JBR, PR and UMI

  • #621
The only abuse I can think of is sexual abuse. Patsy and her sisters were placed on pedestals by both parents...perfection being a priority.

We know Nedra groomed her daughters to be beauty queens, and both parents expected their daughters to marry well.

One gets to wondering what went wrong with Pam. She was once a beautiful woman (IMO prettier than Patsy) but ended up gaining lots of weight and never marrying. She never became a professional, instead choosing to work at a department store. Something very wrong with this picture.

This is the idea I have of Pam.


With Pam I think she enjoyed her job as it gave her power and made her a source of advice to a wealthier clientele. Department store make up is not cheap and most of the women working in those places are somewhat snotty. The average bargain hunting shopper doesn't even stop at those counters. They are often paid on commission and I'm sure if she had an established client list of people she made pretty good money. I'm sure Nedra promoted her to her friends despite her not approving of Pam not doing more with her life. She got fat like most women do with a healthy dose of self loathing and possibly birth control pills started it, she turned to food for emotional comfort. She couldn't compete with Patsy and I'm sure Nedra played the two of them against each other with verbal digs and such. Pam was less adventurous than Patsy and shyer. She had a harder time relating to people and her job made her feel competent and in charge something her relationship with her mother tended to strip her of. I can see Nedra saying something like why aren't you more outgoing like your sister Patsy is. Go out and find yourself a good man like John. You won't find him here sitting around the house. She may have even fixed Pam up with sons of friends for dates when she was younger. She was probably still waiting for her "Prince Charming" and read Harlequin Romances. She could find sex if she needed it but was too unsure of herself to "land" anything else but someone else who was just as insecure. She was smart enough to not settle for that kinda of codependency but felt powerless to be more assertive.
 
  • #622
Frigga, thank you very much.

Sunni and Frigga, sorry to hear about your friends abuse, it reaffirms that this type of situation, though not the norm (I mean what is the norm, in abuse anyway. I can't figure that one out) does happen. Not that I need to remind myself.

Sunni, I know exactly how you feel about BR. As I move forward in my new theory, I do find myself looking back at BR. He is one of the most confounding parts of this whole thing. Just what was his involvement? What did he know? He is the key I believe, no matter whose theory is right. Just what is BR hiding????

Cathy, I see PP as more dysfunctional (I could be wrong, I would be in good company).

Eleven, thank you for what you do for children. Also for your opinion on what most would call and antiquated theory and what is to others a/an reality.

Freud, didn't have that opinion in the beginning, he changed it to suit the popular thoughts of the time (mens thoughts). The idea that all mothers of molested children are too blame and not the molesting fathers is insane. I am not a buyer of that belief. However, it does fit some cases of molestation and if you would like, my sister and I to share our story with you, feel free to ask. Maybe, you'll learn that like me, you don't know everything.. Keep up the good works and be blessed Eleven, I am.
 
  • #623
You are right about one thing. The abuser does ultimately make the decision to abuse and no one else. Then surely you know that most abusers come from an abusive background and many have deep psychological issues.

Help me understand how a boy of 10, who had been molested for 6 years, should be blamed for his psychotic break, when he raped his nephew and vandalized a school. You cannot ignore, that abuse leads to more abuse and even worse psychotic episodes and rage crimes.

Lets look at Shirley Ardell Mason (Sybil), who was treated for multiple personality disorder (now known as dissociative identity disorder) with reportedly up to 16 co-existing personalities. Mason suffered from the condition as a result of severe sexual abuse at the hands of her mother, it was believed that she was schizophrenic. This all took place with her father still in the home and he did nothing. Allowing it to happen. Why would you not find him just as responsible as the mother.

How about this one? On July 16th, Jonathan Richardson showed up at the hospital with his girlfriend’s 4-year-old daughter, Teghan Skiba, and claimed the child had fallen off the bed. The law got involved once doctors discovered Teghan had numerous bruises, human bite marks, cuts, severe head trauma and signs of sexual abuse. Teghan held on for a few days, but the injuries were too severe. over the course of several days, Jonathan tortured, beat and raped the child in the barn they called home. Teghan’s mother, Helen Reyes, recently decided to shack up with Jonathan in the barn behind his grandparents’ home. The barn was equipped with air conditioning, but lacked a bathroom and running water. Jonathan and Teghan shared an air mattress on the floor. Jonathan and Helen had been dating for about six months – just long enough for Helen to feel comfortable leaving her child alone with the man in a "fudging" barn while she took off for New Mexico to train for the Army Reserve. She felt comfortable leaving her child alone with a man who she herself is reportedly scared of. Tell me the mother didn't share blame and allow this to happen.

Or how about this... JBR, was being molested. Had been to the doctors numerous times, her mother had to of known. What did she do to stop it or protect her child? Which is what this thread and my posts are all about. Her mother was either doing it or allowed it to continue. I don't have to explain this theory the facts speak for themselves.
 
  • #624
Some mothers don't want to know, even when they KNOW. In my own family, a cousin's child was abused by her pediatrician when she was a little girl (she is an adult now, thankfully on the right track after years of therapy and battling anorexia and substance abuse). She TOLD her mother every time it happened, but her mother told her to stop lying. The mother never questioned why the pediatrician would ask her to wait in the waiting room when he examined her little girl, yet allowed her in the examining room when her son was being examined. That generation of women (my generation) never questioned that type of authority. Nowadays, a mom would be right on top of it-hopefully.
My cousin and her daughter have been estranged for years, after the daughter confronted her in the presence of her therapists years later. She'll never understand why she wasn't believed and why she wasn't protected by he one person who should have protected her.
 
  • #625
Thank you for sharing that DD, again it reaffirms my opinion in this situation. There is no cookie cutter case of abuse. We simply cannot say, that all abusers are abusers because he/she made the choice to abuse. I feel that we must first look at what causes an abuser to do the things he/she does. Until we know and understand what leads an abuser to harm another, we can't fix it now or later. Sometimes an abuser is a product of an environment, or say severe abuse themselves. Anyone who counsels the abused surely understands the effects of prolonged abuse on the psyche of these individuals. We are in fact a product of our environment.

I do leave room for those that are just evil and mean from birth, those people do exist and like all abusers, need to be dealt with. Make no mistake, I do not condone what abusers do and I don't make excuses for them. I simply understand that some abusers are victims themselves.
 
  • #626
There are so many different ways for a child to be abused and so many different people in the childs life who are the perps. As in my nephew's case, he was afraid to tell his mom because the abuser had threatened to kill her if he told. For God's sake, he was four years old. He believed this 🤬🤬🤬 would kill his mother. The bad part is he hid the abuse from his mom so well that she had no idea. Believe me, this is one mother, that had she known, she would have killed the molester herself. End of molester. In our case, it worked out the best way it could have. No the creep isn't in jail (last I heard, anyway). I hope that he is. But in our case it took the child being close to 600 miles away from the molester to tell someone he loved what had happened. No, all stories aren't the same and all mothers are not to blame. Personally, I believe that Patsy thought JB was being abused and that night she got her proof, whoever it was. That's what brought about the rest of the story.
 
  • #627
Alright, I should have the rest of my profiles done and up by tonight. Slow rainy day here and dang cold.....
 
  • #628
Dave,

Let me start by saying both you and your mother are smart cookies.

I wish she were here to hear you say that, Agatha.

Like you, I feel that PR is more mentally ill then (evil) Psycho.

I think it's helpful to distinguish between the two.

I hope your ready for this, cause if you haven't figured it out yet, I can be long winded. I'm going to give you a bunch of information, and if you have questions or need me to elaborate on something let me know......

Let's start with Nedra and the tail of One Flew Over the Coo Coo's Nest.....

Verbal abuse is perhaps the most common form of abuse that exists. Lyrics in the 1989 hit song, “If I Could Turn Back Time,” Cher succinctly sings, “ . . words are like weapons, they wound sometimes.” In more severe cases, not just words can inflict harm, but being on the receiving end of total silence can be just as damaging.

Inside the Mind of an Abuser


Abusers usually do not have insight into the significance of their problem. Rage and intimidation naturally occurs out of a deep psychological sense of entitlement which is tied in with having narcissistic traits. These people truly believe that others, in particular those that are intimately closest, must act the way they want them to otherwise there will be consequences. Typically, the underlying attitude develops as a response to their upbringing which involves family dysfunction.

Childhood experiences of growing up with abusive parents, alcoholic or drug addicted parents can have a negative life-long effect if not thoroughly processed. The abuser may have been abused or was traumatized watching events in the home. There is an emotional numbing that emerges out of the abusers' experiences that prevents them from getting closure on their history. Instead of letting go of past events, they permeate deep in the mind and often manifest into abusive behavior towards those closest to them.

Those who are good at being a “control freak” can present themselves as being very kind and gentle individuals. They have an uncanny ability to create a pleasing facade that gains respect from people in the community. However, once in the security of an intimate relationship, the facade diminishes and true colors start to shine.

Mood fluctuations within the abuser causes chaos in the mind of the victim. One moment things are wonderful, then suddenly, often without warning, a verbal assault is launched toward the victim or absolute silence. Living with the unpredictable nature of an abuser can create anxiety and panic attacks in the victim. What's worse is when the abuser attempts to justify what was said or done and turns things around to make the victim feel guilty.

Often these emotional hijackers tend to blame their actions on others or a situation (e.g. bad day at work) instead of owning their actions. This is often the case in which the abusers may suffer from depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality, and other psychological symptoms.

Personality Characteristics of Abusers

Although this list is not complete, the following are some of the most common characteristics that abusers exhibit:

They use power and control as a way to alter their environment.

Manipulation through words and action occurs naturally.

Their propensity toward believing they are always right is strong.

They were abused or “spoiled rotten” as a child.

They are not cognizant of the “dark side” of their personality.

Their belief in having entitlements is very strong.

Poor impulse control.

Aggressive style of relating to people and situations.

Self-centered, rigid and lack the ability to see things from another's perspective.

Highly insecure, defensive and feel inferior.

Abusers have a narcissistic personality, meaning “it is all about them”. They lack insight and insensitivity to understand the damage they inflict on others. They feel justified by what they say and do and it takes intense efforts on the behalf of others to try to get them to understand they need help.

Abuse is a choice. If no one speaks out against them, and children are involved, then the cycle of abuse will continue to spin out of control. Getting an abuser to change can't happen unless he wants to change.


Manifestations of emotional abuse can deepen to include: anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, drug or alcohol dependency and eating disorders. In time, tension in the home becomes unbearable. Life with a person who inflicts emotional abuse affects the nerves and this has a ripple effect on children, who are exceedingly intuitive. These learned skills can ultimately cause them to become an abuser or to become a victim.

Nedra, was a controller "You will do it". I think ole Neddie, was still running the show from her parlor in Atlanta. I also think all the P's, were totally mind freaked by their mother.

This is a start on my Nedra, bio...lol... If you have questions please ask. If you need more info on her, I'm glad to give it.

I'll give you Don, PR and JR later today, as its 2:11 am here and I need some sleep. Hope I gave you what you were looking for.

I don't know WHAT I'm looking for, Agatha. But I never turn down good advice.
 
  • #629
I was thinking about something re this thread.
Okay I am no PDI but MAYBE the reason why she decided to cover for JDI (if JDI) is that she suffered from MSBP?(I think she loved the attention she got after the murder.... I am thinking of JB's funeral)

Dr. Rusty Morris said the same thing, maddy. You're not alone.

I am not saying by this that she caused JB any pain or something,not thinking of that kind of MSBP.I only mean the getting attention part.

Right. People who hear about MSBP assume that it involves harming the child. That's the most well-known kind of MSBP, because it gets the most coverage, but it's not the only kind. In fact, it's the minority. The disease manifests as using someone else to get attention in different ways.

JB got a lot of attention because of the pageants,maybe PR missed that.
Just speculating here.

For all I know, maddy, you may have just nailed it.
 
  • #630
Has anyone ever thought that John was the 'abuser' and Patsy was the victim. Often times the person who was abused as a child feels unworthy of true love and enters an abusive relationship. This is not necessarily a physical abuse, but emotional abuse. Remember Patsy complaining how much John travelled, or about the blond biotech down the street that wouldn't get John.

I've thought about it, Sunnie. And it may be part and parcel to the whole dynamic. As someone once said, "girls marry their fathers."
 
  • #631
One gets to wondering what went wrong with Pam. She was once a beautiful woman (IMO prettier than Patsy) but ended up gaining lots of weight and never marrying. She never became a professional, instead choosing to work at a department store. Something very wrong with this picture.

My brother pointed that one out to me. He said, "Guv, haven't you ever wondered why Pam never got married, never had kids and let her looks go to hell?"
 
  • #632
Dave, this: "girls marry their fathers." and this: "Guv, haven't you ever wondered why Pam never got married, never had kids and let her looks go to hell?"

Wow, these statements are right on the money and I have to give Pam credit here. At least she had more sense than to marry a man like her father. Patsy, not so much.
 
  • #633
The sad part is my cousin is not a bad person. She is a good person, who just couldn't accept that someone like that (her own kids' doctor) would sexually abuse one of his patients. And there are a lot of women like her. I think it is because no one wants to believe that they would actually choose a doctor like that, that somehow they should "know". But the thing is, your child is trying to TELL you- so that you KNOW.
This is NOT the same as a parent being AWARE of sexual abuse going on in the family and doing nothing. THOSE parents are as guilty as the abuser, IMO.
 
  • #634
After hearing that her sister Patsy had stage IV cancer, Pam chose to get a complete hysterectomy. She would never be able to have children.
 
  • #635
ty Agatha C for posting the info re incest dynamic. I've not read much, in a cohesive form about it, so the generalities that you outlined and suggested operated within the P family are very interesting.
 
  • #636
Sorry folks, I promised something and then didn't deliver by my own deadline. Long night with a child that needed both my arms and my mind. Smaller posts were easier. However, I will deliver today (fingers crossed)..... Again sorry for not keeping my word...
 
  • #637
Okay, before we start, this is just an opinion/theory based on what I’ve read, what I have heard on television interviews, and the overall body language. I am not saying all women are victims and all men are their abusers, this is just my opinion of this family’s dynamics.

Innocent Father or General of Psychological Warfare…….

(IMO) JR gives no outward appearance of being abused as a child. This does not mean it didn’t happen, I just don’t think so. However, he does show signs of disrespect for women. This is shown in the affair he had on his wife and the using of the woman he cheated with. Let’s cover this while we’re here, I don’t think it was just one affair, with just one wife. In fact, I’m of the belief that his long absence on Christmas, was not solely for plane maintenance (I’ll cover this when I get to PR).

JR exhibits classic traits of a successful, powerful and Narcissistic man. Unlike PR, his abusive ways are self taught. I believe he had a God complex, his need to be on top, to be better than and in control of everything and everybody, an ego maniac and a covert- aggressive with an agenda. JR is a manipulator of people without conscience.

Manipulative people have a strong need to be in control. This may derive from underlying feelings of insecurity on their part, although they often compensate for these feelings with a show of strong self-confidence. Even though they may deny it, their motives are self-serving, and they pursue their aims regardless of the cost to other people. They have a strong need to feel superior and powerful in their relationships - and they find people who will validate these feelings by going along with their attempts at manipulation. They see power as finite. If you exert power over them, they will retaliate in order to gain back the control they feel they are losing. They cannot understand the idea that everyone can feel empowered or that everyone can gain. When they are not in control of themselves and over other people - they feel threatened. They have difficulty in showing vulnerable emotions because it might suggest they are not in control.

Here is a list of the Manipulators tools

Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressive, intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive favorite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Lying – It's often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he's doing it.

Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don't bear out somebody's story. But there are also times when you don't know you've been deceived until it's too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying' omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep's clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.

Seduction – Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty. Covert-aggressive are also particularly aware that people who are to some extent emotionally needy and dependent want approval, reassurance, and a sense of being valued and needed more than anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be a manipulator's ticket to incredible power over others. Shady "gurus" like Jim Jones and David Koresh seemed to have refined this tactic to an art. In the story of Al and Don, Al is the consummate seducer. He melts any resistance you might have to giving him your loyalty and confidence. He does this by giving you what he knows you need most. He knows you want to feel valued and important. So, he often tells you that you are. You don't find out how unimportant you really are to him until you turn out to be in his way.

Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressive are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they're expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they've done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It's a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This "Who... Me?" tactic is a way of "playing innocent," and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It's also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do.

So, now that we know how he ticks, let us explore his psychological warfare against his wife. I believe three things kicked off this war, the death of Beth, PR’s cancer (more specific… her mental condition afterward), and the affairs JR began to have.

In 1996 JR, found himself on the top of the world. He had power, wealth and respect, and a mentally fragile wife, who thought to control “Him,” and she had to go. You might think, he would just divorce her, but no, she would get too much then and too much would be found out about him. He set out, to push her over the edge. This would allow him to keep control and power over the business (her family invested in and helped to build), the money and the children. Heck, absolutely everything and she would be locked away and out of the way.

Psychological Warfare

Mental abuse, psychological abuse or psychological warfare, it all means the same; they are an intentional act of attempting to hurt another person's mental state. The weapons become much more intense and sadly, often involve the children. Some examples are: Manipulating the children into believing that the other partner is no good or does not care about the children (Parental Alienation Syndrome), poisoning the children's minds into believing bad things about the other parent; This is where JB, comes in, but we will cover that when I get to PR profile later today.

The thing about Psychological warfare is that its subtle so subtle that no one including the one being mind freaked, knows it’s happening. One of the most difficult things about identifying and leaving someone who is a psychological and emotional abuser is that the REALLY successful abusers are highly intelligent and hide their abuse incredibly well.

They may have shelves filled with psychology books; many are well-read and very well spoken. They know how to twist and manipulate language and people, they present an exterior of calm, rational self-control.

I think JR worked her bent mind until it snapped, and like Dan Broderick, he didn’t realize just how far he had gone until it was too late… Below is an expert from Betty Broderick Biography.

Was she a woman scorned, a modern day Cruella De Ville or an emotionally pummeled wife dropkicked over the edge of sanity by an emotionally manipulative husband deftly skilled at psychological warfare who antagonized his wife of 16 years into murdering him? I allowed the voices in my head to completely take over,"

There you have it, the three ingredients to the bomb that was PR, her mother, her father and her husband. JB, I believe was the fuse. PR’s profile is next (hopefully today).
 
  • #638
Wow, Agatha C, I wish I could hit the "thanks" button multiple times! Great post. I'll be looking for the next one. :-)
 
  • #639
Wow, Agatha C, I wish I could hit the "thanks" button multiple times! Great post. I'll be looking for the next one. :-)

Hi OneLove! Good to see you back! :dance:
 
  • #640

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