JBR, PR and UMI

[DeeDee249]

It was in a police report.

Jackie Kennedy testified before the Warren Commission that she did not have any recollection whatsoever that she crawled onto the trunk of the presidential limousine when Jack's head was blown off.

I believe that it is disgraceful to mix theories, opinion, speculation and statements of fact together and to discuss Patsy's "undiagnosed mental illness" as a given, and simultaneously claim that no one is saying Patsy suffered from mental illness.

Why is that disgraceful? If you feel some speculate Patsy suffered from an undiagnosed mental illness, you are also speculating that she did not. That's the thing with an undiagnosed malady. No one can say for sure.
All we can do here on both sides is try to put together our theories, beliefs, opinions and what little facts we have (LE has said only about 10% of the evidence has been released to the public) and try to figure out what really happened that night. I see no disgrace there. We are all here to the same end. It has been said here she may have been suffering from mental illness, either a classifiable one or one that was the product of her cancer/treatments.
By the same token, people look at heinous crimes like this one (not limited to this one) and how many times have you heard or read that whoever did this had to be crazy. I've heard it in the Yates case, Susan Smith case. Whether temporary mental illness or not, in the Yates case as you mentioned, it was known. Had it not been known, it would have been no less speculated on and no less evident.

 

[MurriFlower]

I TAUGHT I TAW A PUDDY TAT. I DID I DID. I was walking through the park one rubber baby buggy bumpers

How ill does one have to be to get an appointment?

:crazy:

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Patsy, on one of their tv interviews actually mentions forgiveness. As I recall, she said that she and John had discussed the fact that the person who murdered JB could be forgiven. She may have even made this in the form of a question. I will find this footage and post asap. As for redemption, isn't that what comes after forgiveness? I think the Bible says that in order to be forgiven we must have confession and repentance. That's as far as I will take this post. Any further, to me, would be judging and I ain't gonna go there. :bang:

They actually questioned their minister as to whether or not murderers would be accepted into their church. Much more Christian than me! If someone had killed my child, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is whether they will be allowed in church..

 

[WHITEFANG]

Why is that disgraceful? If you feel some speculate Patsy suffered from an undiagnosed mental illness, you are also speculating that she did not. That's the thing with an undiagnosed malady. No one can say for sure.
All we can do here on both sides is try to put together our theories, beliefs, opinions and what little facts we have (LE has said only about 10% of the evidence has been released to the public) and try to figure out what really happened that night. I see no disgrace there. We are all here to the same end. It has been said here she may have been suffering from mental illness, either a classifiable one or one that was the product of her cancer/treatments.
By the same token, people look at heinous crimes like this one (not limited to this one) and how many times have you heard or read that whoever did this had to be crazy. I've heard it in the Yates case, Susan Smith case. Whether temporary mental illness or not, in the Yates case as you mentioned, it was known. Had it not been known, it would have been no less speculated on and no less evident.

I am not stating Patsy did not have mental illness. I am saying no one can say that she did based on publicly available facts. To do so is wrong, immoral, unethical and cruel. It is disgraceful.

 

[WHITEFANG]

They actually questioned their minister as to whether or not murderers would be accepted into their church. Much more Christian than me! If someone had killed my child, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is whether they will be allowed in church..

Repentant murderers are in heaven having a ball as we speak.

Remember, he told a thief, you will be with me today in paradise.

And for those who murdered him, he asked that they be forgiven. They didn't comprehend what they had just done.

 

[WHITEFANG]

They actually questioned their minister as to whether or not murderers would be accepted into their church. Much more Christian than me! If someone had killed my child, the last thing I'm going to be worried about is whether they will be allowed in church..

Helllloooooo!!

She must be out to lunch!

That's kind of the point that we're trying to make, Fang: she wasn't diagnosed because she was never treated. Because all too often, those close to the situation are either unaware of the warning signs or in willful denial, chalking it up to mere eccentricities of personality. They don't realize the problem until it's too late. That's what beck is saying and what I'm trying to say. My point is not that she even necessarily had a mental disorder. My point is that if she DID, nobody bothered to do anything about it.

Dealing with a family member with mental illness is often times akin to dealing with an alcoholic or drug addict. The familial world revolves around that person's wants and needs. It's a bit like being caught up in an eddy. You are so caught up in trying to keep your head above water that you have no time to stop and determine the source of the swirling. You just deal with what's tossed at you from moment to moment. You deal with confusion and hurt and guilt. Are you doing something to make the person act this way? How can YOU fix it? And of course the person with the problem is urging you to have these feelings. And the swirling goes on and on. It's not until you are out of that chaos and have sorted your own feelings that you can truly look back and say, "yes, there was a definite problem there."

Dealing with someone with a mental disorder is not like dealing with someone with a broken arm. You can see the broken arm. You can see how it incapacitates the person, and you have a pretty good idea how to help that person.

The material above is a fine example of the double-speak I reject. No one says she had a mental illness, but in the course of discussing her as the murderer of her own child, the implication (and more) is that she was difficult like an alcoholic, or a drug addict, etc.

And, let's get clear on this, folks, please. To refer to Patsy's undiagnosed mental illness is referring to her mental illness.

 

[MurriFlower]

Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
Helllloooooo!!

She must be out to lunch!

The material above is a fine example of the double-speak I reject. No one says she had a mental illness, but in the course of discussing her as the murderer of her own child, the implication (and more) is that she was difficult like an alcoholic, or a drug addict, etc.

And, let's get clear on this, folks, please. To refer to Patsy's undiagnosed mental illness is referring to her mental illness.

Not sure why my post was included in these examples WF? I never said she had UMI, quite the opposite in fact!

I absolutely agree that this 'opinion, supposing, guessing, implying' or whatever this cr@p is that RDI engages in is totally disgraceful. No wonder none of them believe this crime will be solved, they're having too much sport with the character assassination of her parents.

 

[joeskidbeck]

No one on this board is assasinating Patsy's character. We believe that a Ramsey family member accidentally harmed this child. If we were assasinating her character it would be quite the opposite of what we say here! We have all stated this time and time again and it's starting to look like you guys don't want to hear what we have to say, no matter what it is. I do not believe that my theory is too far fetched. I also believe that the IDI's theories are not too far fetched. I just don't believe that the dna is enough to claim an intruder murdered her. If there were other evidence that someone else was in that home, I would believe as you guys do.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Not sure why my post was included in these examples WF? I never said she had UMI, quite the opposite in fact!

I absolutely agree that this 'opinion, supposing, guessing, implying' or whatever this cr@p is that RDI engages in is totally disgraceful. No wonder none of them believe this crime will be solved, they're having too much sport with the character assassination of her parents.

sorry. accidental.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

No one on this board is assasinating Patsy's character. We believe that a Ramsey family member accidentally harmed this child. If we were assasinating her character it would be quite the opposite of what we say here! We have all stated this time and time again and it's starting to look like you guys don't want to hear what we have to say, no matter what it is. I do not believe that my theory is too far fetched. I also believe that the IDI's theories are not too far fetched. I just don't believe that the dna is enough to claim an intruder murdered her. If there were other evidence that someone else was in that home, I would believe as you guys do.

Yeah, I think we are giving her lots of leeway, actually. If you want to see character assassination, go over to the Haleigh Cummings thread and read all the posts hell-bent on pinning HC's death/disappearance on her father despite letters and statements that implicate others but not him.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Yeah, I think we are giving her lots of leeway, actually.

put your mom's name everywhere you see Patsy's.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Yeah, I think we are giving her lots of leeway, actually. If you want to see character assassination, go over to the Haleigh Cummings thread and read all the posts hell-bent on pinning HC's death/disappearance on her father despite letters and statements that implicate others but not him.

leeway? it is wonderful of you to be so generous. i have seen an inordinate amount of character assassination right here. but thanks anyway. let's review the leeway you've given her, shall we?

 

[WHITEFANG]

List what you know about Patsy.



Start here.




List what you believe.




Show examples of the leeway, please, right here would be fine. Thanks.




I am not stating Patsy did not have mental illness. I am saying no one can say that she did based on publicly available facts. To do so is wrong, immoral, unethical and cruel. It is disgraceful. FANGS

 

[OneLove]

I am not stating Patsy did not have mental illness. I am saying no one can say that she did based on publicly available facts. To do so is wrong, immoral, unethical and cruel. It is disgraceful. FANGS

Is to say that she MIGHT have had a mental illness, based on publicly available facts, also wrong, immoral, unethical, and cruel?

Well, I'll concede cruel right up front, because it will always feel cruel to the loved ones who are mortified at the possibility of mental illness, regardless of the cause. Fortunately, not every family views traumatic stress and mental illness as "mortifying".

Btw, what I find disgraceful is family members NOT getting a loved one help when they are obviously under great strain. But that's just me, and I am entitled to my own standards of disgraceful.
:sunshine:

 

[BBB167893]

I believe that it is disgraceful to mix theories, opinion, speculation and statements of fact together and to discuss Patsy's "undiagnosed mental illness" as a given, and simultaneously claim that no one is saying Patsy suffered from mental illness.

WHO's taking it as a given?

 

[BBB167893]

How do we know it didn't? SD

Well, that's why I asked how many people did she kill after this tragedy. F

I know, and it wasn't appreciated. Look, IF I'm right (and that's one big if), we don't know what kind of treatment she underwent later on or what stimuli she weaned herself off from. Not to mention that JR was around a whole lot more. (Don't ANYBODY take that the wrong way!)

Just because a person's mind has broken doesn't mean they become like the stereotype of a drooling, laughing maniac. SD

Who says it does? F

No one, but that seems to be the implication. That was a big point of me starting this thread: the mentally disturbed aren't as easy to spot as we think.

Mental breakdowns manifest themselves in many ways. Not to mention the fact that she seemed pretty heavily medicated for the next ten years. SD

Not always.
Opinion.
And what if she was medicated? What does that mean? F

Fang, you watch her interviews and tell me it's just my opinion that she was heavily medicated. And as for what it means if she was medicated, maybe nothing. But maybe it was her way of keeping under control.

For those who have had a child murdered in their homes while they slept, please tell us about your experience. F

Your humor eludes me.

 

[BBB167893]

No wonder none of them believe this crime will be solved, they're having too much sport with the character assassination of her parents.

Please don't waste my time with that nonsense.

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah, I think we are giving her lots of leeway, actually.

put your mom's name everywhere you see Patsy's.

And you say WE'RE disgusting?!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

No one on this board is assasinating Patsy's character. We believe that a Ramsey family member accidentally harmed this child. If we were assasinating her character it would be quite the opposite of what we say here! We have all stated this time and time again and it's starting to look like you guys don't want to hear what we have to say, no matter what it is. I do not believe that my theory is too far fetched. I also believe that the IDI's theories are not too far fetched. I just don't believe that the dna is enough to claim an intruder murdered her. If there were other evidence that someone else was in that home, I would believe as you guys do.

Now thats quite the mirror, to take what we all know to be fact and still derive this conclusion.

Strangulation: no accident. She was killed by asphyxiation, don't take my word for it, thats what the autopsy says. Deadly force was used on JBR. All the information you need is petechial hemorraging and a ligature weapon still embedded.

Headbash: no accident. we already KNOW deadly force was being used on JBR, therefore the headbash was not an accident. Are you going to be strangled to death on the same day you suffer an accidental skull fracture? Absurd, is it not? Now you're getting it.

Ransom note: no accident, written by a ransom note writer. One who would write a ransom note that depicts a decapitated child. RDI can't prove it was necessary in a coverup.

Broken paintbrush: no accident, RDI has no reason for the paintbrush to be broken, or the paintbrush to be used at all.

RDI has two (2) accidents that night. One, the headbash. Two, the accidental strangulation that was supposed to just be staging. Given that the coroner stated the cause of death as asphyxiation by strangulation, its somewhat strange that this 'accident' theory even exists.

 

[BOESP]

Now thats quite the mirror, to take what we all know to be fact and still derive this conclusion.

Strangulation: no accident. She was killed by asphyxiation, don't take my word for it, thats what the autopsy says. Deadly force was used on JBR. All the information you need is petechial hemorraging and a ligature weapon still embedded.

Headbash: no accident. we already KNOW deadly force was being used on JBR, therefore the headbash was not an accident. Are you going to be strangled to death on the same day you suffer an accidental skull fracture? Absurd, is it not? Now you're getting it.

Ransom note: no accident, written by a ransom note writer. One who would write a ransom note that depicts a decapitated child. RDI can't prove it was necessary in a coverup.

Broken paintbrush: no accident, RDI has no reason for the paintbrush to be broken, or the paintbrush to be used at all.

RDI has two (2) accidents that night. One, the headbash. Two, the accidental strangulation that was supposed to just be staging. Given that the coroner stated the cause of death as asphyxiation by strangulation, its somewhat strange that this 'accident' theory even exists.

For the 99th time: cause of death, asphyxiation by ligature strangulation with associated head trauma, according to the autopsy.

Headbash: no accident. That is your opinion that it was "no accident." My opinion is it very well could have been accidental, especially since one or more on-the-scene investigators stated they believe it was accidental. My opinion is that, based on physics, her head struck an object, not vice versa.

A majority of experts agree that Patsy can not be eliminated as the ransom note writer and several of those believe she did write it.