JBR, PR and UMI

  • #681
Eileen,

IMO, your part right, I don't think JB, wanted to do the pageants, but I think it was more to do with her father convincing her that she didn't want too. Which, would have been the right thing to do, just that I think he had an ulterior motive in doing it.
 
  • #682
Or maybe I should put it like this... JB, really didn't want to do them and JR, egged it on. Could be, she wanted him to stop hurting her and would do anything he asked.
 
  • #683
Very true, Eileen. I can't recall a SINGLE Miss Teen USA and less than a handful of Miss America winners. While some went on to bigger things (and for many the "bigger thing" was simply a wealthy husband), none are really world-wide names.
 
  • #684
Very true, Eileen. I can't recall a SINGLE Miss Teen USA and less than a handful of Miss America winners. While some went on to bigger things (and for many the "bigger thing" was simply a wealthy husband), none are really world-wide names.

I can only remember the name of one Miss America winner and that is because she won the year my cousin competed. (Creepy fact: My cousin competed in the pageant just two years before JBR was killed and her cause was child abduction. And she later competed in the Miss USA pageant in Shreveport where apparently, they found the letter that said JBR was abused). However, even if we can remember the names of a few, I wouldn't say that any of them can be called household names.

I think that Patsy and Nedra expected JBR to be Miss Teen USA and Miss America. They had to know that the women who won those titles don't become household names and huge celebrities. I think they wanted JBR to be huge in the pageant world but they weren't looking for her to be a big celebrity. If they were, Patsy could have just taken JBR to Hollywood to go on auditions and get an agent. I assume that there is a big subculture for these pageants where although we can't tell you who Miss America 2010 was; they definitely can.
 
  • #685
PR, Heartbroken Mother or the Ultimate Victim of Abuse……

We have taken a look at the major players in PR’s life, a cold, exacting and controlling mother, a sexually abusive father, and a husband engaged in psychological warfare.

I want to share something personal, so that you might better understand what I’ll be sharing with you in PR profile. My sister and I were victims of abuse, sexual, physical, and mental. My mother would turn the sound up on the TV, in her room when the crying was too loud. The next day she would be sure to tell us just how much we failed her as daughters. If we would just be good, it wouldn’t be like this. We went through that and more that I spared you, for 14 and 15 years. Now, me, I was lucky I came out of it scarred but whole and healthy. My sister was not so lucky and it would be years before we knew just how much trouble she was in. She was grown and had children before I started to see the warning signs. One day she was right handed and the next left or she would say she couldn’t wear a certain perfume because she was allergic and then ask for it for her birthday, always weird things. I honestly thought I was going nuts and not her. Then I stopped looking at her as the sister that I loved, and instead, I saw her as an abuse victim. My sister was not one but several people. She was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) by a professional. For years, no one knew, or saw anything, not until the stress of three children, a career, and busy life began take its toll. I thank God that he made me who I am or I might not have known the signs of trouble, until it was too late.

It works like this for my sister and I believe PR.. No one is sure why some abuse victims form alters and some don’t. Its believed that some brains are weaker and prone to mental conditions especially when effected by severe abuse. The child’s mind splits, allowing them to leave the abuse they are experiencing, in fact, in the child’s mind they are not there at all. Its at that point that they create a False-Front: These are designed for everyday social functioning and replace the absent Original Personality.

These alter-personalities will not be able to process negative emotions such as anger. If the abuse continues, they will develop anger, which they cannot deal with, so they now must create a Persecutor alter-personality to manage the anger.

Persecutors: These alter-personalities are designed to accept, hold, process and express forbidden negative emotions. They commonly make themselves as clones of the abuser, using the defense mechanism of "identification with the aggressor." (If one is the abuser, then one cannot be killed by that abuser.) The Persecutors require most of the reconstructive therapy time, so that they can be neutralized and integrated with the Original Personality.

Helpers: When a Persecutor causes such social trouble that the patient is in danger, the balance of forces is maintained by the creation of a specific Helper alter-personality who is assigned to deal with that Persecutor.

In a nut shell… ALTER-PERSONALITIES ("ALTERS"): A Mental Entity (ME) created by the victim, by the process of dissociation, for the purpose of operating the body so that the person will survive trauma. The victim creates them from personality characteristics available to the Original Personality and programs them to perform certain needed survival-oriented functions.

The victim, my sister and PR, their “Original Personalities” are hidden. Like all frightened, scared or hurt children, they hid for a very long time. The false front is what the world sees and if they have more than one alter you’ll see them before the Original. You might wonder at how they hide it for so long. Many can’t, but for some they function at high levels and appear normal, until something triggers their defenses like stress or trauma, or an illness left to long untended. A victim may also be borderline and show no signs at all until the triggered event.

For PR, there was a list… Cancer (the first trigger, the beginning) creating grandiose delusion, she was chosen, divine, and spoke with God (not that you can’t, I do every day, but he doesn’t tell me I deserve things more than others, like Christmas).
Her husband’s affair and for those that want to argue, do you really think he had only one, on one wife? This wife had not been able to have sexual relations for quite a while. I know, most men wouldn’t cheat, but he had before.
S
he was about to turn 40, this age alone has been known to have a negative effect on many, many women. One as Narcissistic as the beauty queen, would have had trouble with that age and I think the big bash her husband threw, well, I think it was a tactic in his game.

sychological abuse from JR… He was turning those kids against her, I feel she was slipping and they all saw it when behind closed doors. The children already a little afraid, bought into their fathers propaganda…. JB’s not wanting, to be in the pageants any longer, her liking of daddy’s gifts more than mommy’s, the rebelling, arguing and overall withdrawl from PR. Also, the molestation would have JB, in her mother’s role of blaming PR, for not protecting her. I believe that PR, had dumped her original personality onto JB and when the one she had sheltered all those years, rejected her, it was devastating to PR psyche

The final straw, the molestation of JB/original personality….

I think JR saw how close PR was to a breakdown, I don’t think he knew just how mentally ill she was, just that she was unstable. If he applied enough pressure, she would crack, he would have her certified and he would gain control of their life and she would have none.

The thing is, those with (DID), are smart, the alters are always on the lookout, with an uncanny sense of things not being right, they recognized abuse when they see it and the persecutor was on guard. This is when it became serious, the trigger had been pulled and nothing was going to be the same again.

JR, methodically planned three trips during a major holiday (very stressful for mentally healthy people), he spent Christmas day with his mistress before going to the White’s, leaving PR to deal with things alone (more stress and mental agitation, hurt, and humiliation), he was reminding her she was turning 40 by celebrating it twice (vain women have had nervous breakdowns over the thought of 40), I believe they argued that night over all of it and JB took her father’s side (the ultimate betrayal) and JB at some point finally admitted who was molesting her…. PR broke….

Only the alters where there to take care of her, I think she reacted in a psychotic break, lashing out at the abusers, the child (her original, that was weak, that she hated), the child (her daughter the one that needed to be saved from the abuse) How many alters were involved no one can know… But PR ended the suffering that day or so she thought….

Now, I think the alter known as the helper, did just that and helped PR, with staging in way that implicated JR and he restaged (but that really getting into theory and not profiling, so another time on that)….

I don’t think anyone, including herself, knew who the real PR was. She was Nedra (the persecutor) and Jean Brodie (the false front), the beauty queen (the helper) and the child JB. No one knows the Original PR, she killed her that night, she died with her daughter and was buried with her in Georgia….

PR died knowing, she had taken everything from JR, their money, their home, their business, his power and their child, he was stuck with her and then she died leaving him holding the bag…. The gun had backfired

Well, folks maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m crazy but this is how I read it. This makes sense in my mind and from what I know about mental illness and child abuse…. Hope it helps some of you or gives you some understanding of the dynamics of all abuse and it effect on the mind….

Keeping fingers crossed that it posts…

This was such a great description of alter-personalities formed from 'splitting' to survive trauma that I just HAVE to ask this question:

What are your thoughts on the hypothesis that JR was involved in the secretive govt.-backed program to create alter personalities in individuals (especially beauty queens) so that the information they would 'carry' would be safe from discovery, embedded so deeply in alters that under questioning and even torture, one alter could not access that information from the other alter? This program really existed. The documents, now unclassified, are gruesome and heartwrenching. Some victims have sued through public courts.

Early in this case, I was reading some posts questioning whether JBR was involved in this, with JR's knowledge.

I tend to think it more likely a case of plain old-fashioned family dysfunction, abuse, incest, psychosis, etc. But your explanations of the splitting into alter personalities are so on-target that I'm interested in what you think about the possibilities.
 
  • #686
Onelove,

You know, I have read some about that and at one time I had entertained the idea. I mean, really, it's not any more out there then saying she has alter personalities from severe mental and sexual abuse.

What I will say is this, JR, was a smart man and I believe, from the books we hear about them having. It wouldn't be beyond belief to learn, he has read about it. If, like Dan Broderick, he set out to methodically wage psychological warfare, he very well may have done his homework. Making him even more responsible I think then PR. If she was having a psychotic break, then she was sick (I mean that in the most humane way) and needed help. If he was pushing buttons, then JR, is just as guilty as he would be, had he put a gun to JBR's head and pulled the trigger.

Those poor souls that had their minds taken from them in that program, how do you fix that or make it up to someone. You have taken their lives and left them living, if that makes sense?

God send us angels, for the evil here, is beyond human understanding.
 
  • #687
Agatha, what a horrific childhood....I cannot even begin to imagine being in that position and then having the person you should trust the most, completely turn her back and be abusive as well. Devastating.

Generally speaking, this case is polarizing no matter what side of the fence one sits on. I have no doubt that peoples (including mine) prior/past experiences in our childhoods: the good, the great, the bad & the horrific, lays the groundwork for a steadfast opinion for each of us.
 
  • #688
Elven

Thank you! Your gracious post has touched me deeply. You have an amazing understanding of people with a genuine kindness. I truly respect you for that. Again thank you.
 
  • #689
There are little girls who are very girly and would love to get their hair and makeup done just like the teenagers do.



They have no idea what they like/love when they are so young.This is why I blame the mothers for it.It's like giving an arsonist a match box.Why do it,don't girls have enough problems with sexuality,etc these days,they grow up too fast,etc
I mean,it's okay to start being interested in make-up when you're 15,16....but when you're 5,6 it's impossible UNLESS someone TEACHES you to like/love it.

moo
 
  • #690
Maddy,

You're right. Little girls should just be little girls. Today, children grow up so fast. I can see them loving the makeup and hair extension's, I just don't see them loving all of that for long. I also think there are those that do enjoy it, just not as many as we see at those pageants.

Does a mother really need a trophy, to tell her, her child is special or beautiful. Or that all she has to offer to the world as a whole is her external beauty. I don't buy the college theory, as there are other ways to achieve that goal, such as academics. I would say sports, but thats a whole other kind of parent (lol).

Its a sign of an aggressive and materialistic people that eat the weak.
 
  • #691
But why would JonBenet have to "perform" on Christmas morning? Why would she not have a genuine smile on her face? I can see having a forced grin while taking hundreds of pictures during a photoshoot after getting your hair and makeup done but this was Christmas morning. What was going on that morning to make a 6-year-old not happy?

I received a MyTwinn doll for Christmas when I was 7. It wasn't a surprise and I remember my mom spent weeks customizing every aspect of the doll. You could make that doll look however you wanted it to look as you got to choose the exact physical attributes you wanted. My mom spent a lot of time making that doll. I remember her constantly telling me to look up at her so she could see the exact shape of my nose. I can see Patsy being upset that JBR didn't like the doll because of how much effort she put into creating it. Patsy could have easily made the doll look absolutely perfect with perfectly symmetrical features. I can see JBR opening the doll and not liking it because it wasn't her.

Heyya eileenhawkeye.

Did you enjoy your MyTwinn doll?
Were you allowed to play with it?
or was it stored somewhere, ornamental rather than a functional toy?
 
  • #692
PR, Heartbroken Mother or the Ultimate Victim of Abuse……

We have taken a look at the major players in PR’s life, a cold, exacting and controlling mother, a sexually abusive father, and a husband engaged in psychological warfare.

I want to share something personal, so that you might better understand what I’ll be sharing with you in PR profile. My sister and I were victims of abuse, sexual, physical, and mental. My mother would turn the sound up on the TV, in her room when the crying was too loud. The next day she would be sure to tell us just how much we failed her as daughters. If we would just be good, it wouldn’t be like this. We went through that and more that I spared you, for 14 and 15 years. Now, me, I was lucky I came out of it scarred but whole and healthy. My sister was not so lucky and it would be years before we knew just how much trouble she was in. She was grown and had children before I started to see the warning signs. One day she was right handed and the next left or she would say she couldn’t wear a certain perfume because she was allergic and then ask for it for her birthday, always weird things. I honestly thought I was going nuts and not her. Then I stopped looking at her as the sister that I loved, and instead, I saw her as an abuse victim. My sister was not one but several people. She was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) by a professional. For years, no one knew, or saw anything, not until the stress of three children, a career, and busy life began take its toll. I thank God that he made me who I am or I might not have known the signs of trouble, until it was too late.

It works like this for my sister and I believe PR.. No one is sure why some abuse victims form alters and some don’t. Its believed that some brains are weaker and prone to mental conditions especially when effected by severe abuse. The child’s mind splits, allowing them to leave the abuse they are experiencing, in fact, in the child’s mind they are not there at all. Its at that point that they create a False-Front: These are designed for everyday social functioning and replace the absent Original Personality.

These alter-personalities will not be able to process negative emotions such as anger. If the abuse continues, they will develop anger, which they cannot deal with, so they now must create a Persecutor alter-personality to manage the anger.

Persecutors: These alter-personalities are designed to accept, hold, process and express forbidden negative emotions. They commonly make themselves as clones of the abuser, using the defense mechanism of "identification with the aggressor." (If one is the abuser, then one cannot be killed by that abuser.) The Persecutors require most of the reconstructive therapy time, so that they can be neutralized and integrated with the Original Personality.

Helpers: When a Persecutor causes such social trouble that the patient is in danger, the balance of forces is maintained by the creation of a specific Helper alter-personality who is assigned to deal with that Persecutor.

In a nut shell… ALTER-PERSONALITIES ("ALTERS"): A Mental Entity (ME) created by the victim, by the process of dissociation, for the purpose of operating the body so that the person will survive trauma. The victim creates them from personality characteristics available to the Original Personality and programs them to perform certain needed survival-oriented functions.

The victim, my sister and PR, their “Original Personalities” are hidden. Like all frightened, scared or hurt children, they hid for a very long time. The false front is what the world sees and if they have more than one alter you’ll see them before the Original. You might wonder at how they hide it for so long. Many can’t, but for some they function at high levels and appear normal, until something triggers their defenses like stress or trauma, or an illness left to long untended. A victim may also be borderline and show no signs at all until the triggered event.

For PR, there was a list… Cancer (the first trigger, the beginning) creating grandiose delusion, she was chosen, divine, and spoke with God (not that you can’t, I do every day, but he doesn’t tell me I deserve things more than others, like Christmas).
Her husband’s affair and for those that want to argue, do you really think he had only one, on one wife? This wife had not been able to have sexual relations for quite a while. I know, most men wouldn’t cheat, but he had before.
S
he was about to turn 40, this age alone has been known to have a negative effect on many, many women. One as Narcissistic as the beauty queen, would have had trouble with that age and I think the big bash her husband threw, well, I think it was a tactic in his game.

sychological abuse from JR… He was turning those kids against her, I feel she was slipping and they all saw it when behind closed doors. The children already a little afraid, bought into their fathers propaganda…. JB’s not wanting, to be in the pageants any longer, her liking of daddy’s gifts more than mommy’s, the rebelling, arguing and overall withdrawl from PR. Also, the molestation would have JB, in her mother’s role of blaming PR, for not protecting her. I believe that PR, had dumped her original personality onto JB and when the one she had sheltered all those years, rejected her, it was devastating to PR psyche

The final straw, the molestation of JB/original personality….

I think JR saw how close PR was to a breakdown, I don’t think he knew just how mentally ill she was, just that she was unstable. If he applied enough pressure, she would crack, he would have her certified and he would gain control of their life and she would have none.

The thing is, those with (DID), are smart, the alters are always on the lookout, with an uncanny sense of things not being right, they recognized abuse when they see it and the persecutor was on guard. This is when it became serious, the trigger had been pulled and nothing was going to be the same again.

JR, methodically planned three trips during a major holiday (very stressful for mentally healthy people), he spent Christmas day with his mistress before going to the White’s, leaving PR to deal with things alone (more stress and mental agitation, hurt, and humiliation), he was reminding her she was turning 40 by celebrating it twice (vain women have had nervous breakdowns over the thought of 40), I believe they argued that night over all of it and JB took her father’s side (the ultimate betrayal) and JB at some point finally admitted who was molesting her…. PR broke….

Only the alters where there to take care of her, I think she reacted in a psychotic break, lashing out at the abusers, the child (her original, that was weak, that she hated), the child (her daughter the one that needed to be saved from the abuse) How many alters were involved no one can know… But PR ended the suffering that day or so she thought….

Now, I think the alter known as the helper, did just that and helped PR, with staging in way that implicated JR and he restaged (but that really getting into theory and not profiling, so another time on that)….

I don’t think anyone, including herself, knew who the real PR was. She was Nedra (the persecutor) and Jean Brodie (the false front), the beauty queen (the helper) and the child JB. No one knows the Original PR, she killed her that night, she died with her daughter and was buried with her in Georgia….

PR died knowing, she had taken everything from JR, their money, their home, their business, his power and their child, he was stuck with her and then she died leaving him holding the bag…. The gun had backfired

Well, folks maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m crazy but this is how I read it. This makes sense in my mind and from what I know about mental illness and child abuse…. Hope it helps some of you or gives you some understanding of the dynamics of all abuse and it effect on the mind….

Keeping fingers crossed that it posts…

Heyya Agatha_C.

Thanks for the insight. Fascinating. I had always wondered why some victims become abusers.
 
  • #693
Heyya eileenhawkeye.

Did you enjoy your MyTwinn doll?
Were you allowed to play with it?
or was it stored somewhere, ornamental rather than a functional toy?

I was allowed to play with it. My mom even got one of herself and I was allowed to play with that one too. I remember that my friends and I liked to play with my American Girl dolls a lot better than the MyTwinn dolls because the MyTwinn doll's legs were bent so they couldn't stand up straight and we hated that. Therefore, although I was allowed to play with the MyTwinn dolls, I barely did and they mostly took on the role of the older sister who was never around when we decided to play with the dolls. My mom liked those dolls a lot better than I did.
 
  • #694
Going back to that last photo one more time (thanks again, mtm). Patsy had obviously been crying. I think she may have also had one more stresser. If you recall, John bought her a Bicycle for Christmas. Gee, how romantic. Bet ya she was wondering what he bought his girlfriend and you know it was not a bicycle!
 
  • #695
Going back to that last photo one more time (thanks again, mtm). Patsy had obviously been crying. I think she may have also had one more stresser. If you recall, John bought her a Bicycle for Christmas. Gee, how romantic. Bet ya she was wondering what he bought his girlfriend and you know it was not a bicycle!
Speaking of photos: We don't know what JBR's My Twinn doll was wearing, do we? I have this awful vision stuck in my head: JBR being "dressed out" in her casket looking all the world like her My Twinn doll.
 
  • #696
Speaking of photos: We don't know what JBR's My Twinn doll was wearing, do we? I have this awful vision stuck in my head: JBR being "dressed out" in her casket looking all the world like her My Twinn doll.

Look what I found:

My Twinn partnered with Fao Schwartz in 1996 and the dolls were offered through their catalog and flagship store.

Patsy and JBR went to NYC in December 1996 and I believe they stopped at FAO Schwartz. You can also see presents from FAO Schwartz in the Christmas morning pictures of JBR and Burke. Did Patsy get the MyTwinn doll during the NYC trip?

I also found the 1996 Fall FAO Schwartz catalog which includes the MyTwinn dolls on eBay. I would assume that the catalog would include all the outfits. It would be interesting to see if any of the outfits offered matches the outfit that JBR was buried in---there's a video of her in a pageant wearing the outfit about a month before she was killed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/F-A-O-Schwarz-Fall-1996-Catalog-Big-Barbie-My-Twinn-/390235441596?pt=Magazines&hash=item5adbd849bc#ht_500wt_922
 
  • #697
MyTwinn dolls are still available. Mattel owns the company now. Today's version can be customized a great deal, but not as much as the ones available back then. JB's doll was dressed in a pageant-style dress with a tiara. I don't know the color.
Not sure of the color of the dress JB was buried in. Back then, camera phones were not as common as they are now. But there were "stealth"-type cameras then, in pens, etc. I am surprised no one snuck a pic of her in the coffin, horrible as that would be. If it happened today, that photo would be viral in a matter minutes.
 
  • #698
MyTwinn dolls are still available. Mattel owns the company now. Today's version can be customized a great deal, but not as much as the ones available back then. JB's doll was dressed in a pageant-style dress with a tiara. I don't know the color.
Not sure of the color of the dress JB was buried in. Back then, camera phones were not as common as they are now. But there were "stealth"-type cameras then, in pens, etc. I am surprised no one snuck a pic of her in the coffin, horrible as that would be. If it happened today, that photo would be viral in a matter minutes.

DeeDee, I'm sure the photo that I saw was not real, but NE did publish a so called photo of JB in her coffin. It actually looked very real and she did have on a pageant gown and a tiara. I thought when I first saw it that it was faked because her facial shape did not look right. This was before I knew that they had removed her skull. That would very much explain why her face looked "off". I have no way of knowing if the photo was real or not, but if not, they did a good job with the fake! I will look around and see if I can find a link to that photo.
 
  • #699
DeeDee, I'm sure the photo that I saw was not real, but NE did publish a so called photo of JB in her coffin. It actually looked very real and she did have on a pageant gown and a tiara. I thought when I first saw it that it was faked because her facial shape did not look right. This was before I knew that they had removed her skull. That would very much explain why her face looked "off". I have no way of knowing if the photo was real or not, but if not, they did a good job with the fake! I will look around and see if I can find a link to that photo.

Could that have been a photo of the little actress who played JB in the movie PMPT? I haven't watched it in a long time, so I don't remember if there were scenes portraying JB's funeral and that photo was a still from there. If you can find your link, post it and I'll watch the DVD again and let you know.
 
  • #700
Sorry, it was not NE, it was the Globe and if I did this right, you can see the photo here: It starts at 1:23.
Sorry, I don't know how to post the video where it just shows up here.

http://youtu.be/Nbo2DFTGRVI

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbo2DFTGRVI"][/ame]
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
138
Guests online
2,723
Total visitors
2,861

Forum statistics

Threads
632,083
Messages
18,621,804
Members
243,017
Latest member
thaines
Back
Top