 2, when he joined Hitler youth and threatened to turn in their Uncle. A Duke in Italy at the time.

She came back, no money, speaking no English and married my grandfather. My grandfather was physically abusive. My grandmother tried to leave him, but the priest stopped her. The old story of, you made your bed, you lie in it.

My grandmother was very successful and accomplished. She gave signs of the disorder, but it was actually very well hidden. She was President of the Music Teachers Assoc. And was a music teacher for 50 years.

After her death, from cancer, we found out about 'Sasha'. We also learned about 'Bernard'. Thinking back, there were signs, but my Grandma had money and we thought she was a bit eccentric. Noppers.

My Grandmother left a 5 drawer filing cabinet of music, both by artists and music she had written, to my Mom. In this were the clues to my Grandmothers illness. Bills to psychiatrists, recordings of her other personalities voices and notes and letters about her life, from all three personalities.

Very freaky actually. Very well hidden.
 
  • #654
Gives you chills doesn't it. So you see, its not so far fetched is it, to believe this could be the case?
 
  • #655
So you see, its not so far fetched is it, to believe this could be the case?

If it WERE, Agatha, I wouldn't have brought it up to begin with.
 
  • #656
If I weren't married with a house full of kids Dave, I'd stalk you (that was just a joke, and you all know)... Your incredibly intelligent Dave.

So, you think she was DID, too?

That's my gut feeling. It makes so much sense of that which doesn't. Does that even make sense?

The RN, seems to be written by more then one person. If PR, has an Alter/s, it would make sense of the RN.
 
  • #657
If I weren't married with a house full of kids Dave, I'd stalk you (that was just a joke, and you all know)... Your incredibly intelligent Dave.

Thank you.

So, you think she was DID, too?

I honestly don't know. My main reason for starting this thread was the chance that someone withy more expertise would help me out. All I have to go on is her regression into child-like behavior at times, especially when asked if she was abused.

That's my gut feeling. It makes so much sense of that which doesn't. Does that even make sense?

It does.

The RN, seems to be written by more then one person. If PR, has an Alter/s, it would make sense of the RN.

That's getting into territory I'd rather not get into.
 
  • #658
Another thing that I think is relevant is the fact that her friends were planning an intervention. We may know what they said the intervention was about, but we don't know the truth of this at all, in my opinion. After the death of JB, none of the friends were going to admit just how much trouble they could see coming.
 
  • #659
Another thing that I think is relevant is the fact that her friends were planning an intervention. We may know what they said the intervention was about, but we don't know the truth of this at all, in my opinion. After the death of JB, none of the friends were going to admit just how much trouble they could see coming.

I always found the intervention very interesting. Patsy's friends wanted to talk to her about "mega JBR". Hmm..what does that even mean? Why hasn't any of her friends expanded on that in the years? If you look at the last week (or two?) of JBR's life, she was in a pageant, sang at the mall within some group, and performed in front of every grade in her school. And she also rode in the parade in the beginning of December plus the pageant in Hawaii in January. That's a lot of work for anyone, especially a 6-year-old. It would make sense if Patsy's friends observed how much performing JBR was doing during that week and decided to wait until the holidays were over to talk to Patsy about it, since they probably assumed that it was just going to get worse as JBR got older.
 
  • #660
Patsy reminds me a lot of Brooke Shield's mother, Teri. They both realized that their daughters were beautiful and wanted to show them off to everyone. JonBenet and Brooke both seemed to be "trophy children" whose mothers were living through them. They also both had questionable pictures and videos taken of them that still cause controversy years later. They both looked a lot older in photoshoots taken of them. Brooke's mom had a very tight reign over her and I believe that if JBR had lived, Patsy would have been a dominating force in her life. I don't know if she would have tried to make JBR famous but I do think she would make sure that JonBenet was in lots of extracurricular activities, sports, honor roll, volunteering, and of course, pageants. "JonBenet, you will run for class president and you will win." By looking at JBR's 1996 Christmas week schedule, it seems that Patsy was already beginning to micromanage every second of her daughter's life. I can definitely see her being the mother who would tell a 14-year-old JBR what she would be doing for every second of the week. I believe that Patsy's obsession over controlling every aspect of JBR's life began in December. Can we think of any other week where JBR had more performances/appearances to take part in? Is it just a coincidence that JBR is murdered following a hectic week of entertaining others?
 

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